and a child with Autism with big sensory issues.
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Originally Posted by poiyt
 I have only skimmed this thread as my pregnancy self is not co-operating with reading...but in regards to the lots of kids running wild comment..I have two thoughts on this, as at first i thought the same thing.
1) We dont know if the kids actually are "running wild". We dont know if these parents practice GD, and this is just an outburst or whatever and not a common occurance. Further, if we know its a common occurance I have to ask myself....is it affecting me? If its affecting me, why is it affecting me. Is it because society has taught me that kids need to be obedient and behave and be queit and not run around etc etc...If the only reason is because its annoying me (or some other superficial thing) than thats my problem - not the child who is "running wild". If the child is doing something to me, my child, my property etc...then thats a different story - and I would approach the parent. And go from there... 2) The other thing occured to me is that the fear of permissiveness might actually lead parents to letting their kids run wild for a variety of reasons.. a) they may have just switched from authoritative parenting to UP and are trying to find a balance - me judging them or their child isnt going to help. Me modeling GD will. b) Maybe the parents are super strict, and the child is rebelling against all the rules. We hear it all the time dont we..that parents who use conventional discipline have to resort to harsher and harsher punishments in order to get their kids to be coercive..in the attempt to get a hold of their kids so they wont be seen as permissive parents, they are actually causing the problem.. I look forward to reading the rest of this thread when I can think... |
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Originally Posted by dogretro
You all have made some v good points
 For a little background, I have a degree in child development and used to work at a daycare. A LOT of the things kids do (kids being kids) does not phase me. And when something that is normal kid behaviour bothers me, I do ask myself if it is really "wrong" of them or if I'm just annoyed by it. Running, jumping, yelling, climbing, etc, that is stuff that I know if it bothers me, it is usually just me. Kohn gave great examples of kids doing "wrong" things like throwing a toy or splashing water *when no one else was around* and that it wasnt a big deal for the kids to be doing these things b/c there was no one around to be hurt. A kid running and playing tag who bumps into another kid and they both fall down, there is no need for correction from the parent, IMO. The kid is probably embarrassed and will pay more attention b/c they dont want it to happen again; it's self-correcting. Kids who are doing things over and over again, like deliberately pushing past much younger kids (not like a year younger, but several), throwing toys across crowded rooms, just stuff that is "wrong", it would be nice if a parent would at least say something to the kid. It is impossible to know each family's situation, that is part of what is hard! I do try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I know that, as a foster parent, I would hate for someone to see me using WIC checks when my kids are in designer clothing to make judgments about me and how I spend my money. They wouldnt know that I had foster kids or that my mother buys almost all of dd's clothing. I do see parents who kind of "snap" in public b/c they are dealing w/ more than one child & at least one of them doesnt want to cooperate. I know it is hard for them, so I try to cut them some slack. IDK, I still think I see way more permissive parents vs controlling ones. It is interesting that Kohn says that we feel it has to be one way or the other. This is so v true. Im glad that we are reading this book and showing people that there is more than black or white! Granted, my daughter doesnt have much opportunity to misbehave yet, but I love that I am establishing a relationship w/ her instead of a discipline plan I know a lot of it is personality, but she plays SO WELL on her own w/ out me running a commentary on what she is doing, or even actually playing w/ her. She is not constantly looking to me for affirmation, she is content to do her own thing w/ out interference. When she needs me, she comes to me (or cries out, lol). What we do flies in the face of current child/caregiver interaction advice, but it makes for such lovely time together |
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Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy
I agree with that mommabear! When I grew up a lot of what I "learned" went out the window... I had to learn it again FOR MYSELF. It set me back in life, and as a person, big time.
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Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy
I don't think what Kohn is suggesting is that parents BE permissive, but just that they don't parent in fear of OTHERS *thinking* they are permissive.
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HOW am i supposed to get my dd to cooperate and stop stomping for the neighbors sake? (or maybe they couldn't have cared less................) i just don't know what to do anymore when my dd does things that other adults feel she needs to stop immediately.
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Originally Posted by dogretro
If you are living w/ your mom, regardless of whether she pays for things or not, she is a co-parent. You are living in the same apartment as her, it is hers, too. I dont think you can always realistically expect your mother to parent the same as you; she is not your significant other. I do think that others need to listen to us, as parents, when we say things like no spanking or time-outs, or whatever, but it would be v hard for your mother to completely change her parenting style. It also sounds like she doesnt want to and you cannot make her. This is v sucky, but it sounds to me like you can talk w/ your mom and see if you really can work things out where she becomes more gentle w/ your dd. If she does not, then your choices come down to living w/ it or moving out. It is wonderful that your mother is willing to provide for you so that you can stay home, but if you dont think it is the ideal environment for your kids, then you need to leave. I can also guarantee that your mother feels more empowered as a co-parent by the fact that she pays for you all. Moving out and paying your own way would put her back into the grandma roll. Neither of these choices are anything resembling easy, I know, but if you keep talking to her and she is not interested in changing, there is nothing you can do about it. |
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Originally Posted by poiyt
After re-reading this chapter, and then another thread on this board - the whole toy thing made sense, but on a different level. I totally get/got that there is no right way to play with toys - but it occured to me that as parents we often think we need to be cosntantly entertaining/playing with our kids, when I dont think that needs to happen. I am by no means saying ignore your kids and never interact with them,. but I think its okay to let them play - even at young ages - and let them figure out *what* they want to do and *how* they want to do it.
