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Anyone else tired of hearing this argument. . .

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
I apologize if you ladies have discussed this to death, but I am new to MDC and I'm so thrilled there is an anti-circ board here. Our son is due in July and he will be remaining intact. My husband is Jewish by heritage, so he is, of course, circed. I am really getting tired of hearing "don't you want the baby to look like his father?" as a reason to circumcise our son. Excuse me, but how much time, exactly, are my son and my husband going to spend naked around each staring at their penises? Is this really happening often enough in some families to cause concern? My father is circed and none of my 4 brothers are (and have never had any problems) and I don't think my parents had to sit down with my brothers and discuss why their penises looked different, not once. And if your son is so interested in penises, maybe it is time for a little birds and bees talk anyway. I also don't buy the "kids will make fun in the locker room" argument, either. No one got naked in the locker room while I was going to school and kids haven't had to shower after PE for a long time. I would be more concerned with why another child was looking at my son's genitals for so long anyway. Grrr! Sorry, I just needed to vent about those things, and I am so happy there is a community here that supports not genitally mutilating our children
post #2 of 16
mostly never! My husband rather showers by himself, not even with me!! LOL He helps me with bathing the girls and I am sure he will do so with the boy but when he does that, he has clothes on. I don't think he will ever be naked and helping the kids getting clean

Does he has any tattoos? or a birth mark? Every time you hear something like that, you say: I should tattoo him to look like him too I guess, right?

Check out this woman, she is a host of a tv show and has her own mom blog, she talks about this same issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbo3a9ubaz4
post #3 of 16
people are smart enough to not say things like that to me

I love the tattoos part, DH and I both have quite a few, They would be much upset if I tattooed a baby. People do ask if our kids will have dreadlocks they have obviously never tried to brush a little boys hair!

good for you tho! Talking a jewish man into not circing is big work!
post #4 of 16
I live in a low-circ area, so I don't hear this very often. My thought is that I'd respond with something like, "Oh - are you going to give him a pubic hair transplant, too?".

The penis of a little boy, whether intact or not, doesn't look like an adult male's penis, intact or not, anyway!
post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriket View Post

good for you tho! Talking a jewish man into not circing is big work!
You know, he is actually very open minded. We are also planning a home water birth, and I think that actually took a little more convincing than the no circing did. But now he is fully on board about both. His grandparents were kind of in arms about it, but after my DH threw out the term "genital mutilation", they shut up about it. I guess so many people just don't even bother to question it. I watched a video of a circ being done on youtube, and that sealed the deal for me. I could barely stomach watching it done to someone else's baby. I can't imagine watching that being done to my new son.

I wish I could use the tattoo comeback. Unfortunately, neither my husband nor I have any
post #6 of 16
Hello and WELCOME!!!! Congratulations! : You will forever be so proud of your decision to keep your son intact.

Yes, that argument is pretty lame. I always tell parents that their son is far more likely to notice that daddy has hair down there than that he is missing his foreskin. Really the pre-pubescent penis does not look like a grown man's penis. All you have to say (if he even asks) is that when daddy was a baby, they cut part off but now we know that it is bad and hurts babies a whole lot. He will be so happy you protected him from being hurt!

I wanted to take a moment to go over some intact care information. You might have read these things but I figure it couldn't hurt to post this anyway. Always remind doctors/care providers not to manipulate your son's foreskin in anyway, shape, or form. There is no reason for them to even touch his penis. The biggest danger to an intact boy is forcible retraction so you will need to be very careful that everyone who may care for/examine him knows not to try to retract for any reason. It is best to remind the doctor BEFORE the diaper comes off during exams. This might sound like over-kill but it is really not, many US doctors will ignorantly try to retract. They don't receive any training about foreskin development.

Take some time to read these:

Protect your Intact Son:
http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

Your Intact Boy:
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet4.html

AAP Care Guidelines:
www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap/

Development of a Retractable foreskin in Child/Adolescent:
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...kinleaflet.pdf

Forcible Retraction:
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet6.html

If poop gets on the penis you can wipe like a finger. You don't wipe after urination this is totally unnecessary and could disturb the natural flora.

In the bath you just swish in the water. With both boys and girls you want to avoid bubble baths and soaking in soapy water. This can irritate genitals and cause flora imbalance. I always apply the baby wash to my son last after he has finished playing and then rinse him immediately. Never apply soaps directly to your child's genitals.

This is not foreskin related but good to know:
For both boys and girls yeast infections can happen during the diaper wearing years or after a round of antibiotics. This is has nothing to do with his foreskin but I thought I would address it anyway. Yeast is easily treated with an OTC anti-fungal or prescription anti-fungal. To avoid yeast infections you should always have give your child probiotics during and for one week after a round of antibiotics. You can get probiotic supplements from the pediatrician or from a health food store. They have some especially formulated for infants and babies. Probiotics are just healthy bacteria. Also, if you choose to cloth diaper you will want to strip your diapers with vinegar and hang them to dry in the sunlight if you ever get diaper yeast (thrush). Yeast can be quite hard to remove from cloth diapers. You will want to use sposies until the yeast on your baby is treated and all the diapers have been stripped.

Development of the intact boy:
During childhood/adolescence your son will go through a normal separation process as the foreskin separates from the glans. It is different for each boy and happens at a different age for each boy. During this time he might experience some irritation, itching, stinging, minor redness, minor swelling, ballooning, spraying, smegma pearls, uneven retraction, etc. These are all totally NORMAL and resolve by themselves. We get a lot of concerned parents come here asking about their son's irritated or slightly inflamed penis. 97% of the time it is just normal separation occurring. Some boys don't experience any of this but most boys have 1 of these symptoms at some point. Unless it gets increasingly worse, extremely inflamed, he has fever, or you suspect yeast there is nothing to worry about. Bacterial infections are VERY rare! Usually the symptoms of separation resolve themselves within 48 hours. Due to the fact that US doctors know very little about the development of the intact boy, it is wise to wait it out and let this resolve.

