What happens when our unvaxed girls are of childbearing age? (re: Rubella) - Page 3

[ChristSavesAll]

I know this is an old post but just wanted to chime in that rubella is not gone...

Dd just got over it and I believe she caught it while we were out at the swimming pool... I'm also wondering if she caught it from a recently vax'd kid as I'm in Ohio and it seems most parents vax here.

I'm pg and have no idea about immunity or not, I never had it as a child and I remember being vax'd though I don't remember the last one..

We are an anti-vax family (especially after seeing two kids in the family have adverse reactions, one developed autism, and the other developed partial facial paralysis) so in answer to your question of whether I would vax myself if some test showed low or no immunity, No. Like other pp's I believe in focusing more on our health and do not trust injecting live viruses along with heavy metals into our bodies, somehow that just doesn't seem conducive to real health.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by gr8blessings

A woman that has recovered from rubella would have the same immunity as a vaccinated woman.

Not so because vaccine immunity wanes while natural immunity is life long.

Most women who show immunity have it due to a secondary infection with the natural virus not due to the vaccine.

Originally Posted by gr8blessings

I would also agree that this disease is likely under-reported and there are undiagnosed cases given the mildness of the disease in children. Rubella cannot be diagnosed clinically, only by serology or virus culture. Thus if the kids aren't going to the doctor, rubella is not being diagnosed. How would we know how many cases of rubella fall into this category?

Exactly. Which is why we can not say it is "practically" eliminated. There is no way of telling. Swiss studies say it is not.

... the risk of acquiring rubella is pretty darn small for both vaccinated and unvaccinated women based on the reported incidence rate and as long as this incidence rate remains low.

I read a contradiction. Rubella is not reported nor diagnosed yet there is a claim that it occurs in low rates and is practically eliminated. Does not make sense to me.

Repeating:

In the days when practically every child had rubella sooner or later, before the vaccine was introduced, CRS was so low that the CDC did not even keep track of it.

Virtually no pregnant woman was at risk of getting rubella since she carried life long immunity. CRS was never a concern (until a vaccine was brought on the market and March of Dimes took charge of the propaganda).

The highest number of CRS recorded by the CDC was 62 in the year 1969, the year prior to the rubella vaccine.

In a birth cohort of 2,000,000 that was 0.0031%

All other numbers promulgated by the March of Dimes etc. in regards to CRS are bogus and used as selling and fear mongering tools.

Originally Posted by ChristSavesAll

Dd just got over it and I believe she caught it while we were out at the swimming pool... I'm also wondering if she caught it from a recently vax'd kid as I'm in Ohio and it seems most parents vax here.

Could be but it does not make any difference. For your child it is natural immunity.

[Astrogirl]

Just so its clear where I'm coming from: I agree with Gittis posts throughout this thread, and am pretty anti-Rubella vax. I think its wholly ineffectual.

That said, I have 2 questions that I'm curious about:

1) For those of you who have posted that your child has/had Rubella - has this been confirmed with any sort of lab results or are you just speculating based on how the illness presented? I'm not challenging, but just wondering about absolute confirmed cases.

2) Is it an absolute fact that natural immunity is life-long and never wears off?
It IS a fact that artificial immunity can and most likely will wear off. Just wondering what we know about natural immunity.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Astrogirl

1) For those of you who have posted that your child has/had Rubella - has this been confirmed with any sort of lab results or are you just speculating based on how the illness presented? I'm not challenging, but just wondering about absolute confirmed cases.

Good question. I bet not even the CDC has an answer to that one.

2) Is it an absolute fact that natural immunity is life-long and never wears off?

Another good one. I bet it depens on the individual and for some it may depend on re-exposure.
But I highly suspect that rubella is circulating freely since we see the majority of women tested do show immunity (which can't be from the vax 20+ years later).

Whenever a child is diagnosed with a "mild fever rash" or "some viral rash" and the child is of the appropriate age, I suspect rubella.

[ChristSavesAll]

Originally Posted by Astrogirl

1) For those of you who have posted that your child has/had Rubella - has this been confirmed with any sort of lab results or are you just speculating based on how the illness presented?

Dd has only seen one doc since she was born and that was when she was 3 days old, and the visit was more for me and my sudden onset of panic attakcs... ds is 5 and has seen a doc twice... can you tell we don't do doctors? There is never a need, I diagnose my family and treat my family accordingly, I would never use pharma meds anyways so there is no point in seeing a doctor.

So no she was not tested. However, she had a fever of about 102 for two days after which she developed a rash that began on her head and face then moved down to her neck shoulders then chest and back and finally her legs before lightening up and being gone on the fourth day. So she had it a total of three days and based on the symptoms, the way it presented, and the length of time I think it's pretty obvious that she indeed had Rubella.

