Holistic Circumcision? - Page 2

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by Smokering

Well, yes. There is nothing funny about circumcision. Being pleasant is one thing, but joking is entirely inappropriate. Again, remember that I view circumcision as ethically analogous to FGM - wouldn't you find it disturbing if a practitioner of FGM joked about the procedure? At the very least, joking makes light of the sacrifice being made, which seems particularly obnoxious given that it is a significant sacrifice, and one which the child is not making voluntarily.

We're battling semantics here. I'd be POed if the mohel was making light of the sacrifice as well, or joking over the pain my child is experiencing. But that isn't what happens. The humor that accompanies a bris is a reflection of the joy of the community for a new baby boy entering into an age-old covenant. I don't know how else to say it, but nobody's laughing about anything inappropriate. Please remember that I am ant-RIC and take my word that I'd be pissed if anything like that was said.

[Smokering]

I was thinking specifically of non-Jewish circumcision, in which no covenant is involved. If humour is an important component of the Jewish ceremony that's a little different, although his statement about circ being worse for the parents would still be very inappropriate.

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by smeisnotapirate

While I don't agree with his assessment of the wonderful-ness of circumcision, I think he is MUCH more qualified to perform one than anyone in a hospital. How many residents have performed a quarter of the number of circumcisions as he has? In the case of surgery, I'd go with experience, and I think that's what he's advertising. THAT part is irrefutable. He has done more circumcisions than anyone in any hospital. Also, the ones performed by mohelim take much less time, which I think would also make him feel like he could advertise a less painful experience.

Of course he uses pain relief, and so do all Orthodox mohelim. There's no need to demonize the men who do this procedure to disagree with them.

If we can keep this thread out of the realm of making untrue assumptions about Jewish circumcision and those of us who make informed decisions to choose it for our sons, that would be great.

good points. I'm sure he's FAR more experienced than any medical personal out there. and I'm sure he takes the entire child into account...

My only concern is why would a jewish person - who believes circumcision a religious mandate for HIS people, be offering it to gentiles?

that's the only part I'm not getting...

[SleeplessMommy]

Originally Posted by Smokering

I'm curious as to whether he uses a spray anaesthetic - his site doesn't mention it specifically, which seems an odd omission if that's what he uses. In any case, spray anaesthetic is considered to be a very poor method of pain relief for babies, although I realise none of the available methods are entirely successful.

When drugs (including anesthetics) are submitted to the FDA for approval, the manufacturer is required to list indications for use. Many, many topic anesthetics - including a topical dental anesthetic I am familiar with - have a written statement saying "not intended for circumcision". Their use as "pain relief" may be an off-label use. While medical doctors are allowed to make decisions about off-label uses (for example a cancer drug used for fertility treatments) is a religious circumciser really trained enough to make that medical decision and understand the risks?

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by HennyPenny

My only concern is why would a jewish person - who believes circumcision a religious mandate for HIS people, be offering it to gentiles?

that's the only part I'm not getting...

To make a living? I don't agree with the reason, but that's probably it.

Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy

When drugs (including anesthetics) are submitted to the FDA for approval, the manufacturer is required to list indications for use. Many, many topic anesthetics - including a topical dental anesthetic I am familiar with - have a written statement saying "not intended for circumcision". Their use as "pain relief" may be an off-label use. While medical doctors are allowed to make decisions about off-label uses (for example a cancer drug used for fertility treatments) is a religious circumciser really trained enough to make that medical decision and understand the risks?

These men undergo special training in this surgery and they have an advisory board which they report to. Many older mohels were apprentices before they were mohels and many are doctors/surgeons in their secular lives.

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by smeisnotapirate

To make a living? I don't agree with the reason, but that's probably it.

yeah... that's kinda what I was thinking...

I have a good devout Christian friend who has a mohel come to her house and circumcise her son. I never did quite understand that one. mostly why the mohel would do it. but I also didn't feel it my place to get up in her business and start asking questions like that!