Help! Can't get us out of the negative cycle

[kindacrunchy]

My 6 yo son and I just plain clash. We have been in a negative cycle for a while. I have been trying desparately to get out of it but I am the only one putting forth an effort here. He starts pushing the buttons and I can only stay calm for so long.
I need to break this cycle cause it seriously sucks>
Help

[fritz]

A couple ideas:

Change the scenery--take a field trip (try a different park) to get out of the house. Hopefully the complete break in routine/location will short circuit his button pushing.

Try reading Playful Parenting by Lawrence Cohen to get some ideas for reconnecting through play. Get down on his level and let him direct the play for a while (15 -30 mins), see what happens.

[mama_mojo]

Have you tried passive wrestling? That helps DS and DH.

Or- try to give one day to saying yes to everything?

Or ignore everything "wrong" for a day?

Or find playful ways to handle discipline? For example, DS and DD1 like to be tackled on the couch, so when they keep demanding an impossible thing, I'll give them an ultimatum that they quit asking or I will have to tickle them. (This is consensual, not that scary kind) And, this tends to reset them.

Try to focus on reparations or fixing a mistake rather than assigning blame.

[foreverinbluejeans]

You are in charge of your buttons. It is your job as a mother, as an adult to control the situations between you and your son.

What have you been trying?

[Materfamilias]

Can you give some examples? It's kind of hard to tell what's going on...

[kindacrunchy]

I don't feel that I am in charge of my buttons. I'm very overwhelmed with life. My 6 yo is so much work and my 3 yo is so demanding of me. I feel that everything is out of control. I can't find a middle ground. When my oldest is cooperative, things flow well. When he is in a mood, watch out.He goes into fight mode so easily. His 3 yo brother does something "wrong" to him and he goes after him guns a blazin'. I interfere because I don't want him pummeling his brother and he starts FREAKING out! Kicking, hitting, pounding on doors, still trying to get to his brother. Or, everything I say to him is challenged. Tries to make an argument out of EVERYTHING. I have a REAL hard time with people giving me attitude. I can only take it so long before I give it back. Which I KNOW is not setting a great example. I try talking calmly, I try explaining, I try giving him alternatives, and he usually chooses the brute force method. I feel that the only way he will respond is when I yell. Because the gentle stuff isn't registering. I have tried teaching him how to calm himelf. Taking deep breaths, going into another room, but when he is mad, he won't have anything to do with it. I get to the point where I am drill sargeant. I hate it. I hate the way I feel. And sometimes I feel hate towards him because he is so dang challenging. I can't figure him out.
When he is at school, he is a dream. Why can't I have that at home? Why can't he treat his family with the same respect he gives his teacher and his classmates.
It does cycle though. They are times when all goes well and then something happens and it flips to all goes to hell. The latest is daylight savings time. Could we seriously still be adjusting to that?
I tried the shaking it up and changing the scenery and it took an hour to be able to leave the house because of the fighting between the boys and the attitude. I really didn't want to go anymore because it was so much work just to get every body in the van, buckled up, and not antagonizing.

[fritz]

I hear you. It sounds incredibly frustrating. But I'm wondering, after the trauma and stress of getting them into the van, how did things go? Were things okay after that (aside from your wanting to pull out your hair)? Or did all the stress at the start ruin the rest of the outing?

Have you looked into food sensitivities/allergies? Some mamas here have experienced night and day transformations in their kids when they eliminated dairy, or artificial dyes (red #40 is typically the worst offender), or gluten, or....

It's very common for kids to behave away from home b/c they don't feel completely safe or comfortable outside of their home comfort zone. Then they come home and they have to destress from holding it together all day long, and their behavior seems completely wild. It's because they know you'll love them no matter what, because they feel safe with you that they cut loose.

Have you read Playful Parenting by Lawrence Cohen? I'm almost done with it, and I've really picked up a lot of useful tactics from it (now to implement them more regularly!). It's all about reconnecting to our children through play (even when you don't really feel playful at the moment), the power dynamics of play, and helping our kids work through their issues through play.

The gentle discipline stuff can be so challenging b/c it definitely doesn't get instant results. It's totally long term--to preserve a close, affectionate relationship with our kids despite the many challenges they throw our way.

