What on earth is The Pagan Baby Campaign?

[geiamama]

I was browsing the internet looking for Pagan and Wiccan baby gifts for DD's 1st birthday and I can across this site:

http://asksistermarymartha.blogspot....y-reunion.html

In it it says...



All the children would put their loose change in a can on Sister's desk. Each pagan baby cost five dollars. When we got five dollars the children would pick a name for the pagan baby, send the five dollars to the priest at the mission who would snatch the baby from an eternity of suffering and baptize it with the name we sent along.




I've looked everywhere I can think of for an answer but with no luck so I thought I would ask the most well-informed women I know, though I'm not sure I will be very happy when I hear the answer.

What on earth is The Pagan Baby Campaign?

[LionessMom]

they are paying the church to bless the souls of babies that are in hell so that they may go to heaven. they give them names b/c they dont know them.they think they are saving the souls of pagan babies. what they are really doing is raising more money to give the church.

i dont know how other people feel, but i personally am quite offended that they would think they needed to save any pagan babies. and why would they be in hell. pagans dont believe in hell. i am sorry but it makes me so mad the audacity of people. to actually teach children that pagans go to hell.

just my personal opinion.

[hibana]

I seem to remember this being mentioned in a novel I read as a kid... it seemed completely bizarre to me then, and still bizarre now. Actually, that's my feeling on much of what the Catholic Church does, but I digress.

Interesting 1 Peter quote in the comments on the blog!

[Masel]

Hangs head. In my Catholic grade school in third grade I remember participating in the pagan baby program. I was very drawn to the naming process but don't remember much else. This would have been the mid to late 70s. I'm not sure if they still do this.

[geiamama]

Ah. I didn't think I'd like the answer...

I am proud Pagan as are my children - well my DS is, my DD has only just discovered her nose so the deeper complexities of faith may be beyond her - and I too am deeply offended by the idea that we need to be saved.

My son, at four mind, once came home from a school trip to the local church in tears because he was told by the vicar that the reason his two little sisters died in mummy's tummy was a punishment from god and that he and his mummy would be burnt forever in hell. TO A FOUR-YEAR-OLD!!!

He's much more aware of prejudice now and understands that people are either afraid of what they don't understand or are genuinely, though miisguidedly, trying to help what they see as lost souls. We taught him that generosity of spirit to those that judge us honours us as well as our faith.

But he's also not a push-over. When he was told by his teacher that for halloween they were going to do a witch with a green face and a warty face, he staged a 'sit-in'. He refused to participate so the school called me. I went in and very publically, in front of the teachers and students, praised him for not supporting religious stereotypes.

He's so pro-pagan he managed to convince the school to do craft projects for the Sabbats as well as for all the other Christian, Muslim, Ba Hai and Hindu festivals.

[EnviroBecca]

Wow, how weird!

Seems to me, if the priest at the mission were truly a good Christian, he'd grab those babies and baptize them as fast as he could, money or no money. I mean, if he believed that baptism is what makes the difference between going to heaven rather than hell, which is what some Christian groups believe but not all. But perhaps that's what really was happening, and this sponsorship program was (is?) only a means of encouraging contributions to support missionary work, not an actual $5=1 baptism and we won't do it until we get paid.

[zinemama]

This is something you tend to read about in novels set in Catholic families/schools way back in the day. I don't think the Catholic church is pursuing this program anymore. But maybe some currently practicing Catholics can weigh in?

[geiamama]

Originally Posted by zinemama

This is something you tend to read about in novels set in Catholic families/schools way back in the day. I don't think the Catholic church is pursuing this program anymore. But maybe some currently practicing Catholics can weigh in?

I don't want to put words into other people's mouths but my bestfriend/partner is a (somewhat lapsed) Catholic and he had never heard of it either. I wonder whether it was something that wasn't practised in Britain.

[xekomaya]

They used to do this when my mom was in school --early 60's- collect money to save pagan babies. It was not, as a previous poster mentioned, for babies in hell -- it was supporting missionary services in non-Catholic countries.

Sister Mary Martha, in her post, was making fun of the old way the money collections were "sold" to Catholic students (buying & naming a pagan baby was a marketing technique to raise funds). Catholics still collect money for missionary services, but the pagan baby concept has looong been phased out for being ridiculous and not PC.

[LionessMom]

Originally Posted by xekomaya

They used to do this when my mom was in school --early 60's- collect money to save pagan babies. It was not, as a previous poster mentioned, for babies in hell -- it was supporting missionary services in non-Catholic countries.

Sister Mary Martha, in her post, was making fun of the old way the money collections were "sold" to Catholic students (buying & naming a pagan baby was a marketing technique to raise funds). Catholics still collect money for missionary services, but the pagan baby concept has looong been phased out for being ridiculous and not PC.

"I've lost count of how many pagan babies we have purchased from the jaws of hell over the years. "

quoted from tha article. this is why i posted that they were saving them from hell. i read the article and she clearly states that they are buying pagan babies souls from hell to end the eternity of suffering.

i am glad they dont do that anymore. it is a ridiculous thing to think that pagan babies need saving or are actually in hell.

[Callimom]

Originally Posted by geiamama

Ah. I didn't think I'd like the answer...

