Unconditional Parenting Chapter 3: Too Much Control - Page 3

[doublyblessed]

this is one reason my house looks like a tornado went thru it...otherwise i feel i'd be neglecting my kids... my young toddler requires a lot of my attention...basic and emotional needs... and my dd often requires my attention for company and affection as well.

i'm exhausted to say the least. and when i DO clean something, i am utterly exhausted physically and i feel depleted emotionally. like right now...... i feel like i just want to veg out on some tropical beach...

anyone ready for ch 4?

[poiyt]

Originally Posted by mommabear207

NAK


I keep running into this as well! But then I'd always be cleaning and never have time for dc never mind myself.
One question I have is how to work with dc when they are doing something I can't say "oh well, it's hurting nothing"? i don't know if an example would help or not... I try to understand what is driving this behavior (seems to be sometimes tiredness, need for attention, thinks its funny etc) and address it but usually ds keeps on keeping on. its hard- hes only two so reasoning doesn't work and i have a 2 month old who loves to sleep in my arms.

Mama..Im confused about what you mean, perhaps you could explain it, or give an example...

[foodmachine]

Originally Posted by mommabear207

One question I have is how to work with dc when they are doing something I can't say "oh well, it's hurting nothing"? i don't know if an example would help or not... I try to understand what is driving this behavior (seems to be sometimes tiredness, need for attention, thinks its funny etc) and address it but usually ds keeps on keeping on. its hard- hes only two so reasoning doesn't work and i have a 2 month old who loves to sleep in my arms.

I'm going to refer to Naomi Aldort again. I'm paraphrasing here:
When there's something going on you aren't ok with, start by saying "yes!" and then go from there with something you are ok with. For example, "Yes, you want to bend the vinyl record sleeves (yes, we have these), here's some empty boxes to play with." Or "Yes, you want to draw on the couch, here's a table covered in paper to decorate."
Anything helpful? Or are you talking more about a way of being, i.e. grumpy, sad, angry.

[doublyblessed]

Originally Posted by foodmachine

I'm going to refer to Naomi Aldort again. I'm paraphrasing here:
When there's something going on you aren't ok with, start by saying "yes!" and then go from there with something you are ok with. For example, "Yes, you want to bend the vinyl record sleeves (yes, we have these), here's some empty boxes to play with." Or "Yes, you want to draw on the couch, here's a table covered in paper to decorate."
Anything helpful? Or are you talking more about a way of being, i.e. grumpy, sad, angry.

oh i must dig my naomi book out of storage-i know its in a box of books somewhere in there...i love this. find a 'yes' in everything... just like re-labeling positively, like in that book 'raising your spirited child'. she talks about that too...i love it! yes yes yes!

do any of you allow your dc to write/draw/paint on walls??? i personally see nothing wrong w/ it as to me, its beautiful and why should it be limited to paper or canvas??? i mean, really??? who made these norms up, anyway??? some victorian??? what about cave drawings???!!! they could have just painted on large leaves or bark...but they decided to draw on the cave walls and even got crazy and did the ceilings too! walls can always be re-painted...................... i know my mother would NOT go for this.......but sometimes my dd gets away w/ it. like recently she wrote w/ a blue crayon on the moulding inside my moms bathroom door..............its a heart and it says "ME AND NANNY". awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! big cry out for some truly loving attention IMHO!!!

once my dd painted on our old hallway wall....i forgot if i told you this already, mamas..........? when my dd was about 2 she painted it orange and red..........it was BEAUTIFUL! my first reaction was a 'yes' one......i have a tendency to do this more easily w/ the young ones than older dc..................and i said 'oh! how BEAUTIFUL!!!' then i said 'oh honey, this is so nice....i LOVE it. but honey, our LANDLORD will NOT love it...they don't want us painting or drawing on the walls..........even though it CAN be painted over...............they would maybe kick us out......so lets take some pictures and videos and then we will have to paint over it, i'm so sorry, babe...............'. it was heartbreaking for me to have to repaint that wall, lemme tell you!!! i do have it on video and pics though.

my therapist doesn't think consequences are punitive..............incl withholding, taking away stuff and time outs.........i'm sorry but my child is NOT a dog to be tamed or trained to obey his or her 'master'. i believe our relationship should be consensual...i try to steer clear of disciplining my dc talk w/ this woman........it only makes me want to scream. (she is my county mental health dept's appointed counselor...i have no say in who i get...ho hum...).

