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grades?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Are your children in "grades"?
My 6 yr old just started what I would consider a first grade curriculum, but we school year round and just follow his lead. Most of his books cover a wide range of grade levels, so I guess I could call him whatever I want.
How do others do this?
post #2 of 24
We don't have any "grade level" books, no. I have a child that is great in math and science, horrible in writing. It would kill him to work from a "3rd grade" text going into 5th, and send his head ballooning the other way around.

We tend to stay away from companies that do grade levels, no matter how good their product might be. A grade span, yes, age span, yes, but other than that I find it more detrimental than helpful.

For conversation's sake he's in 4th grade. For academic work, he learns half what he wants to learn and half what happens next in the grand order of things.

ETA: I finally got my hands on a copy of Understood Betsy, and it makes so much sense! I'm putting it on our reading list next year as a discussion book. It sums up perfectly how I feel about grade levels.
post #3 of 24
Only in the sense that we must declare something on our annual paper work. It has very little resemblance to what we actually do though. LOL
post #4 of 24
People always ask "what grade is he in" and I answer "he's 10."

Heh.

If they look puzzled I say "he would be in grade 5 if he were in school, but we don't worry about grade levels... we can do more advanced and less advanced stuff to meet his needs in different areas." Which usually elicits a response of "oh, yes, of course, that sounds like a great benefit of homeschooling" or something to that effect.

Now my son is not terribly "behind" in any particular area so we do use many materials that are "graded". For the most part, the "right grade" is in fact the right level for him to use, so it's useful as a guide.

But I do really like the ones that give an age range or even a grade range instead, or a different leveling system altogether... and if I had a child who was "behind" in certain areas I would certainly stick to those materials more than graded ones.

The "Critical Thinking Company" books are great for this... They use A1, A2, A3, B1, B2... etc... with suggestions like "K-3" for A levels and "4-6" for B levels (or whatever, it varies depending on the specific series).

NOEO Science is also gradeless.. there are three subjects which repeat over "Level I" (roughly grades 1-3) and "Level II" (roughly grades 4-6), you just jump in wherever you fit best and go from there. And they're just starting their "Level III" which is middle school.

RightStart Math uses letter levels for their homeschool program. They do roughly equate to grade levels, but only roughly. There are lots of kids in "grade 3" but only level B, for instance. I think it's great because kids can work where they need to be... though I do find lots of parents on the forums panicking because they've just realized that their child is "behind" and worrying that they won't be able to "catch up"... Fortunately the other parents usually quickly remind them that it's better to finish elementary school math at an older age but actually UNDERSTAND it than to finish it "on time" but be terrible at it and hate it!

If you do something like Ambleside or design-your-own Charlotte Mason, you often arrange things in "year one" and "year two", but it's not the same as school grades, just the year of the program. For instance, the Ambleside year one curriculum is pretty challenging and it's often suggested you start there, even if your kid is like 8 or 9 years old, if you're just switching to CM or something. Also if you're using a literature-based program like CM, you encounter the grade-level textbook problem less often.

Anyway, I do find that keeping DS's "grade" in mind is useful just for giving me a GENERAL expectation of what he might be expected to be able to do at any given year... but only VERY general.

Phew, long-winded but hopefully helpful.
post #5 of 24
We aren't there yet, but I wanted to echo the others...I am not planning on keeping him at a specific "grade level" at all. If he is working beyond where he "would" be in some things, we will move ahead...just like if he struggles with some, we will work where he is at that point.
Like LilyGrace said, for conversation sake, I am sure I will keep is "would be" level in mind, but we plan to work completely at his pace, not grade level.
post #6 of 24
My son is finishing first grade. Next school year he'll be a 2nd grader. My daughter is starting kindergarten. Never give it a thought. I mean, how hard is it to just know an equivalent school year, you know? And why make a simple question into a big answer? It's just small talk and not huge conversations on actual subject aptitude...so yes, my kids are in grades.
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonyhobbit View Post
Are your children in "grades"?
My 6 yr old just started what I would consider a first grade curriculum, but we school year round and just follow his lead. Most of his books cover a wide range of grade levels, so I guess I could call him whatever I want.
How do others do this?
Whenever we are asked I have to stop and think what grade level my kids would be in if they were in school. I must look like an idiot.

We use Miquon for math for my youngest three and the kids move back and forth through the books (roughly gr 1 - 3) depending on what they are interested in learning. Reading/spelling is based on where they are atm and isn't grade specific.

My oldest is doing work far above his grade level for the most part - handwriting is the probable exception.