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Originally Posted by Materfamilias
I often have the little red man sitting on my shoulder looking disapprovingly and telling me "bad parent! You should engage her! Talk! How will she learn vocabulary?"
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Originally Posted by haurelia
Hi all, hope it's okay if I jump in...I just finished the book, and also just noticed the UP book club threads. I am a first time mom of a boy (11 weeks old). DH is starting the book, after we've already been discussing much of it (I've been blurting out parts aloud to him, and we then veer off into discussion). I haven't read back through all of the posts, but have really enjoyed the discussion I have read.
I was very clearly thinking about the book when I spent the afternoon at my sister's house this week. She has an 18 month old boy, and my mom was caring for him that day while sis was at work. I arrived with my baby (11 weeks) shortly before sis got home for the day. My mom has a lot of selfishness issues, and was a very conditional parent herself. Our family is a good example of what Kohn points out in chapter 3...opposite extremes. My sis and I are both on the over-acheiver end of the spectrum, while my brother is a felon who still relies on mom to get a cell phone contract, cosign for a car loan, etc. We were raised with the threat of grounding, removal of privileges, lack of recognition for our wishes and, consequently, became "yes-children" (as Kohn describes). We remain so to this day, never disagreeing with our mom unless we're ready for an out and out argument. She expects to not be challenged, for her children to be deferential to her "just because I'm your mother" and doesn't view us as equal adults. I just sat back and nursed, as she pulled out toys and told nephew what toys to play with (even though he can access and choose them on his own), told him "good job" for every block he put in the shape sorter, etc. My mind was working! Later, around dinner time, a friend came over with her 6 year old son. She wrangled with him about the number of kernels of corn he was eating, for goodness' sake (I'm serious). Only when she deemed it enough was he allowed to leave the table. She herself is obese, and I wondered if her parents had controlled her eating in such a way as a child. I was viewing EVERYTHING that day through the lens of UP! This book has so challenged and opened my thinking about being a parent, and (painfully) made me think about my own upbringing. I talked the next day to sis on the phone, and shared my thoughts with her, and told her about the book. We both agreed that our childhood was spent always feeling like we were on the verge of getting punished for "something" (we didn't always have a good idea of what that "something" would be). We also agreed that we don't want our kids to feel that way. We both spend time with our mom out of a sense of obligation, not of enjoyment of one another's company...neither of us want that sort of relationship with our children. I'm hoping my sis will read the book after our chat. I'm also hoping that the UP ideas will help me to re-frame my thinking about my own upbringing to heal a part of my childhood pain. I am also hopeful that it will help me to back up my parenting choices when challenged by others (like my mom). Whew! If you made it this far, thank you for reading and considering. I'm looking forward to more discussion about this great book! |
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Originally Posted by Materfamilias
Yeah, I sometimes have to fight the urge to do something with/talk to DD when she's obviously happily engrossed playing with her toys. I try to let her be until she needs interaction with me. It's hard, though. I often have the little red man sitting on my shoulder looking disapprovingly and telling me "bad parent! You should engage her! Talk! How will she learn vocabulary?"
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Originally Posted by dogretro
There have been times I have felt like a bad mommy for "ignoring" my daughter to do other things, esp if the things are things for enjoyment (computer time, reading) instead of work (housework, cooking). But my daughter is VERY attached to me, grabs me for hugs, calls out "Mommy!" lovingly, and has many positive interactions w/ me throughout the day. I see it like the ocean, we come together and move apart as we please w/ no pressure, much like my husband and I do when he is home. Guilt is for when you have done something wrong. Allowing your child to have time to themselves, and to see you caring for yourself and enjoying yourself, is good for them!
My daughter is about to turn one and she knows plenty of words that we have not tried to teach her. For instance, she learned the word "cookie" not b/c we tried to teach it to her but b/c she eats so darn many of them! She picked it up b/c I will ask her if she wants a cookie & one day she started saying it back, lol! Some words we have taught her and some she has acquired thru every day conversation. Good for you, Heather, in doing something different than what you were raised with! It can be difficult, but you know it is the right thing to do! Welcome to our discussion! |
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Originally Posted by dogretro
There have been times I have felt like a bad mommy for "ignoring" my daughter to do other things, esp if the things are things for enjoyment (computer time, reading) instead of work (housework, cooking). But my daughter is VERY attached to me, grabs me for hugs, calls out "Mommy!" lovingly, and has many positive interactions w/ me throughout the day. I see it like the ocean, we come together and move apart as we please w/ no pressure, much like my husband and I do when he is home. Guilt is for when you have done something wrong. Allowing your child to have time to themselves, and to see you caring for yourself and enjoying yourself, is good for them!
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