Oprah today on Motherhood

[2bluefish]

Did anybody watch Oprah today? I thought I was going to like it at first, but I just ended up feeling bothered. Yeah, motherhood is hard, and it may be hard to be prepared for it. But hearing these mothers go on and on with complaints and how they had lost themselves... It just felt immature. I just wanted to say "put on your big girl panties". What did you think?

[CHoney]

It wasn't what I was hoping for either. I thought it would be more about how we can help each other as mothers and not focus on the negative so much. I guess it was nice to hear other mom's stories, but I felt they really complained too much. And I was a perturbed by the story of the mother who let her baby cry while her and her husband drank wine. Maybe that works for some people, but I wouldn't be able to enjoy my wine if my LO was crying. :

[Agatha_Ann]

Originally Posted by CHoney

It wasn't what I was hoping for either. I thought it would be more about how we can help each other as mothers and not focus on the negative so much. I guess it was nice to hear other mom's stories, but I felt they really complained too much. And I was a perturbed by the story of the mother who let her baby cry while her and her husband drank wine. Maybe that works for some people, but I wouldn't be able to enjoy my wine if my LO was crying. :

I started watching this on my DVR and heard that woman describe her baby crying in the crib while they enjoyed their wine...and she was laughing about it! How selfish! And they think its funny?? : I did tell my husband though, I bet they will be talking about this on MDC lol!

Cheryl Hines is annoying me talking about how hard it all is and how her and her husband can never go out when she introduced her fulltime nanny

I know being a mom is hard, very hard, but how rewarding it is! I love being a mother and I am very fulfilled by taking care of my family. I felt like this show implied that women who are completely happy being mothers are lying...

I did like the numerous references to breastfeeding though- glamorous or not

[loitering]

I thought it was a great episode, and I didn't feel that anyone was whining. I laughed a lot too.

[redsfree]

yeah, that show was soooo negative. i mean, sure we all have our difficulties/challenges with motherhood, and we do need to discuss these things more openly and support each other, BUT...that's not the whole picture! it's as much a half truth as just focusing on only the positive aspects. why didn't the oprah show paint a more balanced picture? ratings? and so...how did this show exactly "honor" all us mothers out there then?!?

i did laugh a few times, especially when oprah talked so much. like she knows about motherhood! HA! i mostly respect her, but not here.

also, i checked out the featured blogger mom's blog. ugh. she has a video posted about why she thinks we should all vaccinate our kids. : i'll stick with soulemama's blog and the likes, thank you much.

[CHoney]

Originally Posted by redsfree

also, i checked out the featured blogger mom's blog. ugh. she has a video posted about why she thinks we should all vaccinate our kids. : i'll stick with soulemama's blog and the likes, thank you much.

Yeah, not my cup of tea either! What are some blogs you enjoy?

[Debstmomy]

I found it very annoying as well. It reminded me of some of the Mom's that have come to LLL looking for pure validation of being a Mother, because it is just not quite "good" enough, or not what they expected it to be. I went to college, got married, had kids for THIS?? That attitude really bothers me. What did you think it was going to be? Bon bons all day???


ETA: Now I know what I mean to say......I feel like these Moms were looking for "validation" via their children/babies, instead of it coming from inside, or just the pride that comes from raising children.

[burke-a-bee]

Originally Posted by redsfree

also, i checked out the featured blogger mom's blog. ugh. she has a video posted about why she thinks we should all vaccinate our kids. : i'll stick with soulemama's blog and the likes, thank you much.

I've read her blog for years and am so disappointed to hear how negative she is about parents who do not vax.

[Hazelnut]

I didn't find it whining- I mean I think an episode glowing about hwo wonderful motherhood is is not what we need. There is so much of that already in pop culture, and I think it's one reason why women who struggle with motherhood feel bad about themselves.

I just thought it was superficial and not especially funny, either, even a little sad. I really hate the "guess what i did this one time!" It's just not funny to me to brag about the things we can't do or screw up. Then that leads to the eyerolling to the mom who DOES get that particular thing right. Why not examine why we couldnt' do it in the first place? Why it is so stressful? What can be done about the lack of support, the high expectations, etc. The authors kind of tried to but the bloggers didn't say much adn weren't asked much of significance I didn't think.