[jwoodbri]

I definitely get the fear of permissiveness part. I think that is something that I struggle with. I worry that if I don't say or do something then the behavior that I don't like (yelling at the dinner table, coloring on the furniture, hurting the dog, grabbing toys away for his brother etc) will continue so I "crack down" but it continues anyway (which he talks more about in the next chapter.)

With UP I find that sometimes I'm so afraid to say the wrong thing (maybe so caught up on what to say) that I either don't say anything or more often times revert back to my "old ways." And then feel guilty about it later but I feel like I need some more concrete examples of what to do. Some one mentioned needing a tool box and that's what I feel like I need too.

[dogretro]

I would not want my children to color on the walls. I painted them and I dont want to paint them again. I am big into art and crafting, though. My kid can have as much paper, canvas, fabric, etc as she wants. I did see something once, cant remember where, wanna say it was a commercial for Latter Day Saints, where the kid drew a big picture on the wall. Instead of getting angry and punishing, the family hung a large frame on the wall around the drawing. It was cute

Jess, I follow some of the Waldorf ways of being w/ children, and Steiner was heavy on young children learning thru imitation. So, for things like yelling, I like to take my voice way down and talk like that. Sometimes I will sing a song in a whisper about it. Or I might say that yelling hurts my ears or gives me a headache. I also encourage my daughter to yell at times when the mood strikes me; I yell and she yells back. This gives her the chance to do some yelling just for fun & it is not annoying. You dont have to crack down or be permissive to extinguish destructive or hurtful behaviours. Redirection is a grand tool. When a child is coloring on furniture, you can offer paper. When he hurts the dog, you can take his hand, stroke the dog softly, and say "Nice touches". When kids grab toys, I do take them and hand them back to the original child. I tell them is it so-and-so's turn & that they can have a turn when s-a-s is done. I dont talk much about sharing w/ v young children (under three) b/c they dont seem to get it v well. I choose to emphasize taking turns. This seems to be easier for them to understand: I dont have the toy now, but I will have it later. I have the toy now and can play w/ it uninterrupted for x amount of time. Then I give it to the other child and it is gone for a while. Then it comes back. Much more black and white, here and there. I dont think that just b/c a child comes up and wants your toy that you should automatically have to give it to them or share it. You can say no. Especially when you are not old enough to really even be playing together rather than next to each other. That bugs me ~ we expect kids who are still in the parallel play stage to share w/ each other. They have not developmentally progressed to playing together, yet they are supposed to share an object??? But I digress!

[doublyblessed]

dogreto, that is cute about the frame on the wall...very cute!

i agree w/ you about when kids are in that parallel play stage...its ludicrous how people expect/demand babies share...i also do the 'sharing' the way you do w/ my LO's...

can't recall if i shared about my therapist here but she is a mental health dept appointed counselor so i couldn't choose...i tried to and can't. sigh... but she said a 'swat' is fine once in a while (what!) and she believes in consequences when i told her i don't believe in punishments nor rewards...she just doesn't get it. i think she sees me as too authoritative or too permissive. i guess i can go to those extremes but usually i'm in the middle...or when i'm really workin' my program well (UP that is) it is beautiful...it flows between my dd and i)

i also told her i am atheist and don't believe in god/deities and she said if i believe that there isn't than there must be something (a god) that exists... oh boy...that is too heavy for me to even ponder this morning........................ where's my cup of joe...?!

i have enrolled in a parenting class (making parenting a joy or something to that effect) that starts tonight at a local play place so the kids can play while us parents learn about probably punishment and reward. i think i won't show up. i know i'm just going to hardly take a thing from there that i believe in..................its your typical run of the mill discipline b.s. i'm sure.

i'm going to get more involved in my local AP group...they have baby groups 2x a month and that sounds good too. i know a few of the mamas that go to the AP group here and i really dig them...but i've never been regular. my own self sabotage i think...

i feel frustrated, though, being around so many parents in the world at large who parent so differently than i do...or how i want to most/all of the time... i don't like (or my EGO that is...my emotional mind...) being seen/judged as permissive or too authoritative. just as much as i'm afraid now to be too squeeky of a wheel at my dd's waldorf school when i have an issue to address re. one of the staff. (this time i'm not thrilled w/ a choice dd's kinder teacher made...she anchored the blown out easter eggs w/ halved matchstics...one of those easy strike ones...needless to say, my kids somehow wound up dropping it on the floor...how frightening!!! i already caught my dd a few months ago as she had been hiding in the closet w/ matches and candles................: to think of what COULD HAVE happened from that tiny halved matchstick that had the easy strike tip on it...i shudder.) i'm too in my ego/emotional mind that i worry if even i say things in a respectful yet concerned way that it will put a damper on my relationship w/ others...i also want to tell my dd's teacher not to do holding therapy w/ my dd anymore, that i changed my mind on how i feel about it being done to her... how to get over this... ugh. teachers can be so overly concerned w/ keeping their class in control...in obedience. roped in. and they can also hold the energy that they know best...which often, they don't...or are still carrying 'old school' ideas about how children should be raised/taught/'disciplined'. did you guys know that discipline aka disciple means TO GUIDE?! i learned that when i went to college for ECE. very cool. so many think of teaching as drilling into or...brainwashing (although many don't realize they are doing this...).