Very mild, I can't believe they have a vax for it... they'll make a vax for anything so long as it means more money...:

[Astrogirl]

Thanks Nichole and Gitti for answering

Nichole, the reason I was asking is that I am kinda secretly hoping my kids have already been exposed to it as well (one has had the MMR, which you might remember reading the ambulance ride thread for, but the other has not). I haven't taken my kids to the doctor for any of their many fevers or rashes (except 2x when I thought i couldn't manage it on my own - once for pneumonia and once for a blood infection) so I'm kind of hoping at least one of those events was a Rubella case.

[ChristSavesAll]

Originally Posted by Astrogirl

Thanks Nichole and Gitti for answering

Nichole, the reason I was asking is that I am kinda secretly hoping my kids have already been exposed to it as well (one has had the MMR, which you might remember reading the ambulance ride thread for, but the other has not). I haven't taken my kids to the doctor for any of their many fevers or rashes (except 2x when I thought i couldn't manage it on my own - once for pneumonia and once for a blood infection) so I'm kind of hoping at least one of those events was a Rubella case.

Lol, I must admit that I too am secretly excited that dd got Rubella, sounds strange to some but I'm glad she got it the normal way... Just wish I knew if ds has caught it... it takes a couple weeks to start showing symptoms... I would have ds sharing a sippy with dd but she also came down with some thrush that we are trying to get rid of.

[runes]

Originally Posted by SoCaliMommy

The bolded isn't true
I was vaxed (my mother is very pro vax) and i'm immune to rubella.

She said most, not all.

And it is possible that you may have lifelong immunity to rubella because you may have actually had rubella, either from the vaccine or at another time before or after. Did your mother check your titres before or after the vaccine?

That's one thing that totally stumps me about "pro-vax" people. If you're so into artificially induced immunity, why not check to make sure that the vaccine worked?

[luminesce]

I'm fully vaxed and have never showed adequate immunity. Think I was going to bother to try a vaccine now when it didn't work before and is definitively linked to joint problems? No way. I've heard other people say the same thing. Of course, I don't really believe that titers are always accurate eitehr.

[BetsyPage]

Well, my youngest has had rubella I believe. It fit all the classic childhood symptoms. My only concern is that I'm speculating she got it from a recently vaxed child, so I wonder about the strain???

What sucked, absolutely sucked, is that my dh got it. He is unvaxed, and never went to preschool so I am assuming that he managed to avoid being exposed to recently vaxed peers and therefore never developed natural immunity. Like another poster recounted, it is NO FUN as an adult. He missed a week of work. Later he developed pneumonia as a complication.

My thought... childhood illnesses belong in childhood. We will assess my girls' immunity status when they are older, and they will be involved in making an informed decision. I'm pretty confident that so far as Rubella, they will both have natural immunity, which really pleases me.

Now if we could ever get Chicken Pox, *sigh*.

[ChristSavesAll]

Originally Posted by BetsyPage

Well, my youngest has had rubella I believe. It fit all the classic childhood symptoms. My only concern is that I'm speculating she got it from a recently vaxed child, so I wonder about the strain???

Now if we could ever get Chicken Pox, *sigh*.

I believe dd also contracted it from a recently vax'd kid while we were out at the pool..

Lol, I need to get to know more mommas in my area so I can find someone who has a munchkin with it so I can hopefully get dd and ds to catch it.

[moondiapers]

Originally Posted by Astrogirl

Just so its clear where I'm coming from: I agree with Gittis posts throughout this thread, and am pretty anti-Rubella vax. I think its wholly ineffectual.

That said, I have 2 questions that I'm curious about:

1) For those of you who have posted that your child has/had Rubella - has this been confirmed with any sort of lab results or are you just speculating based on how the illness presented? I'm not challenging, but just wondering about absolute confirmed cases.

2) Is it an absolute fact that natural immunity is life-long and never wears off?
It IS a fact that artificial immunity can and most likely will wear off. Just wondering what we know about natural immunity.

We didn't confirm my son's case with blood tests, BUT....before he had rubella I tested as NOT being immune (even though I was fully vaxed) and after he had rubella, I'm testing as immune. So I was tested, but he was not. The only reason I got tested both times is that we've been TTC and I tested as being NOT immune before both of my kids....and when we started to TTC again I wanted to see if that had changed (I have a homedaycare) and was considering getting the vax for myself.....then a couple of months later DH caught it. I suspected that it's what he had because of the way it presented itself, then I changed OBs and decided to get tested again because of Ds.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by serenitii

Of course, I don't really believe that titers are always accurate eitehr.

Positive titer results does not mean immunity from certain infections.

Negative titer results does not mean vulnerability to certain infections.