[2bluefish]

I'm wondering if it just highlights something not working for families - obviously these women didn't feel prepared for parenting - were they not parented well themselves? Or did something else superceed their learning what they needed to know? Just speculation... Yeah, motherhood is harder than I had imagined, but I feel completely equipped to handle it. All I can think is that I was raised in a functional family, so I have innate knowledge of how to raise my own family. When I was pregnant with my first I was asked to leave a parenting forum (not MDC) cause other posters felt I didn't have experience so I shouldn't be making suggestions. So now I have 3 kids, and I don't feel my philosophies have changed all that much. I'm a little softer, less driven, but I feel I knew before I became a parent how to be a good parent. And I don't feel that I have to just loose myself. Yeah, there have been times where I've feared I was going to loose myself - especially after my son with sn was born, but I'm still here. If I want a drink at the gas station, I get one even if it means having all 3 kids in tow. I can't stop living cause I have 3 kids. How do you fail to realize that having 3 kids means you are going to have alot of company?

And Oprah did bother me - "I always thought motherhood involved sacrifice." I felt like there was may a little implication that becoming a mother is somehow lowering yourself. All this talk about not having time to go to the toilet or care for oneself properly... Maybe it is my rural upbring and lifestyle, but I just don't have that hang up. We are animals - sure we have intelligence - but we are still animals. We are not lowered when we have to attend to the bodily functions of another animal - we are doing what we were born to do. How can we be at peace with our environment when we can't be at peace with our place in the environment?

[CHoney]

Originally Posted by Hazelnut

Why not examine why we couldnt' do it in the first place? Why it is so stressful? What can be done about the lack of support, the high expectations, etc. The authors kind of tried to but the bloggers didn't say much adn weren't asked much of significance I didn't think.

I agree with you Hazelnut, this is what I wanted to see on the show. Let's expose some of the high expectations and change them as a society. Let's discuss how we can get more support or deal with lack of support.

As a new mother, I find it very challenging to "get things done" during the day. I've realized that my house will not be clean like it used to be. And I find it funny when my mom makes little comments about how my house should be clean, and doesn't understand why it takes me so long to get the baby ready to go out. I guess she forgot that she shared a house with her mother and had support whenever she needed it!

[Hazelnut]

Well I felt pretty prepared for parenting and was parented well and I still find it suffocating at times to not talk to grown ups all day and be climbed on all day and hear the chattering literally all day- not getting a moment to myself can be very challenging. I'm sure some of us handle things better than others, but this is the point- it is not the sign of some sort of parenting deficiency to find parenting challenging. it is.

And I think expectations and society has changed a lot since I was parented. My mom had more community. Schools didn't expect her to voluntter x many hours. It was easier to survive on one income. My dad wasn't expected, as a cfo even, to work more than 40 hours a week there was more town community, she wasn't expected to watch us every minute outside or research all the toxic chemicals in kids toys...etc.

[2bluefish]

I guess I what disturbs me is not that the women were saying that motherhood is challenging, but that they were so shocked to find it so.

[Monarchgrrl]

I'll speak up here about not being a momma yet. I liked the episode (except hearing about the things some did that I don't agree with like CIO- not funny!)

The reason I liked hearing the negative aspects of motherhood is because I still think that sometimes I have "overblown expectations" or a fairytale sense of what it will be like when I have kids. It's hard to not romanticize it, because I want to be a mother so badly. I have to remember to go read the parenting threads here and read about the challenges and issues mothers are having so it balances out all the wonderful things I read. I think it somewhat better prepares me for it. I don't really have mother friends and am not around kids much, so I think it helps to hear what it's like beyond the babymoon. It also reminds me that I won't be a perfect mother with perfect crunchiness. I liked hearing that pretty much any thought that I will have as a mother, MANY MANY other mothers have had the exact same thought.

But I also agree with Hazelnut that it was a great opportunity to turn it into a serious conversation about the WHY's and lack of support instead of a lighthearted episode.

[zoebird]

i didn't watch it, but i really dislike this impression of motherhood.

i don't really find being a mother challenging. the actual motherhood part is really great. whether i'm home or out and about, being with hawk is great. feeding is great; ecing is great; napping is great; playing is great.

for the most part, i'm even able to keep the house rather decent--clean bathrooms and kitchen. it's a bit cluttered, but overall, i think we do ok.

i really don't feel that i've lost myself at all. i really like who i am, what i do--i live my life with hawk, you know?

the real issue that i have is with "outsiders." the criticisms and complains of others are what undo me.

