questions about recent Hib cases

[idler]

I've only recently started researching Hib because my daughter's ped suggested at her 12-month WBV that we might want to consider it and mentioned the recent cases in Minnesota (she also mentioned the shortage of the vaccine but not WHY there is a shortage, ha). We had intended to skip all of the infant-only vaccines and to delay and space out any others we might decide to get, so she is currently unvaxed.

I've read the CDC Pink Book info and wanted to compare the risk factors listed there with the circumstances of the recent Hib "outbreaks." Every article I've read about the Minnesota cases makes sure to say that the infected children were not in daycare but doesn't mention any of the other risk factors (I haven't read as much about the PA cases). Is there any way to find out more details about these cases?

[JoJo4780]

I live in PA and didn't hear anything about any cases of Hib here. I just read a reply to a news article about the one in MN by Dr. Jay Gordon
http://drjaygordon.com/development/n...esvaccines.asp

We have two kids and only our oldest has had any shots; we started the DTaP series when he was around 16 months old. He had two and then I just didn't get any more. I spoke with our naturopathic dr. and read one of her books and decided that we weren't giving any more. Have you read The Vaccine Book by Dr. Sears? He has some really good info in there and as far as the Hib vaccine it seems to be one of the safer ones (hardly any ingredients), although I've heard some say that there may be a higher risk for diabetes with it. The tough thing about doing research is how do you know what's true on either side? Good luck with your search and if you find any more info on the meningitis will you post it? Wish I could help you with that.

[idler]

Here's a link to a thread about the PA cases: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...php?p=13480303.

I haven't read The Vaccine Book. I've been able to rule out most of the vaccines--at least for now--just based on the info in the Pink Book and in the pamphlet we got from the doctor. Not the intended effect, I know, but every time the pamphlet says, "Clearly the benefits of the X vaccine outweigh the risks," I am inclined to disagree.

I'll post if I find any more details.

ETA: Thanks for the Gordon link.

[ammiga]

Dr. Sears is very pro-vax. It is no surprise that he thinks Hib is safe and necessary. He makes a ton of money on book sales and giving vaxes in his office. I take what he recommends with a MAJOR grain of salt.

The things that I always am curious about, but are never reported, in the Hib cases are:

- whether or not the kids were breastfed
- what kind of foods they ate
- how the parents treated symptoms (using fever suppressors, etc.)
- when the kids had received other vaxes (I think they compromise the immune system forever, but even more so for a week or so)

[idler]

Originally Posted by ammiga

The things that I always am curious about, but are never reported, in the Hib cases are:

- whether or not the kids were breastfed
- what kind of foods they ate
- how the parents treated symptoms (using fever suppressors, etc.)
- when the kids had received other vaxes (I think they compromise the immune system forever, but even more so for a week or so)

Yes, those are the things I would like to know too, along with:

- whether there were school-age kids in the household
- whether the kids were otherwise healthy

Cynical me thinks it's obvious why the daycare status is reported. I don't understand why other of the CDC-outlined risk factors aren't addressed as well.

[MsGrizzle]

One of my favorite Hib studies:

Breastfeeding protects against hib and non-type b strains, and protection goes beyond the time of nursing:

http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/26/2/443

Have you seen this series? Hib is discussed in part 2 but it is good to start with part one.

[gcgirl]

The problem with Dr. Sears' HiB discussion in his book is he doesn't talk about MY major reasons for not giving the vax: serotype conversion and the changes eliminating HiB from general circulation causes in our natural mix of bacteria. Studies have found higher levels of staph in people who have had the HiB vax. This really, really worries me, on both a personal and a public health level.

[stacey05]

I also read somewhere (I think it was Hilary Butler who quoted this) that when the hib vaccine was introduced, pnuemococcal meningitis went up. There was a study that when you removed pneumococcal strains, hi went up and so the opposite would be true as well. I just can't find this anywhere else. Does anybody know if this is true...when you remove hib, pneumo has more of a chance of moving in? This worries me because, even though hib is a bad bug when it goes invasive, some pneumo strains are antibiotic resistent and more prevalent. I just wish I could find out if this is really true. This is my main reason for not getting hib right now...still trying to find out more. I wonder if they both keep each other in check most of the time? Also, does anyone know if hib vaccine is linked in anyway to autism in a toddler? I know that some people think mmr has been linked, but I noticed on the cdc schedule the 4th hib is also given around the same time as mmr...just curious?

Stacey

[japonica]

I also read somewhere (I think it was Hilary Butler who quoted this) that when the hib vaccine was introduced, pnuemococcal meningitis went up. There was a study that when you removed pneumococcal strains, hi went up and so the opposite would be true as well. I just can't find this anywhere else. Does anybody know if this is true...when you remove hib, pneumo has more of a chance of moving in? This worries me because, even though hib is a bad bug when it goes invasive, some pneumo strains are antibiotic resistent and more prevalent. I just wish I could find out if this is really true. This is my main reason for not getting hib right now...still trying to find out more. I wonder if they both keep each other in check most of the time? Also, does anyone know if hib vaccine is linked in anyway to autism in a toddler? I know that some people think mmr has been linked, but I noticed on the cdc schedule the 4th hib is also given around the same time as mmr...just curious?

Stacey, you're right it was Hilary and she has an 18-page chapter in FOPTA on how less pathogenic bacteria work to keep others in check...it's funny, Neil Miller also postulates that it was the DTP, along with the increase in antibiotic use/antibiotic resistance that brought about the need for the Hib in the first place...not sure if I agree with that one, but just reading about how all the bacteria evolve in relation to each other, who knows?

Here's a quote from Hilary: "Haemophilus bacteria exert a killing effect on more serious streptococcus pneumoniae and strep pneumo pushes out staph auerus" (Butler 2008:220).

There's a chapter full of studies/papers, but here's a thought for you, note the year of publication:

We have great concern for the increasing prevalence of relatively or absolutely penicillin-resistant pneumococci coupled with increasing relative frequency of pneumococcal diseases as a result of universal Haemophilus vaccination.

Nelson, J.D. et al 1992. "The perilous pneumococcus." The Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal Newsletter. 18(6):12, June.

Can't help you with the autism one though, I'm sure others can.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by japonica

it's funny, Neil Miller also postulates that it was the DTP, along with the increase in antibiotic use/antibiotic resistance that brought about the need for the Hib in the first place...

Viera Schiebner believes this to be the case as well. Presents some compelling evidence (albeit "circumstantial" ) in her book.

[an_domhan]

Originally Posted by Marnica

Viera Schiebner believes this to be the case as well. Presents some compelling evidence (albeit "circumstantial" ) in her book.

I'd agree that all of the aforementioned authors don't have tunnel vision when it comes to respecting the fact that humans are not the only organisms on this planet. Try telling a skeptic that... they'll tell you that you are a promoter of infectious disease.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by an_domhan

I'd agree that all of the aforementioned authors don't have tunnel vision when it comes to respecting the fact that humans are not the only organisms on this planet. Try telling a skeptic that... they'll tell you that you are a promoter of infectious disease.

Don't you know I not only promote infectious disease but am a conspiracy theorist as well??

[japonica]

don't you know i not only promote infectious disease but am a conspiracy theorist as well??

Hee hee...guess there's a bunch of us who could be wearing those hats as well.