Dealing with living in a circumcising society

[Oubliette8]

I was wondering, since there are many people here who are passionately anti-circ, how you deal with living in a society where circumcision is so common? I've been trying to answer this for myself and am having trouble figuring it out. I can't think of anyone to ask in RL, so I thought maybe you ladies (and gents) could help.

I do what I can to educate people about circ and the benefits of leaving a child intact, mostly online, but sometimes the enormity of it all catches up with me. I drive by a billboard for the local hospital and all I can think is, they circumcise babies there. When I see a family with boys, I wonder if their parents have hurt them like that. When I meet new people, I wonder if they are pro, or anti. I live in the Midwest, so I'm sure I'm very much in the minority. I do not have children of my own, yet, but feel the issue is very real and important. Sometimes, just thinking about it upsets me greatly. Sometimes it almost seems to haunt me. I go through periods where I can't get images of screaming babies out of my head.


In any case, I was wondering, has anyone else had this problem? What has helped? Obviously eradicating circumcision would solve the issue, but I was thinking of something a little more immediate I need something to carry me through until that day comes. So... anyone in the same boat? Any ideas? Thanks! -Oubliette8

[Treece]

Welcome to MDC!!!!

How do I deal with living in a circing society? Let me tell you, it is hard. It is very depressing to see little baby boys or male children here because I know they probably are. It breaks my heart. Why don't parents research it?

And then I think about my own journey. I dond't know wehre it came into my mind, but I thought about circing my ds1. I believe it may have came from my very pro-circ mom. I agree to disagree, there isn't any chance of any new boys so..... I digress. My xh said no to circing ds1, so I researched it. I looked to the benefits and dangers. I came across a horrific pic. The deal was sealed. None of my children would ever endure that awful, brutal mutilation. I have lost one relationship over it. If you want details, PM me as the discussions happened on a board here that needs a certain number of posts. In the end, I try to go about my day. I can't help but to think of it. Some days are worse than others. Yesterday was pretty bad. I work in retail so I see ALOT of kids. I just think poor baby, someone should have protected you. I don't know the official rate here, but I suspect it is HIGH. Bible belt and all. I always wonder why but I think it is misinformation and lack of information and lack of support. Everyone else is, their kids are fine. It can be scary to break out of step. Once you do, we are here to catch you That's how I started becoming NOT mainstream.

Now, I co-sleep, no-vax, consider unschool (how will that work....), want to live off grid, closet barefooter, closet nudist, extended nurser (15 mo and going strong ), happily not married, Okie living in poverty (poverty is really sad)


Welcome to MDC and CAC. If you have Any questions ask, this group is great for answering. :

[Ophelia]

Welcome!

I agree, it is extremely difficult and I live in MN which has a HIGH circ rate. Sometimes I try not to think about it. I do the same thing though, see hospitals and know they do circ's. See other little boys and wonder if they had to go through that pain and be cosmetically modified without consent (most likely).

I just do what I can. I have 2 no-circ phrases on each side car window (I have seen people looking at them) and I just got a license plate frame and some great buttons from CafePress to put on DS's backpack and one on my purse. I carry no-circ brochures in my backpack. I think it may have helped, I met someone who is pg and didn't know gender yet. She was leaning toward not circ'ing but was concerned about talking to her H about it. I think talking to her helped and I gave her a brochure (dont' remember if she is having a boy or not).

I print out these brochures:

http://nocirc.org/publish/
http://www.circumstitions.com/Docs/itsaboy.pdf

[VeezieTG]

i'm not sure exactly how accurate this is, and i haven't had time to research it on the aap site, but i'm pretty sure it is pretty accurate. when i had ds2, my midwife had given me basically these numbers. it helps me feel better about my personal struggle to educate other people. i know that the fight to end circ is working! medicaid and insurance companies aren't paying for it anymore. and more and more people are getting the message. we'll keep fighting until no baby boy or girl has to go through this. until then, just stay informed of the current trends and keep your head up. you guys there in the midwest, if the numbers are right, see a little boy? there's a whole 35% chance he's intact! thats high numbers compared to just a couple decades ago...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_p...cumcised_today

[PuppyFluffer]

And it doesnt just entail boys....

I was recently at a hotel and had breakfast there. There was a beautiful woman with a lovely accent working at the breakfast bar and she struck up a conversation about my kids. I asked her where she got her lovely accent and she said she was from Somalia. The very next thought in my mind was 'I wonder if she's circumcised?'.

It's mentally draining thinking of the pain inflicted upon children's genitals around the world. It weighs me down in many ways and truly hurts my heart.

It's been really refreshing to me to have an intact boy. To know that I have not allowed him to be harmed in that way is truly soothing to my soul.

Circumcision has deep and profound ripples through a culture. When you really look into the logic used to justify it, it's depressing.