It sounds like you really need a break to refill your own cup. Maybe if you could manage to regularly recharge your own batteries, you'd have more energy/resources to help your oldest son learn better ways of expressing/controlling himself?

[LynnS6]

Gosh, that sounds like a challenging time for all of you.

Several thoughts, probably random:

First, developmentally, six is an "attitude" age. Does it help you to know that what he's doing is developmentally appropriate?

Also, he's expended a lot of energy to keep things together during school, and his reserves are spent after school. Is there a way you can set him up with something where he can recharge his batteries for 30-45 minutes right after school?

Our ds is an introvert, his sister is an extrovert and when he comes home from school, she's dying for a playmate, and he's dying for some down time. It creates a lot of conflict.

Several recommendations for books that might help:
1. The Challenging Child by Stanley Greenspan. It focuses on connection first, and then problem solving, and then consequences. I've used some of those ideas with our ds and dd, even though they're not technically as challenging as the kids in the book. So, while the book is designed for kids with 'issues', I think it can apply nicely to all kids. One thing it recommends is 30 minutes of 'floortime' with the child EVERY day where they direct the play. Ideally both parents in the home would do this.

2. Kids, Parents & Power Struggles by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. Although power struggles is in the title, it's an excellent overall parenting book.

3. The 5 Love Languages of Children -- what are your son's ways of feeling loved? If there's a mismatch between what you are doing to express love (based on your own love language) and how he wants it, that too can lead to disconnect. The 5 love languages are: Time/Attention, Words, Touch, Gifts, Acts of Service. For our ds, his love languages are: Time and Acts of Service. Dd's are: Words and Touch, and to a lesser extent Time. Mine are Acts of Service and Time. Dh's are Touch and Words. And yes, the disconnect between partners does lead to problems sometimes. Ah, and I just realized that ds and I have the same love languages and dh and dd do. No wonder I'm frustrated more by dd and dh than ds!

Finally, and maybe most importantly, when do YOU get to recharge? I'm a lousy parent when I can't recharge. It's taken me years, but I do need to consciously spend time to do this. I'm helped by the fact that I WOH, so I do get intellectual time every day. But I also need some social time, and it's taken me a while to be at peace with doing Bell Choir every Tuesday night, even though my kids don't like me going out again at night. OK, I'd also like to do choir and a book club, and I don't do those because then I'd be gone a lot more than one evening a week. But one evening a week, for an hour and a half, I'm not a mom, I'm not a professor, I'm just notes B and C (or A and B or D, G, E or whatever).

[Magella]

Originally Posted by kindacrunchy

My 6 yo son and I just plain clash. We have been in a negative cycle for a while. I have been trying desparately to get out of it but I am the only one putting forth an effort here. He starts pushing the buttons and I can only stay calm for so long.

Originally Posted by kindacrunchy

I don't feel that I am in charge of my buttons. I'm very overwhelmed with life.

Very gently, as a btdt mom, as the adult in this relationship you are, need to be, and can be in charge of your own buttons. I think that especially intense kids need parents to be extra calm, and that can be hard. But you can do it. You can't wait for him to put forth more effort or to change, because he needs your calm guidance in order to be able to do better. Because he is not responsible for your emotions and how you handle them.

He's putting forth the best effort he can. He's 6. Though he can't articulate it, I bet he'd much prefer to be getting along with you better. He'd do it if he could. He doesn't wake up in the morning planning to make the family miserable. As the adult, you are going to have to be the one putting forth what feels to you like most of the effort. At least for now. Because he's really young. Yes, he needs to learn to interact with the family in better ways. I'm not saying to let things go, or to not hold him accountable for his actions. I'm saying he has a lot to learn and he needs you to lead him calmly in learning to do better. He needs a predictable, patient, calm parent.