Remember that just b/c the foreskin has separated from the glans does NOT mean that anyone should try to retract your son. The opening of the foreskin remains very narrow and widens with sexual maturity. A foreskin only becomes retractable after the foreskin has separated and the opening has widened. Only 50% of boys are retractable by age 10. It is normal for a boy to not become retractable until after puberty. The only person to retract a boy should be the boy himself. Here is a helpful thread about separation:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=764732?

This is much more info than you asked for but I thought I would post it so that you can protect your intact boy from the harms of a very uneducated medical field we have here in the US.
post #7 of 16
Hi and welcome! Congrats on your baby boy and on leaving him intact! : What a lucky baby!

I have an intact son and a circ'ed DH and if someone were to use that argument with me, I would probably ask them if I should shave the baby's head partially too. (My DH is balding on top) And if a baby should look like daddy in every way, you would really feel sorry for the kid that had a dad who lost a finger in an accident or something.

I mean, c'mon, are the father and son really going to sit side by side and be comparing their parts a lot? I don't think so. And even if the son asks, there are good simple responses that get the point across. "Looking like daddy" is definitely not a valid reason to perform a surgery on a newborn.

However, my DH is slowly starting foreskin restoration so he can have the function of a foreskin and because he's a tad bit jealous of his son's. So with any luck, by the time DS is old enough to ask about foreskins, DH will have one!
post #8 of 16
Such a lame argument. My dad was circ'd but I was not and neither was my brother. There's no deep-seeded insecurity that comes from this at all. It never made me feel weird or deformed. When I found out was circ was and how the foreskin was not useless, I even became grateful I looked different. If I ever have a son, it won't be a big deal because we'll both be intact but say I was circ'd. I doubt it would be a psychologically damaging thing for my son (though it would be for me if I resented what was done to me). Besides, toddlers are too young to get hung up on such things because it's all they've ever known.

If it's the other way around it's not so traumatic either in childhood but potentially the son in his life could become upset if he comes to hate what was done to him while his father never got the cut done himself. A bit of jealous would ensue possibly. I'm sure many from the generation that had mostly intact dads but got circ'd in hospitals feel that if it was so medically beneficial why did their fathers stay as nature intended? Anyway, the locker room one is stupid and teasing is part of life no matter what it's over. I've never known anyone to get ridiculed over having a foreskin and that's not just because I've lived in Canada where cut is the minority. Well once I did witness a guy teased before years ago in a school class but it seemed more in good fun and stupid.

That's because the two doing the teasing were talking about how being circumcised was better (probably bought into myths and thought since American porn actors were all cut too it was cool and superior) then asked a few guys if they were circumcised. But the handful of guys they asked, including me, either didn't divulge or said they weren't snipped themselves. So then it seemed obviously dumb to tease a guy for not being cut when he was in the slight majority! Once a couple years ago the same thing came up and it was mixed between those intact and those not but the guy asking actually seemed proud to have his foreskin, quipping "I don't know, I'd never want to lose my foreskin. I kinda like my hoody!" LOL. Good for him! Hopefully the U.S. gets to that point where it's pointless to tease over such a thing like that and the "look like dad" and "locker room" arguments become passe.
post #9 of 16
My standard response to the "looking alike" questions is this:

"Well, by the time he looks ANYTHING close to his dad, they'd better not be sitting around comparing penises!"

It tends to hush people up pretty fast!
post #10 of 16
You could say, I tried to explain that to my husband but he still won't shave down there.
post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldmanBaby09 View Post
I also don't buy the "kids will make fun in the locker room" argument, either. No one got naked in the locker room while I was going to school and kids haven't had to shower after PE for a long time.
My DH and BIL were in baseball, track, cross country, and football in school from grades 6-12. Yes, they showered every day (it would be GROSS not to), yes, they saw each other naked, and even though the locker room philosophy is to tease everyone about everything, neither of them ever got a single comment on being intact.

Since most of these people who say this have no firsthand experience with this (obviously - being on the pro-circ side), and just assume, they shut up pretty quick.
post #12 of 16
Its funny people assume all peni (is that the correct plural form lol) look the same. Line 10 of the up, all intact or all circed and not 2 will look the same. I know I have 5 boys. Everyone of them looks different. My boys were actually talking about this the other night . FWIW they also talk about how stinky their farts are and how far they can spit. They are boys after all.

As far as the locker room thing - you know I have been in locker rooms where the women got naked. They didn't pick on each other for their scars, stretch marks, flabby skin or different sized boobs. I doubt the males are much different. Cause find one thing to pick on one person about and they will be able to find something to pick on you about.
post #13 of 16
that is such a stupid argument. do we get our girls breastimplants to make them look the same

johannasonja
post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhispers View Post
You could say, I tried to explain that to my husband but he still won't shave down there.

Love it!
post #15 of 16
My dh and my ods are circed. My younger ds is intact, as will be the next baby (and all future babies). My oldest is 6, he bathes with his brother, and it has never come up.
post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldmanBaby09 View Post
Anyone else tired of hearing this argument
I'm so tired of ALL pro-circ arguments, including this one, of course.

Welcome to MDC and TCAC! :

My husband is originally from Israel, by the way. Cut, unfortunately . Our son is intact .
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