Help me make them understand

[ChickFamily]

Hello, I have not been on here in awhile but decided to come back as I need a place to keep me strong about things. First here is the post I wrote back about 3 yrs ago about my first son who is circed

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...801&highlight=

I had a baby girl 11/17/2006 so of course she is not circed


Fast forward to 10/01/08, I gave birth to a baby boy who is INTACT!!, many factors obvisouly played into that decision but one of the ones that sealed the deal for my husband was that the insurance would not cover it b/c it is not medically necessary. I have been very happy about this and after just learning so much I feel so much better about this HOWEVER the only thing that is sorda bothering me is my grandmother, both her ex husband (my grandfather) and her current husband were NOT circed but the man she is married to now had to be sometime in the past few years. She is always pressuring me and saying how we need to get it done to Brett even if we have to pay for it b/c she bases it on what all happened with her husband (which I dont know the details) My grandfather (her ex husband) is not circed b/c he was born at home and tells me all the time he wishes he was (however not enough to just go and get it done, but the says b.c he fears the pain and recover and he is older in his late 70's. he says he wishes his mom did do it) All this makes my dh question our decision even after I explain to him all the research but I dont have to worry about it b/c he allready told me he could never watch a circ and so I know Im not taking my son and he wont so he will be fine but how do I convince my grandparents that is the right choice especially when one is not circed and the other one had it done later in life and is happier about it?


Also my oldest is now 5 and Im still having a hard time accepting that we made that decision for him especially not fully educated. I know I cant go back and change it but i wish I could. How do I try to let go of those feelings?

[mysticmomma]

"This is not up for discussion. Please stop talking about my sons genitals."

[hakunangovi]

I think you need to educate all of them. It may be a bit uncomfortable, but try to find out why GM's hubby got circ'd. You can bet it was not for a valid reason, and he lost his foreskin through improper care and advise from the medical profession. Also ask GP why he wishes he had been circ'd. Chances are he has no idea what he would have lost. Many intact men really do not understand how lucky they are. You have all the answers and I'm sure you could change their mind. That way you will have their support rather than a standoff.

[VeezieTG]

alot of that "wanting to be circ'd" that i've seen from guys i know, (younger tho), are because they were one of the only ones intact in school, etc. and got picked on. my bf who is circ'd says he himself has picked on guys who weren't and now regrets it, given his choice to not let it happen to his son! but its around 50/50, as far as i know, now. so your son won't have that problem. you can tell your gm that whatever the reason was that her husband had a late-in-life circ, could have been avoided, and is less likely to happen to your kid than a complication due to circumcision. alot of ppl don't rly get that, but explain it anyways. at long last, no one talks about my kids penises anymore, because every family member who has said something (and friend, and stranger, if i felt the need, lol) has gotten an EARFUL of facts and statistics.

as far as letting go of the feelings about your ds1s circ. all you can do is know that you are always getting better everyday. just like all of us. its a running theme on this board of the oldest kids getting the short end... lol. we just didn't know any better at first. and we learned. and we did what we could. the important thing is to keep on learning. to not give up when it means something to you. to do the best you can. which you are. so be proud.

lots of hugs to you mama.

[tennisdude23]

From personal experiences, the locker room argument is a myth. I never knew the circumcision status of my friends back in HS. Now I am in college, and I still have no clue. There is also a lot more privacy in locker rooms these days than back in the 70s (e.g.: private stalls, curtains, etc). Guys my age don't flaunt around their junk, and frankly everyone gets teased sometime for something. It's usually in good fun, but when it's not people have to learn how to deal with it. While teasing is part of life, it's no cause for genital amputation or any other bodily change.

[tutucrazy]

Most likely your grandfather's circ was totally unnecessary. The only true medical reasons for circ are gangrene, malignancy, serious trauma, or frostbite. Everything else can be managed in another way. My guess is that your grandpa just had a foreskin ignorant doctor.

http://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet7.html

Print this pamphlet for them.

[Friday13th]

I think this is a case where they aren't having anymore children, GM's hubby can't undo his decision (he could restore, of course, but that's not your job to suggest) so you should just take the topic off the table. "I'm sorry you had a bad experience, we are happy with the decision we have made for our son, it is not up for discussion. try the bean dip."

With that generation and coming from the life experience they've had, you could talk until you're blue in the face and print articles until you're out of ink and not make an impact on them. When you think about how hard it is for an adult to come to grips with the fact that his parents removed his foreskin without consent, consider how much harder it must be for an adult to come to grips with the idea that a doctor gave him bad info and he agreed to the amputation of a healthy, enjoyable part of his sexuality. That's a huge shift in thinking that would have to happen and is probably not worth your energy to make it happen. And in the end, you don't have to justify yourself to them.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I have recently came to learn that trying to educate someone who dosnt want to be educated ie older generation that it is just a waste of time.