IME, a parent needs to care for herself so that she can be that calm, compassionate parent, so that she can provide the calm guidance her child needs. He can't care for you, you can't wait for him to change in order for you to handle your emotions in better ways--it's not up to him, it's up to you. There is an excellent book called Time Out For Parents: A Guide To Compassionate Parenting by Cheri Huber that is all about learning to take care of yourself --not always in big chunks like going out by yourself to a class (though that is a good thing), but also in little ways in little moments throughout the day--so that you can be a calm, compassionate parent

I also think it's helpful, when things get negative, to make time to interact with my child in a positive way, one-on-one. This is a time where we do something she chooses, and the only words to come out of my mouth are positive. This is a time to focus on the positive, to build trust, to connect. It helps us heal and maintain our relationship, so we can work together better. It doesn't have to be a long time, 10-20 minutes will do. The more days a week we can do this, the better. You are going to have to take the lead on changing the tone of your relationship.

And, when a family reaches a point where things feel negative a lot of the time and parents (or one parent) is really overwhelmed, and there's just so much stress, family therapy can help. A lot. It can be a really positive, wonderful thing. It can help you better identify what he needs and how best to help him. It can give you support that you need. Just something to keep in mind, I know it's a step no family wants to take and it's not an easy step to take.

[kindacrunchy]

I really need to unload now. First, I want to thank all of you for your kind responses. I have been battling with this for 3 years now. It ebbs and flows. But recently I realized that we are just not a happy family overall. We have happy times and fun times, but the overall feeling in the house is annoyance. My father passed away in October. Ending a 20 month battle with brain cancer. Now, my Dad and I had a strained relationship for a lot of years so that puts an awkward spin on the whole grieving process. I don't miss him because he was such a HUGE negative force on my life for so long. But, he was my Dad. I had been doing well with my temper while my husband was telecommuting from home 3 days per week. Actually, the whole house had a different atmosphere. He only telecommutes one day per week now. His commute to and from work is about 2 1/2 hours per day. He has been doing that commute for 12 years. It takes it's toll on someone. He went back to commuting 4 days per week, about one month after my dad passed away. He had no choice in the matter. Now, due to my Dad's death, I am now preoccupied in my head about mortality. Every little bump I find, I stress and go see the doctor. My doctor's nurse mentioned that it could be part of my grieving. I have not seen my therapist in months. She finally got back to me the other day. I've been trying to exercise, eat better, have girlfriend time, have hubby time, but for some reason it seems to only give temporary relief OR it all goes dormant for a while. I was all set to train for a 10K, and my back and knee were giving me troubles. So the exercise slacked off due to injury. One weekend I was having a lot of social time with my true friends and I had a meltdown because Aidan, my 6 yo, would say he was hungry and I asked for 10 minutes what he wanted and he never told me. When he doesn't eat well or sleep well, I stress. Because that is when he becomes a total bear. I feel if it is preventable then let's take care of it. It frustrates me to no end that he does not feed his body when he is hungry and it frustrates me more when he turns inot a bear because of it.
And then there is the sibling dynamic which I have no clue about. I even read "Siblings without Rivalry" and somehow we have them in their roles. The antagonizer and the victim. My 3 yo is still nursing and everytime he gets upset he "wants to NUUUUURRRRRse" and I'm over that. He still nurses through the night and I get crappy sleep. So, since his younger brother is hounding me to nurse all the time cause his big brother is picking on him, his big brother gets the heat. I try to explain, and talk them through, etc, etc,. But when it is then 10th time in the day. I'm over it. Lately, they have been getting along MUCH better and often times the younger one is causing the problem so my oldest does see me dealing with his brother over things. However, we do react more strongly to my oldest. My reason is because sometimes it is like he is out for blood and there is absolutely no stopping him. That is my biggest concern with im. When he is "wronged", he is going to right it, his way, which is hurtful. I'm not going to let him pummel his brother. In the heat of the moment, I can not get through to him. I have to physically restrain him sometimes and then he starts hitting and kicking at me. He has had a few very intense temper tantrums that have involved him hitting and kicking and just plain going into destructive mode which leads me to the consultation I had today.
I spoke with a therapist over the phone about my son. He asked a bunch of questions and told me that he is still attached to me however he has an element of detachment and a degree of negative attachment behavior. He has gotten to the point that he feels disliked and the only way he knows to reach out for contact is by negative behavior to get me to yell. He doesn't trust affection, that it is skin deep. He also went on to say that it sounds as if my son is stuckin his "terrible twos". That he was not able to go through them when he was two and is now in them and needs help getting out of them. Not by any of our doing. Things before he was three were wonderful. I wasn't an overwhelmed, anxious, stressed out, psychotic MOm until we moved, had a baby, his third birthday and my blood clots happened all within one month of each other. He was a piece of cake before then. So, he said the "terrible twos" part is not anything we did, it is just how he developed. So, he goes on to tell me that his program is 6 months of weekly phone consults and unlimited e-mail access for $225 per week! I can't afford that! I totally get the negative attachment or contact behavior. I've concluded that on my own. He does something, I freak out, that stresses him out, he acts out more, etc., etc.
I just don't know what to do with all of this. When he is antagonizing his brother, I can't let that go. What do I do? I really want to GD but I guess I don't know what to do. I think I have swung from permissive to authoritative. Which i'm sure just really makes things worse for him. When he goes after his brother, I definitely can't let that go. When he starts being physically combative, I can't let that go. But, what do I do? I talk and talk and talk to that kid but it when it is in the heat of the moment it all goes out the window. Eventually for both of us.
I have so much more to say but am afraid this is so long that no one is gonna read it")
Thank you, so much.
Karen