I am proud Pagan as are my children - well my DS is, my DD has only just discovered her nose so the deeper complexities of faith may be beyond her - and I too am deeply offended by the idea that we need to be saved.

My son, at four mind, once came home from a school trip to the local church in tears because he was told by the vicar that the reason his two little sisters died in mummy's tummy was a punishment from god and that he and his mummy would be burnt forever in hell. TO A FOUR-YEAR-OLD!!!

He's much more aware of prejudice now and understands that people are either afraid of what they don't understand or are genuinely, though miisguidedly, trying to help what they see as lost souls. We taught him that generosity of spirit to those that judge us honours us as well as our faith.

But he's also not a push-over. When he was told by his teacher that for halloween they were going to do a witch with a green face and a warty face, he staged a 'sit-in'. He refused to participate so the school called me. I went in and very publically, in front of the teachers and students, praised him for not supporting religious stereotypes.

He's so pro-pagan he managed to convince the school to do craft projects for the Sabbats as well as for all the other Christian, Muslim, Ba Hai and Hindu festivals.

Your son sounds awesome. Good for him and good for you for teaching him and giving him the confidence to stand up for himself.

Karen

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by LionessMom

"I've lost count of how many pagan babies we have purchased from the jaws of hell over the years. "

quoted from tha article. this is why i posted that they were saving them from hell. i read the article and she clearly states that they are buying pagan babies souls from hell to end the eternity of suffering.

i am glad they dont do that anymore. it is a ridiculous thing to think that pagan babies need saving or are actually in hell.

Yes, but in the sense that if the pagan children were baptized, then they would later go to Heaven, or have a chance to, whereas if they weren't, they likely wouldn't. As if you prevented a person from a life of crime and said I snatched him from the jaws of hell! The nun is speaking in a tongue-in-cheek way, pushing a bit of fun at such a silly campaign and the way it was presented. People did used to talk that way about this kind of missionary work.

Theologically, it would be impossible to get someone out of Hell or even Limbo once they were there, so it is not likely there would be a campaign for that purpose!

[xekomaya]

Originally Posted by LionessMom

"I've lost count of how many pagan babies we have purchased from the jaws of hell over the years. "

quoted from tha article. this is why i posted that they were saving them from hell. i read the article and she clearly states that they are buying pagan babies souls from hell to end the eternity of suffering.

She's JOKING. She means saving them from hell by not letting them go there in the first place because their 5$ donations (hence, "buying"). It's theologically inaccurate to say that Catholics believe there is any way to buy (beg, barter, or steal) a baby out of hell. She's an old school Catholic nun with a dry sarcastic humor, writing to a Catholic audience who remembers the whole thing.

i am glad they dont do that anymore. it is a ridiculous thing to think that pagan babies need saving or are actually in hell.

Actually, the Catholic Church hasn't changed any of its teaching.

[holyhelianthus]

I think the Catholic's use of "pagan" is not the same as Pagan as in the spiritual practice. I could be totally off but often when I hear other Christians use the term pagan they aren't referring to Pagans, Wiccans, etc. At least not directly.

[greenmagick]

My mom used to talk about this. It was when she was in elementary school in the early 60s. They used the term pagan as meaning non-christian or unbaptized. There was a belief that babies that died before being baptized were stuck in purgatory so they would pray for them etc to help them move to heaven.

I went to catholic school for 13 years and my mom is the only one I ever heard it from.

[LionessMom]

Originally Posted by xekomaya

Actually, the Catholic Church hasn't changed any of its teaching.

as a former Catholic I know they havent changed the teachings, i am just glad i never heard this Pagan baby campaign while i was at catechism school.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by LionessMom

as a former Catholic I know they havent changed the teachings, i am just glad i never heard this Pagan baby campaign while i was at catechism school.

I was pretty sure that the unbaptized baby teaching has been revised? They used to teach that they went to Limbo, now I thought it was left more open-ended?

[astar326]

Originally Posted by geiamama

Ah. I didn't think I'd like the answer...

I am proud Pagan as are my children - well my DS is, my DD has only just discovered her nose so the deeper complexities of faith may be beyond her - and I too am deeply offended by the idea that we need to be saved.

My son, at four mind, once came home from a school trip to the local church in tears because he was told by the vicar that the reason his two little sisters died in mummy's tummy was a punishment from god and that he and his mummy would be burnt forever in hell. TO A FOUR-YEAR-OLD!!!

He's much more aware of prejudice now and understands that people are either afraid of what they don't understand or are genuinely, though miisguidedly, trying to help what they see as lost souls. We taught him that generosity of spirit to those that judge us honours us as well as our faith.

But he's also not a push-over. When he was told by his teacher that for halloween they were going to do a witch with a green face and a warty face, he staged a 'sit-in'. He refused to participate so the school called me. I went in and very publically, in front of the teachers and students, praised him for not supporting religious stereotypes.

He's so pro-pagan he managed to convince the school to do craft projects for the Sabbats as well as for all the other Christian, Muslim, Ba Hai and Hindu festivals.

you must be so proud of your son. i love that he is opening up the minds of so many close minded people.

[xekomaya]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

I was pretty sure that the unbaptized baby teaching has been revised? They used to teach that they went to Limbo, now I thought it was left more open-ended?

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/sto...ns/0605701.htm