anyway, i'm going off on a tangeant of topics..............my whole point i think was getting away from worrying about what other parents/teachers ...whoever...think of us and how we parent. sigh...

[Super Glue Mommy]

There is no right answer for writing on the walls. However:

Walls can be repainted, or washed.
Childhood cannot be relived.

I let my children draw all over the house with chalk. Then we wipe it up together.

I do have a hard time "letting go" though and embracing the writing on walls thing - because I really dont WANT to repaint. I have to ask myself why I dont want to repaint and see if maybe I WOULD be okay repainting... who would I be and what would my relationship with my kids be if I didn't have the though "I don't want to have to repaint"

but, if in the end I am just not okay repainting, then we find a different solution we can all be happy with.

[poiyt]

lol..is it wrong that I cannot wait for dd to colour on the walls...because it would mean she finally has an itnerest in something thats an actual toy..lmao. She finds her fun in everyday objects: cans, paper, plastic, rocks...she could care less about colouring, puzzles..etc.etc.etc...

[doublyblessed]

ah but then there is the question (which i think involves a 'yes' within it) of....WHY do we feel we SHOULD or NEED to repaint over our dc's art on the walls??? why is blank color of paint more appealing to us adults? is it truly appealing or are we living thru someone else's limitations or inhibitions??? is it because we think that is the way it 'should' be...according to our society or...does it symbolize cleaniless or...what? yes, i am a sociologist at heart....

believe me, i'm guilty of buying into and going along the grain in re. to a lot of cultural norms...but i really don't want to 'go along' is what i'm trying to point out...

i'm going to try drawing on the wall w/ chalk and see how it wipes off. my mom should be fine w/ that as long as it wipes off easily. love the idea!

ok. i'm ready for ch 4...going to start in on that now...let me know when you mamas are ready.

[doublyblessed]

Originally Posted by poiyt

lol..is it wrong that I cannot wait for dd to colour on the walls...because it would mean she finally has an itnerest in something thats an actual toy..lmao. She finds her fun in everyday objects: cans, paper, plastic, rocks...she could care less about colouring, puzzles..etc.etc.etc...

my ds is the same way! dd was too, actually...why i bother buying toys is beyond me... it truly was a beautiful moment for me when my first child (dd) painted on that hallway wall...wow was that ever beautiful!!! i was so touched!!! : it was with a large brush so it was very 'big'.

[dogretro]

You can also get chalkboard paint at the store & turn any wall into a big chalkboard. Or, get a big piece of hard plastic & hang it on the wall to make a big dry erase board.

I had a moment today w/ a friend of mine and her dd where she was using conventional discipline and it really bothered me. I dont want to tell a whole story b/c it feels too much like gossip, but when she told me her motives for her actions, I did tell her that I totally disagreed (she volunteered the info, I did not ask). I want my kids to do the right thing b/c it is right, not b/c they are scared of me or being punished. I do often wonder how UP will go w/ my kids b/c dd is still a baby and does v few "naughty" things. It's hard to say that what you are doing is so grand when your kid is barely a toddler yet! I guess check back w/ me in a year!

[doublyblessed]

ha ha dogreto.......................you. just. WAIT! oh but ya know what..............it is a beautiful thing.............and if you stick w/ this UPing you won't have the huge inconsistent chaos i've had w/ my dd since she was about 2.5yo.......my poor dd has endured so many different faces of mama......and now i'm doing my darndest to stick w/ UP and not resort to any old punitive behaviors w/ her. it only makes her fight or flight. and breaks her heart not to mention mine.

i realized our painted walls are glossy! so i let my dd and ds draw w/ the big vibrant chalks the 'easter bunny' brought... it looks wonderful and wipes off w/ sponge and water no problem. its just like chalkboard paint only glossy and colored paint which IMHO is funner...chalkboards are so 'dry' feeling.............but very cool idea for those who wish to paint their own. maybe i'll get a frame and put it in an area on a few of these walls so not to limit where they can chalk-draw...they'd love that. after all, this is not just a grown ups world is it?! i wish i could get one of those low kids sinks and real working toilets......they are SO COOL!!!

also wondering if any of you plan to or are unschooling your kids? any radical unschoolers amongst you? i'm veering towards this...