[Galatea]

Take a break if you are obsessing over it. I had to do that many times in the past. Now I don't get upset anymore, especially b/c I see how well it is going - more and more people leave their babies intact, despite all the nonsense AIDS stories. A wise man said that when it gets down to about 50%, the other side will begin fighting back hard, and that means we are winning. That is what is happening now. Also, what makes me feel better is having all my arguments in a row (b/c I've done them so many times) and knowing that the other side has no argument that wins or convinces. We have all the ethics, science and logic - they just have knee-jerk tradition. It will die. Don't despair.

[Treece]

Originally Posted by VeezieTG

medicaid and insurance companies aren't paying for it anymore. [/url]

I just wanted to add that only about 16 states don't cover it, and it really depends on the insurance company. I do remember when ds1 was being "baked", my ob said they have a hard time getting insurance to pay. THEY started the conversation between xh and me, and I got educated

[Oubliette8]

Thanks guys,

You have assured me that I am fairly normal in this regard. Reading about no-circ bumper stickers intrigued me. I might have to look into that.

And Galatea, you are right. I need to remember to take breaks when it starts overwhelming me. Everybody, afterall, is entitled to a break every now and then.

-Oubliette

[njeb]

Originally Posted by Oubliette8

Thanks guys,

You have assured me that I am fairly normal in this regard. Reading about no-circ bumper stickers intrigued me. I might have to look into that.

And Galatea, you are right. I need to remember to take breaks when it starts overwhelming me. Everybody, afterall, is entitled to a break every now and then.

-Oubliette

I'm not Galatea, but she's absolutely right.
I take frequent breaks. When I can't stand the heat anymore, I get out of the kitchen. Once I've cooled down, I can get right back to posting again.

[Treece]

njeb, I think most of us take frequent breaks. I know I do. I go a posting binge and then I stop for a while. Right now, I'm binging Also, I avoid mainstream sites. i don't have to look to know what is there

(i wrote a longer, better post but cyber space ate it)

[jenP]

It is depressing. I wish I knew how to deal. I can understand that many people who didn't have access to good information circ out of being misinformed, pressured by docs in-laws husbands etc. I can deal with that. I try to get word out there in any way I can, and I feel like, if the problem is ignorance then the answer is education, right? But then I come across people like my next door neighbors, about to give birth any day. All the information in the world is not getting through to them. It is this kind of scenario that REALLY gets me down, people who have all the information and still decide to cut. I just can't understand, where is the kindness???
I understand the mom who has her kid circ'd, and then when someone shows her a video says, "wow, if only someone had told me this before I never would have done it."
What I can't understand is the mom who sees a video while pregnant and says "It's no big deal, and it is important to keep up our cultural tradition* so of course we will do it."

*they mean American culture and tradition. They are not from any faith that has a tradition of circumcision.
This really gets me down, that people can KNOW the pain involved and inflict it anyway, on their own child. Every time I see her pregnant belly I want to puke, thinking that poor innocent baby floating in there has no idea the welcome he is in for.
So as you see, I'm not dealing well... anyone else got any more tips??

Jen

[tennisdude23]

Originally Posted by jenP

It is depressing. I wish I knew how to deal. I can understand that many people who didn't have access to good information circ out of being misinformed, pressured by docs in-laws husbands etc. I can deal with that. I try to get word out there in any way I can, and I feel like, if the problem is ignorance then the answer is education, right? But then I come across people like my next door neighbors, about to give birth any day. All the information in the world is not getting through to them. It is this kind of scenario that REALLY gets me down, people who have all the information and still decide to cut. I just can't understand, where is the kindness???
I understand the mom who has her kid circ'd, and then when someone shows her a video says, "wow, if only someone had told me this before I never would have done it."
What I can't understand is the mom who sees a video while pregnant and says "It's no big deal, and it is important to keep up our cultural tradition* so of course we will do it."

*they mean American culture and tradition. They are not from any faith that has a tradition of circumcision.
This really gets me down, that people can KNOW the pain involved and inflict it anyway, on their own child. Every time I see her pregnant belly I want to puke, thinking that poor innocent baby floating in there has no idea the welcome he is in for.
So as you see, I'm not dealing well... anyone else got any more tips??

Jen

Try to get them to define "American culture and tradition," and I bet you would just get a long silence. If that proves to be the case, I personally don't think culture and tradition is the problem.

[jenP]

Originally Posted by tennisdude23

Try to get them to define "American culture and tradition," and I bet you would just get a long silence. If that proves to be the case, I personally don't think culture and tradition is the problem.