[fritz]

Hugs! You're dealing with a lot of stuff at once. You can do this! And without blowing $225 a week, either. =)

The root of the problem sounds like the disconnection between you and your DS1. If you make reconnecting with him a priority, fill up his love cup, get down on his level and play with him, try spending more one-on-one time with him, consistently (can you block out 10 minutes a day at the same time? How about 30 minutes once a week that is set in stone?), so he can depend on it, and really try to reconnect (preferably through play, as that's the best way to relate to little kids--follow the giggles!), you should see a shift in his behavior away from negative attention-seeking stuff. And you can stop talking so much, since that isn't working for him.

For a more direct approach: Try playing with action figures and putting on a little play. Have one of the dolls freak out like DS1 but in an exaggerated, silly way (not in a mean spirited teasing way). Have the other doll react. Then do it again, but this time have the other doll brainstorm some other ways of dealing with being upset. Play around with the sibling dynamics, play around with parent and child dyanamics. If he gets interested enough to participate and come up with his own dialogue, great! Go with it. Let him play it out. You'll learn a lot about how he sees things and how he's really feeling.

The more time you spend really connecting with your son (through play will be most effective), the less time/energy you'll have to waste on yelling/talking/getting upset. Read Playful Parenting--it's got tons of real life examples of lots of different types of games you can play that help parents and children reconnect. There's lots of little sections so it's easy to read in 2 minute increments. I actually liked pausing between sections so I could let the ideas "marinate" in my brain.

[LynnS6]

It sounds like things are really tough for you, and that you are very much grieving your father, even if he wasn't the dad you really wanted him to be.

I would run, not walk, away from that guy who wanted to charge you $225 a week (and seemed to be diagnosing you and your son over the phone?). BUT I would seek out some mental health services for YOU. You sound depressed, and possibly anxious, but obviously, you need a professional to really determine this for you.

You really do need to treat yourself first - both to find out how much of the disconnection is on your side and to give you strength to deal with your challenging son.

Can you wean your 3 year old? Reduce him to morning and evening only? That sounds like it's taking its toll on you and the short term stress of weaning might be worth the long term gain.

I am going to second my recommendation for "The Challenging Child" by Stanley Greenspan. Get it, read it and try it out. It will help you connect with your son. This book shares many things in common with Playful Parenting in terms of connection, but it also moves on to problem-solving.

Eating: Have you read: "Child of Mine: Feeding with Love and Good Sense"? Your job is to provide food, his job is to eat. This is a power struggle that he will always win. When my kids do the "I'm hungry, but nothing you're offering me is what I want to eat....." trick, I offer them two things and tell them, if they refuse, that I'll be happy to fix them something else IF they think of it. If they whine, they need to go do that somewhere else.

You might also think about hypoglycemia with him. I have tendencies this way, and so do my kids, but it's not that bad. A friend of mine has a daughter who can go from not hungry-hungry-can't eat because my stomach is cramping in about 10 minutes. Finding the window of opportunity to get her to eat has been a real challenge.