Content areas - science, history, geography, etc are based on interest and rarely involve schoolish materials.
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALittleBitCrunchy View Post
I mean, how hard is it to just know an equivalent school year, you know? And why make a simple question into a big answer? It's just small talk and not huge conversations on actual subject aptitude...so yes, my kids are in grades.
LOL, well, it can be pretty hard for me. It was easy when my kids were within a year of school entry like yours are now, but I honestly don't know unless I do the math where my older kids would be in school. I think my kids would be in 9th, 7th, 5th and 1st grades ... but the school my eldest attends part-time has her in 10th and 11th-grade courses right now and my middle two would be (I think) a grade lower in the US because of differing cutoffs. I certainly wouldn't turn it into a huge conversation, but I can think of a couple of times when I've been asked and my stumbling confusion has prompted further questions about why I don't know... which has provoked a brief conversation about our educational approach.

Edited to correct ... oops I think my youngest is a KG'er.

Miranda
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
Ben's birthday is right around the cutoff, so I always have to do the math, too when asked. I think he would just now be finishing up kindergarten if he was in school, but he's doing first grade work, and I think I'll just go by their birthdays. 5 yrs old is K, 6 years old is 1st, etc. it's all so random.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALittleBitCrunchy View Post
My son is finishing first grade. Next school year he'll be a 2nd grader. My daughter is starting kindergarten. Never give it a thought. I mean, how hard is it to just know an equivalent school year, you know? And why make a simple question into a big answer? It's just small talk and not huge conversations on actual subject aptitude...so yes, my kids are in grades.
ITA. If we were in school, we'd be 2nd grade and kindergarten. That has no bearing whatsoever on what work the kids do. We do use some graded curriculum, but they work through it at their own pace, so their chronological grade rarely, if ever, actually matches the age printed on the front of their books. This is just what I'd expect from a differentiated curriculum at a decent school. If my child was in second grade at school but working on third grade math, I wouldn't expect the teacher to forget what grade she was in, or give a cryptic answer if asked.

I also see no reason to not give the simple answer to a stranger if they ask. My answer is just "2nd grade and kindergarten" and then if it is relevant, "and we homeschool."

For some classes around here or activities you need to know what grade your child is. And honestly, it's pretty hard not to know, when you've watched their friends progress to school. Rather like knowing their age.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALittleBitCrunchy View Post
My son is finishing first grade. Next school year he'll be a 2nd grader. My daughter is starting kindergarten. Never give it a thought.
I agree in a way. I don't like refering to grades but I will do it just to keep things simple. It helps me to go by grades for recordkeeping and for keeping up with everything. But when people ask I just say the grade they would be in if they were in a school. It keeps the conversation simple. My kids are usually right at grade level (for their age) anyway and only go about six months to a year ahead in most instances and that's usually in the spring of the school year right before summer when they get started on the upcoming school year a little bit early.
post #12 of 24
I don't homeschool, but I'm asking out of pure curiosity. If you don't use "grades" then how do you know when you're done?
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantaja View Post
I don't homeschool, but I'm asking out of pure curiosity. If you don't use "grades" then how do you know when you're done?
When you're done with what? First grade? Or schooling in general?

Grades don't really matter, because when Ben finishes his history book, we'll move to the next one. When he finishes his math book, we'll move to the next one, etc. He might start a 1st grade phonics book in January and a 2nd grade science book in March. There are no arbitrary dates to stick to. Most of his books are actually not graded. His phonics, science and history are for all ages in a given range-say K through 4th grade-and the child works at their level regardles of age. His curricula right now goes to about 5-6 grade, depending the subject. When he gets to the end of these books, I'll find something at the next level.

I don't have a big one, yet, but you can graduate your child by their age-the school year they turn 18, say, you put in college applications, or graduate them. You can work to the end of a curriculum, and graduate them whenever they finish-be it at 18 or 16. Or, you can let other factors decide. I plan for my kids to start picking up college course around age 14. Community colleges offer high school level courses. In fact, a lot of freshman courses are repeats of highschool courses. Why not skip the high school level courses, and go straight to college? Then they will gradually transition to taking more college courses until they are full time, then transfer to university.
Of course, this plan is still very far off for us, and will depend on our children's needs and our family situation at the time. They may not want want to go to college. They may choose a vocational program instead (in that case, they would have to negotiate on acceptible age for entrance), or they may want to continue to study at home.
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantaja View Post
I don't homeschool, but I'm asking out of pure curiosity. If you don't use "grades" then how do you know when you're done?
Done with school? When there's a college degree in his hands. So far, our tentative plans include cc classes at the high school level. Other than that, when he's done, I guess. When outside learning takes place more than home learning, when he's a giving member of society, when he takes over completely and sets his own path.
post #15 of 24
We don't do grades, either - with a 10 year old reading at 10th grade level, yet not so good at math at this point, if he were in school he'd be at different grade levels for different subjects.

Most of the time people ask out of curiosity / to compare to their school kids. I usually say something like, "if he were in school, 5th grade, but we don't do grade levels since everyone learns things at different paces and one can't be in 10th, 6th and 4th grade at the same. He reads at 10th grade level, for example."