So here is what I did the last time it came up. "I have researched circ vs intact and I know that circ is a bad thing and is never something I would even consider and I have zero regrets leaving ds intact. So there is no point in discussing it further. If you ever have any questions about being intact that I can answer I would be happy to however I no longer wish to justify leaving ds intact." or very similar words.

It just isnt worth the headache trying to convince someone who dosnt want to be convinced. Meaning older people who will not have more kids in the future.

[perspective]

Think about it this way. Those two men grew up in a world where circumcision was not an option it was "what was done". No one questioned it, it just happened. They both probably had horrible medical treatment when it came to their genitals, through their WHOLE lives. They also grew up in a time where there was no homophobia, so I bet as kids they were made fun of, because everyone else was different, and few of those guys ever heard of a foreskin.


You need to tell them today is a different world, explain that "medical issue" they may have had was really the fault of bad medical care. Tell them that people know what the natural body is and that nearly half the boys born today have foreskins. It is becoming as much as the norm as a circumcised penis is.

And in the end this is your sons, body, tell them that only he can make those decisions, and you will be fully supportive if he does. (although he probably will not want to)

[njeb]

I wouldn't be so quick to give up on someone just because they're older. Some elders are open-minded and willing to learn, and some young people are closed-minded and set in their ways. Besides, older people don't live in a vacuum. They can influence their adult children, and if they have accurate information about circumcision, so much the better. Most of them do not.

To the OP: You know your elders better than I do. You will have to determine if they can digest new information or not.

[Treece]

you could ask why they think it so important for boys to have cosmetic surgery on their genitals but not girls................

or ask if they would be pressuring you if ds were a dd.

[Fyrestorm]

You could always ask which part of her genitals she would have been willing to give up on on her grandmother's whim.

[ChickFamily]

well today Im going over there to make some super hero capes with her and I ask her why he got it done....sorda odd but im going to ask

[hakunangovi]

Curious to learn how it went, and what you found out?

[ChickFamily]

sorry so late on this, I have been busy and sick (recovering from gall bladder surgery) anyway she basically said he kept having problems with it getting infections no matter how much he washed and took care of it. He is happy he had it done and I asked if he mentioned anything different about sex and she said he said there was no difference. Oh well I guess if my son wants it done then has that choice right? Either way Im not going down and getting him done so that is that

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by ChickFamily

he kept having problems with it getting infections no matter how much he washed and took care of it.

That is exactly why he had those infections! I bet all he needed to do is to STOP washing so excessively, while introducing some probiotic (plain yogurt, for example). What he was doing was comparable to douching a vagina all the time: once you wash the good bacteria off, there is nothing there to keep bad bacteria in check.
There are ways to keep a penis clean by using oil, for example, you don't have to soap it to death.

[PuppyFluffer]

I think Yulia is exactly right.

I remember when I was at the Genital Integrity Awareness Week demnstration in Washington DC two years ago, an older man came up and started talking with David Wilson, the man who organizes the event. He was intact but said he wished his parents had him circumcised because he continually had problems. He said no matter how much he washed, he has problems. David asked him if he used soap and he said "of course" and David said "STOP"! He explained to him how irritating soap is to mucosal tissue and that he needed to retract, wash with water and replace the foreskin. He asked the guy if he'd ever gotten soap in his eye and he said yes....then he thought about it and you could see the light bulb go off in his head! I hope that man now has a happy relationship with his foreskin with no more irritation. After the man walked away, David turned to me and said something like 'he must not have been bothered enough by his problems to get circumcised!'.

It's ironic the guys that will say they wished they had been circed as babies yet when they have the power to do so, they don't!

[Bm31]

Originally Posted by tutucrazy

Most likely your grandfather's circ was totally unnecessary. The only true medical reasons for circ are gangrene, malignancy, serious trauma, or frostbite. Everything else can be managed in another way. My guess is that your grandpa just had a foreskin ignorant doctor.

Yeah, I recently came across this firsthand. I got to spend a week with a great aunt while on vacation. Somehow we got on the subject of circ. and even though she is a retired nurse she said she learned more about it from me in an hour than in her whole career. Yay for me, but sad what that says about the medical field.

Anyhow, she said something to the effect of how her dad (my great-granddad) "had" to be circ'd when he was in his 60's. It didn't take too much probing on my part before she said something like, "You know, now that I think about it, they were really treating him for something with the prostate and probably just took advantage of the fact that he had a foreskin to make some extra money." BINGO, there you have it!!!

[KBecks]

I apologized to both my circed sons and that helped me a little. I also told them I would not let any more babies get cut if we had more children in our family. It was hard to tell them, but apologizing was the right thing to do, IMO.

[ChickFamily]

Originally Posted by KBecks

I apologized to both my circed sons and that helped me a little. I also told them I would not let any more babies get cut if we had more children in our family. It was hard to tell them, but apologizing was the right thing to do, IMO.

What is so hard for me though is that Im having trouble not feeling bad about doing it to my first son, I really wished I would of known better you know. I just really didnt search it or discuss it and just went ahead with what the Dr's said a decision I do regret. I just hope my son wont hate me when he is older