SIDS and Vaccines? - Page 2

[katmann]

Any legitimate scientist will agree that you can't prove a negative hypothesis. In other words, you can't say with certainty that vaxes don't cause sids (or autism, etc.). However, I find the citations on the whaleto site ambiguous at best. I don't mean the articles, but the annotated citations. Unfortunately, it's very hard to do a properly controlled study on such an issue, though I will agree that the powers that be would seem to prefer that the research not be done. It would help all of us questioning parents to know that the CDC and NIH and other groups take our concerns seriously and initiate more thorough studies.

[an_domhan]

Originally Posted by Marnica

It's funny that nobody had anything negative to say about Viera until she started writing about the dangers of vaccines. She stumbled upon the connection between SIDS and vaccines quite by accident through her research (developing cotwatch). She had not been "anti-vaccine" until she made this discovery.

I think a lot of issue is taken (with her and others) with the overinterpretation of studies/data. I think she is highly intelligent, and shows tremendous respect for human life. But I also think that when you begin to publicly interpret studies and formulate conclusions that are inconclusive, then you set yourself up a bit for not only failure, but also ridicule.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by an_domhan

I think a lot of issue is taken (with her and others) with the overinterpretation of studies/data. I think she is highly intelligent, and shows tremendous respect for human life. But I also think that when you begin to publicly interpret studies and formulate conclusions that are inconclusive, then you set yourself up a bit for not only failure, but also ridicule.

Kind of like Paul Offit does?? He's publicly concluded that vaccines are safe and effective (despite the fact that there are no long term safety studies and there are NO studies that have been done on the multiple vaccine cocktails babies receive nowadays. He has, in fact, concluded babies could safely be injected with 10,000 antigens/toxins.

Yet he is still a highly respected MD and scientist (at least in some circles!)

[an_domhan]

Originally Posted by Marnica

Kind of like Paul Offit does?? He's publicly concluded that vaccines are safe and effective (despite the fact that there are no long term safety studies and there are NO studies that have been done on the multiple vaccine cocktails babies receive nowadays. He has, in fact, concluded babies could safely be injected with 10,000 antigens/toxins.

Yet he is still a highly respected MD and scientist (at least in some circles!)

Indeed... just like him.

I think the figure was actually 100,000... based on the theoretical capacity of the immune system. The studies of vaccine combos are all vaxxed to vaxxed, with ethical immunity (pun intended) preventing a proper assessment of what exactly that might do to a developing human. There are animal models, but nothing comparing the synergistic effects of the US regimen. And when you have millions of babies receiving vaccines in several different combinations... well... all I can say is... confounders. The very same kind of confounding variables that they say preclude them from doing a long term epi study of vaxxed and unvaxxed kids.

Apparently, they think parents will not realise that they are talking out of both sides of their mouths because to them, parents are all uneducated (or done so by the internet or Google) and stupid. There's only so much condescension people can take before these kinds of folks get told to blow it out their arse.

[Scattershoot]

And when you have millions of babies receiving vaccines in several different combinations... well... all I can say is... confounders. The very same kind of confounding variables that they say preclude them from doing a long term epi study of vaxxed and unvaxxed kids.

Apparently, they think parents will not realise that they are talking out of both sides of their mouths because to them, parents are all uneducated (or done so by the internet or Google) and stupid. There's only so much condescension people can take before these kinds of folks get told to blow it out their arse.

Again, I need to make a list of all these contradictions. They are everywhere within the vaccine movement. I may start a thread and ask for the learned folks on this site to help me compile it. There are so many I know I will miss some by myself.

[EVC]

Absolutely there is a connection. It was originally linked to the DPT shot. I reccommend you look at Dr. Vera Schrieber's research on this. She is the one who hypothesized the link in the 1980's when she was doing research. She wrote extensively on this connection and vaccines in general. She of course has since been labled a quack by mainstream medical folks.

Dr. Mendelsohn also claimed there was a connection. And while he may have been a self-proclaimed "medical heretic", I doubt anyone could call him a quack. This guy had serious credentials. He also had serious concerns about vaccinations, including a possible connection to SIDS.

[EVC]

Also, I think there has been some recent research (I remember posting the link here a while back) linking SIDS to fluctuations in serotonin levels. This is apparently a TOTALLY mainstream theory. We could easily take it a step further and hypothesize a link between vax and seretonin production. It doesn't seem far-fetched to me at all.

Although, just for the record, I do want to point out that there are cases of SIDS among non-vaxed babies as well. They have been mentioned in previous discussions here. So I do NOT think that vax is ALWAYS behind it. I do, however, believe that it CAN be a trigger. Reading through VAERS that seems pretty obvious. There is WAY more than coincidence here.

[an_domhan]

Originally Posted by EVC

Also, I think there has been some recent research (I remember posting the link here a while back) linking SIDS to fluctuations in serotonin levels. This is apparently a TOTALLY mainstream theory. We could easily take it a step further and hypothesize a link between vax and seretonin production. It doesn't seem far-fetched to me at all.

Although, just for the record, I do want to point out that there are cases of SIDS among non-vaxed babies as well. They have been mentioned in previous discussions here. So I do NOT think that vax is ALWAYS behind it. I do, however, believe that it CAN be a trigger. Reading through VAERS that seems pretty obvious. There is WAY more than coincidence here.

I believe the first was in rats, and related to aluminum this one maybe? There was an AP article on 7/3/08 if I recall, and this one and this one...

edited to further add: I think this is the mouse model... maybe someone (mamakay or Deborah) can confirm?