1. my husband: i love my husband and i know he loves me and hawk a great deal. every day, he works a job he dislikes to support us, and i'm not sure one can show love in any greater way than that sort of self sacrifice.

to help him with this, i try to help him maintain his schedule. he has about 30-45 minutes of time with hawk every day, during which time i do yoga and get cleaned up for the day. the remaining 23.25 hrs i'm caring for hawk pretty much exclusively.

i make sure that my husband gets his gym time, yoga time, meditation time, writing time, and down time. i only ask for his help as a last resort. and usually, he complains about it, asks me why i can't "just do it!" and so on. and while he's holding hawk for that 5-10 minutes, he'll interrupt me, ask me to do things (say hawk needs to potty during that time, he'll ask me to potty him), and so on.

and then, he'll sometimes say that i'm "being inconsiderate of his time" when i do ask for help.

2. and then, there are the grandparents. i understand that the grandparents want to know their grandchild: i want this for them! but, it can't be at my expense, at hawk's expense, or at our family's expense.

because my husband is SO busy, we have very little family time together. we NEED that time to grow together, and it's been hard to find the last 7 months. i finally told my parents and my ILs that we were restricting their visits down to once a month, rather than weekly.

then, the guilt trips started. and with this, the weedling--trying to come over whenever they want, under the guise of "trying to help you out!"

so, i fall for it a few times. my mother calls, says that the last time she was here, she noticed that i hadn't cleaned my fridge. it's true--i haven't cleaned it since august. i do clear it out of 'bad/old' food each week, and i used to do a monthly scrub, not nowadays, i'm caring for hawk and it's tough enough to get the basics done. so, the fridge (and closets) fell by the wayside.

my mother says that she'll come and help me clean the fridge. great, i think, i'll have help, and i can do the oven too, and it'll be great!

my mother comes, and she holds hawk. ok, i get that, no problem. 10 minutes later--as this is his usual li mit with anyone other than mom or dad--hawk is back to me. so, my mom now has to take over the cleaning. except she "doesn't want to." and she "came to hold hawk so i could get that chore done!"

of course, i can't hand hawk over, the fridge isn't being cleaned, and my mom is complaining because she drove all this way and isn't holding the baby. then, when she finally goes home, she calls back to tell me that i "really should" get that fridge clean because you don't want to feed food to the baby form a dirty fridge. . ." etc.

and don't even get me started on my ILs.

3. the next group are other parents who are not AP. they are constantly trying to pressure me into parenting their way, and it's really, really anoying.

to give an example, hawk still exclusively breastfeeds. he has a number of the milestones to eating (sitting up, pincher grip, interest in food), and following BLW, i give him a spoon and some mush or an apple slice or some such. he's just playing, experimenting (he loves apples, btw). it's not nutritional yet.

when i'm out, other mothers will talk about how "he's at that age now where you can leave him with a sitter." well, because we're not giving him rice cereal or jars of baby food, that's NOT the case. he still nurses on cue, whenever he wants. might be 5 seconds now, then 10 minutes later for 30 minutes, then nursing down to sleep two hours after that, having had 5 second bouts of it whenever he wants in between. it's all about him.

my employer told me "it's time to get child care sorted so that you can teach this class." the original agreement was that i could teach the class WITH hawk there. she decided, you see, that he's old enough for "other child care." i disagree with this. i want him in class with me. I told her "i'm happy to give up the class if hawk is not welcome." she freaked! she expected me to simply give in to HER idea of parenting because she has college-age kids and "knows all about it."

well, she's different from me. i'm different form a lot of folks. I don't think she's wrong and i'm right, this is just what i'm doing, and it doesn't involve feeding him frm a jar and dropping him at child care. it just doesn't.

and i'm ok with that. but the pressure is immense. you SHOULD be doing this or that with your baby right now! don't you know that your husband REQUIRES date night and sex at least 3 times a week? it would be better if you weaned him to a bottle and you could just start giving him food--then you can have/do these things.

but it's not what feels right for us. so, i don't do it. but the negativity, guilt tripping, and pressure when out--

and they don't even know that they'er doing it!