Oh, no, absolutely it has little to do with culture or tradition. That is just what they are hiding behind. It is 100% Dad is circumcised and has to convince himself it is an important part of our culture and a proud, noble family tradition that he is a part of and he must uphold. If he admitted to himself that he is cut just because the doctors didn't even give his mom a choice in 1970, and maybe his dad is (if even his dad is) because he was in the service and he didn't have a choice, and most likely his grandpa and great-grandpa and on back are not (yeah, big family "tradition," huh?), then he might have to question what was done to him and face the unpleasant fact that his penis is missing something and he was assaulted as a baby.
But it still boils down to, they have the information, they know the incredible pain it will cause, but they are still willing to circumcise for their own selfish reasons (i.e. protecting dad's fragile ego and conforming to what they think is the current fashion. Big time conformists here. Never mind that just over half are cutting these days.) Again I ask, if people can know what circ is about, and do it anyway, where is the kindness in this world?

Jen

[Treece]

I really don't understand the tradition argument. Whose traditions? I mean, there are two parents invloved from two different backgrounds. I would ask her if she would circ her dd if dh were of a female circing tradition.

[Dev]

Dear Oubliette8:

I too currently live in the mid-west and hate the fact that there is such a high circ. rate in this area on earth. As a male who lives among the minority of those who adamantly oppose infant / childhood circ., I get somewhat depressed at times that the rates are so high in the mid-west (approx. 75-80%). The best we can do is to continue to speak out, and donate whatever we can monetarily to those tax exempt orgs. that help educate the public and protect little boys from unnecessary genital cutting / amputations. Cultural changes take time, please realize this. But remember, all major civil rights movements began with only a few loud voices, a minority. In time, us genital integrity intactivists WILL succeed in ending the brutal cultural practice of amputating the prepuces of little boys in the 21st century.

Personally, I educate parents whenever I have the chance, and bring up the topic as often as necessary. I know I am making a difference by just bringing up the topic which has been so taboo and customary over the past 50 or 60 yrs. Last, month I gave numerous articles and pamphlets to a first time pregnant mom I work with and told her to read them thoroughly. She thanked me after reading them. I felt glad that my input contributed to not only preventing her from consenting to the routine circumcision of her newborn boy, but in empowering and educating her about problems that prevail which could place her boy at risk of being circumcised AFTER the newborn period. Unfortunately, as the newborn circ. rates drops in our country, there will be an increase in circumcisions for boys in their early childhood years. This can be attributed to uneducated, ignorant, unethical doctors, who continue to promote the multiple “benefits” of circumcision and either cause problems (forced retraction for cleaning purposes) due to ill advise, or worse yet, perceive medical problems (i.e. non-retractable prepuce of a 4 yr. old) that are unjustified.

Take pride and congratulate yourself that your efforts, little by little, are making a difference. Keep up the fight and continue to speak out. Frequenting websites and blogs that advocate and share our heartfelt mission always brings a bit of peace and reassurance to me that I am not alone and that I am helping protect little boys who cannot speak up and protect themselves from abusive, unnecessary amputations of parts of their penises in the 21st century.
Devin

[Greg B]

Tips on how to convince someone with irrational fears and insecurities about sex?

Or tips on how to know when you are in a situation of "you can lead a horse to water..."?

Irrational fears and insecurities (perhaps another way to state it would be a hyperactive risk averseness) are very difficult to deal with in my experience. Sometimes I have been succeessful using patience and repeating the logic and explaining how the risk and uncertainty can be factored into the logical arguments. But there was some trust between us and a wliingness to give each other's point of view consideration.

Regards

[jenP]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Tips on how to convince someone with irrational fears and insecurities about sex?

Or tips on how to know when you are in a situation of "you can lead a horse to water..."?

How about tips on dealing psychologically with the realization that we're basically surrounded by people who don't give a flying fig about basic human rights... even for their own children?

Jen

[mjg013]

I struggle as well. It helps to be an activist. I carry literature, I start conversations with pregnant women. I educate people on a regular basis. And there are people that don't want to be educated. There are people who are so defensive about their right to circumcise their kids that they will get nasty. I just refuse to engage those people. I find like minded people who can be supportive. And I remind myself that saving even one little boy from circumcision is a victory.

[tammyswanson]

It can be very hard, especially when you give someone the information and then find out later that they went ahead and let someone do that to their child anyway.

However, I told myself that yes, I do feel sickened by this, but instead of just feeling rage, depressed, etc that I should be proactive and start doing something about it. I start spreading the word anyway and anywhere I can. I donated to the nocirc.org ad campaign. I post online on mom websites, on yahoo answers in the mens health and pregnancy columns. I'm also planning on printing out information about circ and putting them inside baby books at the stores. I also wrote letters to my governor and medicaid director telling them that circ is unnecessary and a waste of taxpayers money.

There is a lot you can do, to spread the word! The thing that got me a lot happier was hearing about the guy who sued his circumcisers at age 19 and won! This is a bright spot in the otherwise dark circumcision universe. Speak up and out against this, try to inform as many people as you can about the misinformation that is being perpetuated by our doctors. Find ways that you want to show others how wrong this is to do to babies without their consent. It's one thing to consent to a medical procedure for a child that is sick..but circ is a cosmetic procedure, it's not done for 'sick kids'.