The easiest way to figure a "grade" is to take their age and subtract 5.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALittleBitCrunchy View Post
My son is finishing first grade. Next school year he'll be a 2nd grader. My daughter is starting kindergarten. Never give it a thought. I mean, how hard is it to just know an equivalent school year, you know? And why make a simple question into a big answer? It's just small talk and not huge conversations on actual subject aptitude...so yes, my kids are in grades.
I guess in part I don't like the simple answer because I think the age/grade lockstep is one of the most problematic aspects of public school. We tend to say that we homeschool so we don't really think much about grade level, although our dd would be in 5th. This is actually a bit untrue as her b-day was a few days beyond the cut-off so she would be in 4th. However, when it comes time to sign up for library writing classes or math camps her actual working grade level in the subject may be more appropriate. So, the simple answer or the more detailed one depends upon the audience.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantaja View Post
I don't homeschool, but I'm asking out of pure curiosity. If you don't use "grades" then how do you know when you're done?
We are in it for the learning and not the 'grades' so I hope that our dd will never be done! However, she will probably leave for college at some point. We will be making sure she has fulfilled the requirements for the schools she is interested in attending.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
I mean, how hard is it to just know an equivalent school year, you know?
If it's so simple, then why is it not so simple for everyone else? Why are WE the ones who have to do the age-to-grade conversion? Why isn't it just okay to take a 10-year-old as a 10-year-old? Doesn't everyone else already know that 10yo "equals" grade 5?

Quote:
I guess in part I don't like the simple answer because I think the age/grade lockstep is one of the most problematic aspects of public school.
Exactly. And not just in school, but it's become pervasive across our society. Kids aren't considered by their age or their individual development level, but by their school grade. Like others have said, as homeschoolers we have to be aware of the 'equivalent' grade level for registration in various activities. But why do these activities go by grade and not just by age?

Grade level has become the number one qualifier and describer of a child. Which, because of arbitrary cut-offs which vary from place to place, means some kids just a week in age apart are different grade levels, and THAT is how most people think of them. You hear "third grader" and "fourth grader" and you assume that one is a year more advanced than the other, when really they're only a week apart (or whatever) and are, in all likelihood, more socially and developmentally similar than kids a year apart would be.

School grade divisions are somewhat arbitrary, and the numbers are just a convenience for labelling and sorting. It's arguably necessary in a large group setting like public (and private) schools, but I really really really strongly feel that it should NOT be the primary way of labelling your child in terms of their level of development/achievement/etc. outside of school.

Heck, you even see it in things like newspaper articles about kids who have done something like won some sports trophy... "John, a 6th grader at Our City Elementary school".... As though that's the most important thing to know about them, their primary IDENTITY. Why not "John, an avid stamp collector" or "John, an 11-year-old cat lover with dreams of becoming a vet"? If it's just for 'placement', to label their age... then just give their AGE!

Why has it become the FIRST question asked upon meeting a child? "What grade are you in?" Arguably it's because a child's life IS school, their life revolves around their classroom, teacher, and homework. And I think that's a darn shame. That their arbitrary placement within a school level has become their identity. That the thing most people consider most important about a child is that identity of a particular school level, rather than anything ELSE about them.

If you're just asking to know how old they are, then you should be satisfied knowing how OLD they are.

Heck, I find myself having the reverse problem. When someone tells me their kid is in grade 4 or whatever, it's close to meaningless to me. I do the math and say "ah, so he's around 9 years old, then?" That has more meaning to me. It's about the individual, not about the label some institution put on him.

Do we go around introducing adults the same way? "This is my husband George. He's a third-year employee on the 2nd level of the junior payscale." We either take them at face value, or if we need to know their age, we ask their age. It's almost, to my way of thinking, a way of demeaning and devaluing children, by referring to them as their label in reference to a mass group, instead of as unique individuals.

I should make it clear that I don't have anything against the idea of 'levels' for academic instruction. It certainly can be quite useful, and like I said, arguably necessary for a public school setting. It's the pervasiveness of this labeling OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL that drives me bananas. It is NOT the most important aspect of a child and shouldn't be the primary means of identifying them. School grades are for school... age and development should be for everything else.
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by tankgirl73 View Post
Heck, you even see it in things like newspaper articles about kids who have done something like won some sports trophy... "John, a 6th grader at Our City Elementary school".... As though that's the most important thing to know about them, their primary IDENTITY. Why not "John, an avid stamp collector" or "John, an 11-year-old cat lover with dreams of becoming a vet"? If it's just for 'placement', to label their age... then just give their AGE!
Ooh, good rant! I agree with you totally.

Miranda
post #20 of 24
Great post tankgirl!! That's exactly it
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