Slightly Confused... - Page 4

[gr8blessings]

Originally Posted by Deborah

What puzzles me about TB, is the strange correspondence between high TB vax rates in some countries and high rates of TB. I wonder how that works?

I hope the WHO positional paper helps explain how this works:
http://www.who.int/immunization/wer7...tion_paper.pdf

gr8blessings

[Deborah]

The bacille Calmette–Guérin (BCG) vaccine has existed for 80 years and is one of the most widely used of all current vaccines, reaching >80% of neonates and infants in countries where it is part of the national childhood immunization programme. BCG vaccine has a documented protective effect against meningitis and disseminated TB in children. It does not prevent primary infection and, more importantly, does not prevent reactivation of latent pulmonary infection, the principal source of bacillary spread in the community. The impact of BCG vaccination on transmission of Mtb is therefore limited.

Well, that is helpful.

Although the oldest of currently used vaccines, BCG is still controversial in that there are conflicting data on its protective efficacy.

Most high-burden countries practise BCG vaccination of infants as part of the national childhood immunization programme, but in industrialized countries, where the disease
has become rare, vaccination of defined high-risk
groups is increasingly becoming the preferred strategy.

The interaction between TB and HIV infection and the emergence of multidrug-resistant Mtb have stirred new interest in the BCG vaccine.

worth reading

[Deborah]

This is interesting, too.

Vaccine efficacy
During the period 1935–1975, extensive trials to assess the protective efficacy of BCG against pulmonary TB provided conflicting results. Generally, the highest rates of protection 60–80%) were achieved in north America and northern Europe, whereas in tropical regions trials usually showed low or no protection. For example, the Tice BCG strain that was formerly widely used in the United States induced protection among vaccinees ranging from 0–75%. Likewise, the Copenhagen vaccine strain showed 77% protection following vaccination of schoolchildren in England and 0% protection when used in the general population of southern India.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

Smallpox has been eliminated world wide. Hence no chance of wild exposure. TB is a recomended vaccination for travel and has been coming back. I got a TB vaccination in highschool. It was 15-16 years ago I don't remember why, but I remember because I can be exempt from TB testing because I have the vaccination.

I do think that an epidemic would hit. Just what my years of research supports. I'd rather be wrong, but I would hate to find out its true. As I said look at the outbrakes in the YK, the sudden outbrakes of HiB in the US. Its all leading to that same conclusion. I suppose only time will tell.

What about all the diseases we don't vaccinate for? Like- scarlet fever, black plague, etc?

-Angela

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by alegna

What about all the diseases we don't vaccinate for? Like- scarlet fever, black plague, etc?

-Angela

I didn't say vaccinations are the be all and end all of a desease being eliminated. I said its a part of it.

Scarlet fever is a strep infection. We don't have a vaccination currently for any strep infections, only treatments.
It is still in existence, but is less common because of the medical treatments that can now be given to prevent it from reaching this stage.

As for black plague or bubonic plague still exists as well. The cases are incredible rare. Treatment and sanitation have been key in controlling this. People who contract it in modern day usually servive because of advanced medical treatments. That is when they live where that medical treatment can be readily provided.

[Mom2Mason]

Originally Posted by Deborah

I think YK stands for Yukon. In Canada. A sparsely populated area.

I think she meant UK. She talked about outbreaks there, referring, I'm assuming, to the measles outbreaks. Kimberly?

[Jugs]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

As for black plague or bubonic plague still exists as well. The cases are incredible rare. Treatment and sanitation have been key in controlling this. People who contract it in modern day usually servive because of advanced medical treatments. That is when they live where that medical treatment can be readily provided.

So why do we credit vaccines for drastically reducing infectious diseases, when sanitation and proper medical care are obviously so effective on their own?

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by Mom2Mason

I think she meant UK. She talked about outbreaks there, referring, I'm assuming, to the measles outbreaks. Kimberly?

OH yes I ment the UK sorry didn't even notice that I typed it wrong.

Originally Posted by Jugs

So why do we credit vaccines for drastically reducing infectious diseases, when sanitation and proper medical care are obviously so effective on their own?

Because unlike the black Plage and Scalet fever these other VPD are airborn. As I said its vaccination alone didn't do it, never said it was, however combined with better sanitation, and proper medical care they have help reduce and even eliminate many deseases. They're not perfict, nothing is. Though they would be more common and more people would die, especially children like my DD, who have NO protection. Thats why people get angry. Because often times people don't see the big picture. On either side really.

However if you are in the situation where your child is the child who most likly will die from these deseases, can you not at the very least understand their fear and their pain? after all many choose not to vaccinate out of fear too. Fear is a powerful modivator.

And from the research I have done, on both sides of the issue, I don't believe, nor do most people who work in the feilds relating to vaccinations, that there will be a reduction in the the numbers of autism, childhood diabetes, juv. rheumatism, allergies and asthma. More likly its linked to poor diet, and excersise practices for many of those. Not to mention genetics.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

Because unlike the black Plage and Scalet fever these other VPD are airborn.

Um... scarlet fever is as airborne as anything we vax for.

-Angela

[kiara7]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

And from the research I have done, on both sides of the issue, I don't believe, nor do most people who work in the feilds relating to vaccinations, that there will be a reduction in the the numbers of autism, childhood diabetes, juv. rheumatism, allergies and asthma. More likly its linked to poor diet, and excersise practices for many of those. Not to mention genetics.

I'd have to strongly disagree. Most of the "new" childhood illnesses are auto-immune. If it was as simple as poor diet and exercise - wouldn't these issue be solved this easily too? Genetics - so in the last 10-15 years, everyone's genes just started getting messed up somehow?

Also, if it was environmental factors - wouldn't adults be affected too?
Children are the ones that are being injected with all the chemicals and toxins.

[anewmama]

Trends in Tuberculosis ---United States, 2005

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5511a3.htm

Perhaps is it primarily the rise in drug resistant TB that is making headlines and not necessarily an overall rise in TB?

Moreover, the number of multidrug-resistant (MDR) TB§ cases in the United States increased 13.3%, with 128 cases (up from 113 in 2003) of MDR TB in 2004, the most recent year for which complete drug-susceptibility data are available.

[Dera]

Originally Posted by kiara7

I'd have to strongly disagree. Most of the "new" childhood illnesses are auto-immune. If it was as simple as poor diet and exercise - wouldn't these issue be solved this easily too? Genetics - so in the last 10-15 years, everyone's genes just started getting messed up somehow?

Also, if it was environmental factors - wouldn't adults be affected too?
Children are the ones that are being injected with all the chemicals and toxins.

I would also disagree. Isn't our diet and lack of exercise very similar to what it was 20 or 30 years ago? Heck, wasn't processed, junky food and video game addiction at a peak in the 80s? It seems to me that diet education and awareness is pretty good right now yet rates of these disorders are still skyrocketing.

[Marnica]

[QUOTE=KimberlyD0;13572009]OH yes I ment the UK sorry didn't even notice that I typed it wrong.




Because unlike the black Plage and Scalet fever these other VPD are airborn. QUOTE]

HUH?? Bubonic plaugue can be contacted through inhaling infected droplets thus it is airborne although one could also contract it from bites or direct contact with infected tissue.

Scarlett Fever is also an airborne disease