[transformed]

I have watched the video but not read the book, I think I will hang around the chat here though. If you dont mind.

:

[transformed]

what resort do you live at doubly blessed? (I tried to PM you but your box is full!)

[mommabear207]

sorry i've taken so long to respond- i lost my message yesterday(grr)

i meant situations where dc is lets say hurting someone/ the dog or is destroying something of value and all your efforts to stop/ redirect dc fail dc just keeps going right back to doing it- emotions vary- sometimes dc seems angry other times like it is funny. those are the times that i find most difficult. maybe i'm forgetting something kohn already said?

[Super Glue Mommy]

Originally Posted by doublyblessed

ah but then there is the question (which i think involves a 'yes' within it) of....WHY do we feel we SHOULD or NEED to repaint over our dc's art on the walls??? why is blank color of paint more appealing to us adults? is it truly appealing or are we living thru someone else's limitations or inhibitions??? is it because we think that is the way it 'should' be...according to our society or...does it symbolize cleaniless or...what? yes, i am a sociologist at heart....

believe me, i'm guilty of buying into and going along the grain in re. to a lot of cultural norms...but i really don't want to 'go along' is what i'm trying to point out...

i'm going to try drawing on the wall w/ chalk and see how it wipes off. my mom should be fine w/ that as long as it wipes off easily. love the idea!

ok. i'm ready for ch 4...going to start in on that now...let me know when you mamas are ready.

because we are renting and do not own the home, and so we do have to repaint over anything that gets "messed up" when its time to move... though I of course would take pictures but I don't think I would paint over it in front of them

[Super Glue Mommy]

am I late starting Chapter 4, or did I just post chapter 3? Sorry, I try to post a new chapter every sunday or monday...

[doublyblessed]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

am I late starting Chapter 4, or did I just post chapter 3? Sorry, I try to post a new chapter every sunday or monday...

yeah we were renting that house too... i think my dd did help me repaint the wall... which was fun too... she was ok w/ it...

yes i think we are over a week in starting ch 4 but that's ok...i've been chomping at the bit but if others aren't ready...i don't want to push it.

i have a question in re. to mommabear207's post...i also have a hard time w/ this. i'll give you a very frequent example from my home... dd refuses to do something like move over, wants my arm under her head to snuggle when i'm already doing that w/ ds on the other side AND nursing him... (makes it hard to hold her) so...i suppose the solution (or one of them) w/b to go to bed w/ ds first, let him fall asleep and then hold dd and we go to sleep... (usually we all go to sleep together...) dd is getting neglected a lot of the time...i hold her when she's already snoring & ds is finally asleep...so most of the time dd doesn't even know i'm hugging her.

sooo...last night when this sort of thing happened, and she kept trying to get her head under my arm and i was fighting her......resisting...not letting her get in there between my arm and body. poor dd...i was really being a bear. really selfish and mean...i finally took a deep breath...thought of naomi aldorts 'give them a yes' way of being re. any situation w/ our dc and its like it clicked! i said, "M, you really wanted to play before we turned out the lights. and you really want to snuggle w/ me right now. (she said 'uh huh!' it was great, totally proactive and communal) i can see that. how about from now on we get in bed even earlier, play and jump on the bed to music like we like to do together as a family and then turn out the lights and i'll get brother to sleep and then we can have our snuggling time..." well she LOVED this. and i also said "i'm sorry, i'm so tired...i don't mean to fight w/ you and be so nasty...i love you and want to have fun and snuggle w/ you too...so you like that plan, stan?" and she said yes! yay! i done good, mamas...: i realize how selfish and uppity i can be when all i need to do is just calm down and find a yes in the moment...what we CAN do...or do next time around.

now as for dd being rude to ds or something like that...i am at a loss. well i guess i could do the same sort of thing..............."i can see you want that toy...you don't want brother to have it.................you don't want to share it right now................can we find a solution so you both can have time playing w/ it?" i just can't STAND when dd is telling my ds NO! or making a nasty angry face (gee, where could she have learned THAT from?! ), grabbing a toy from him... its just awful and breaks my heart for them... so how do i get dd to give ds back the object he had had if he is having a hard time w/ it being grabbed away???!!! i stumble in situations like this too. i don't like it when ds is crying and not understanding why his sister is being so cruel...

[Super Glue Mommy]

starting thread for chapter 4 now then. I've been reading ahead, so I forget when its time to start a new lol