OK, dd has just melted down, need to go.

[Magella]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

It sounds like things are really tough for you, and that you are very much grieving your father, even if he wasn't the dad you really wanted him to be.

I would run, not walk, away from that guy who wanted to charge you $225 a week (and seemed to be diagnosing you and your son over the phone?). BUT I would seek out some mental health services for YOU. You sound depressed, and possibly anxious, but obviously, you need a professional to really determine this for you.

You really do need to treat yourself first - both to find out how much of the disconnection is on your side and to give you strength to deal with your challenging son.

I agree. You will have a better time dealing with and helping your son if you are taken care of first. It's like the flight attendant tells you: put on your own oxygen mask first, then your child's. You can't help your child if you pass out from not getting enough oxygen.

Also, I absolutely would not have someone diagnose my child and recommend a plan of action for my child based on a conversation over the phone. A therapist needs to meet and talk with your child, and to spend time talking with you as well, in order to get a reasonably accurate feel for what's going on. Phone support has serious limitations (and really, that price is outrageous).

I am going to second my recommendation for "The Challenging Child" by Stanley Greenspan. Get it, read it and try it out. It will help you connect with your son. This book shares many things in common with Playful Parenting in terms of connection, but it also moves on to problem-solving.

This is a great book. I loved the emphasis on connection. And while connection isn't going to cure everything, it can help you build a good foundation to work with.

I'm so sorry you're going through so much.

[Music-mommy]

HI there,

I am interested in your post because my daughter is displaying the same sort of behavior and at times I really have to remind myself that i love her. She pushes all of my buttons and when I am not well emotionally , it gets worse and worse.

I am going to say that instead of reading parenting books you should read Ekhart Tolle's "new earth" or listen to his audio book "Living a Life of Inner Peace".

Perhaps spend some time really thinking about what it is that YOU want to do, other than just girl time, or socializing, but finding something that really fills your soul, whether it's singing in a choir, pottery, art, photography, doing Yoga, whatever it is. You need to find your own happiness and if that becomes more clear, the rest will fall into place.

For me, I get terribly depressed when I am a mom 100% of the time. I decided a number of years ago that I was depressed and that dedicating my entire life to parenting, and being a wife was not for me and did not fill my cup.

The Ekhart Tolle books are really great because the force you to focus on living in the moment. Like you say there are many things that give us temporary happiness, ie things like shopping, going out with friends, buying things, etc, but they don't fill our souls. If you feel your soul is fed, then you will be happy. But to do that you need to find out what it is that feeds your soul... it is different for each person. What are your passions, what do you love doing? Even if it's something from childhood, ie you liked pottery or something, go discover that.

He also talks about "painbodies" which are basically your buttons. If your child pushes your buttons, then you need to really reflect on why those things really affect you. They are most likely things and issues from your childhood that are unresolved. For me it is lack of respect. When my child acts like she is disrespectful, I feel a rage coming up. I have to really think about it, it comes from my issues, my insecurities, and my fear of raising a "spoiled brat". If I can then remember she is acting that way because she is hungry, tired or just wants my attention, it diffuses itself, but it's not always easy to do this and I don't always do it right.

Anyhow, I hope this helps. I find that when my daughter gets more defiant and more difficult, I usually have to look back to myself and see how I have changed, and then I see how she is reacting to that change. When I am feeling good, happy, content, things tend to work out. When I am not, it all hits the fan!

i am in that place right now, and struggling with my daughters fighting all the time, but I also am very tired, and feel emotionally drained....

I think i am going to read some books to reconnect and remind myself what i need to do.

I hope this helps!
Dominique

[kindacrunchy]

Music-mommy: You bring up a ver valid point. When I became pregnant with my oldest I was just starting my career as a wildlife biologist. THAT was my passion. However, I left it to raise my child. I recently went out in the field with a friend of mine hoping it would awaken a part of me that has been stagnant for so long and was very disappointed. It was nice to see her and be out there, but it just didn't do anything for me. That put me ina funk for a few weeks. So, now, I need to find my new passion.