For me, the hardest part about being a mother isn't motherhood. it's how everyone else seems to have gone crazy, or doesn't care about what Hawk or I really need or want. it's really about how they want hawk, and how they want hawk to fit into their lives.

day to day mothering--that's awesome and fun. dealing with everyone's junk around that, not so much.

[funkymamajoy]

I watched a little bit but I got annoyed with all the women who didn't realize that life changes when you have kids.

[Hazelnut]

I think it might be more the extent of the changes. You know what? My house is very clean right and picked up right now. It is. I have seasonal clothing switched out already. Things are decluttered. I'm running two small co ops. I just served homemade meatballs and spaghetti for lunch. It wasn't that hard. But I have three little kids 5 and under. I'm still behind on a lot of stuff, prone to very stressful moments, and I'm not going to pretend that every day is just a breeze. It can also be really challenging. I find it so hard online when someone says it's hard and others are like "well it's easy for me, I don't see what's so hard." Can you really, seriously not see why some women struggle to keep it together at times? Do you really think that discussing that means they put down mothering? I don't see it that way at all. I don't identify with every little thing they say, but I get where the sentiment comes from.

eta: I didn't hear the wine/cio comment, but was annoyed at that overly long tangent about threatening to take toys away. Been there, not proud of it. Won't hide it, but yeah, not chuckling. I know that feeling of helplessness though when discipline is just not working out and you feel desperate.

[dogretro]

Originally Posted by burke-a-bee

I've read her blog for years and am so disappointed to hear how negative she is about parents who do not vax.

Yeah, b/c, God forbid she hold an opinion about something. You realize you are posting this on a forum that forbids talk about choosing to formula feed on purpose and looking forward to a scheduled c-section, right? Even though those are v real aspects of motherhood that not everyone has a problem with.

If my husband EVER said to me that spending time w/ his child or doing something around the house was cutting into his "me time," I would ask him if he lost his d*mn fool mind. Parenting is a partnership. So is taking care of a house. End of story.

I love Heather Armstrong (dooce.com) and have been reading her blog for years. She has been very open about dealing w/ severe PPD and how her husband was her rock of support during that time. That is actually what her new book is about. She has probably helped many women by letting them know that they are not alone and that finding yourself sitting in your closet, crying your eyes out, is not normal and you can get help.

Mothering is something that I am great at and that I love. I feel more myself than ever before. I wish everyone were as lucky as me.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by 2bluefish

I'm wondering if it just highlights something not working for families - obviously these women didn't feel prepared for parenting - were they not parented well themselves? Or did something else superceed their learning what they needed to know?

Honestly, I think a lot of it is cultural. There's always talk on the SAHM forum about SAHPing not being valued by society, in general. But, it's more than that, imo. Parenting, in general, isn't valued. There seems to be an attitude that even monkeys or dogs can have babies, so just anybody can do it. If it's hard for someone, it must be because of some flaw within themselves, not because caring for, nurturing and guiding another human being, almost single-handed (depending on various lifestyle factors) is challenging. I don't know why we have such a strange view of this, though.

ETA: As an example, I remember reading an article years ago by a childless woman, complaining about her friends who had kids. She said that her friends would come over and say things like, "I can tell you don't have children", because of her immaculate house or whatever. She went on and on about how they just needed to be more organized. While I was reading it, I was thinking about a then-recent incident, in which I'd been getting ready for a wedding - we were on schedule, everything was great. However, while I'd been putting on my dress, and my ex had been picking up his parents, ds2 had removed a dirty diaper. I'd caught that, and got him cleaned up. I hadn't realized (in the rush of getting ready) that he'd had it off long enough to plunk his poopy butt on the couch. I came within about a millimeter of sitting down on it, in my wedding clothes.

If we'd been late, people like the woman writing that article would have felt it was because we weren't "organized" enough. There doesn't seem to be any understanding that sometimes, one can't "organize" one's way out of another person's unexpected actions. For whatever reason, the "childfree" way of looking at parenthood seems to be the one that prevails.

[Hazelnut]

I love being a mother and I am very fulfilled by taking care of my family. I felt like this show implied that women who are completely happy being mothers are lying..

I didn't get this from this particular show, but I have gotten this feeling from blogs and online articles in the past, and I know what you mean. For me personally, I get that feeling most about SAHMing. I do find it hard, but I keep doing it for a reason and am bothered by this assumption that if I am fulfilled by it ultimately, I must be stupid or boring or ultra conservative or fill in the blank.