Wodering Why - Page 3

[angelamariebee]

Originally Posted by harmonyhobbit

I consider myself to be an AP parent.
I think a lot of the language we use is rather judgemental and incendiary. Saying that cosleeping, BWing, BFing, etc is "better for the baby" is downright insulting to those who choose not to. I personally believe it is better for mom and baby, but I can't expect someone who doesn't do what i do to suddenly say, "You're right. Your way is much better. I suck."

I think this is true. Part of my lactivist indoctrination, heh, when I was pregnant and first learning about the subject was the importance of the language you use. You aren't supposed to talk about the BENEFITS of breastfeeding, but the RISKS of formula. The reasoning is that breastfeeding is the way nature intended us to feed our children, so it is not reducing your risk of illness, but rather formula increases that risk.

I'm torn on the issue because I DO agree with that. I'm not out to make any mother's feel guilty but I think it's pretty unavoidable. Don't we all feel guilty about one thing or another? I know I do. I'm still not ballsy enough to preach to new mothers about the "risks of formula" like some mothers I know, because I know how it makes people feel. Alienating people is NOT the way to go about getting people to agree with you, lol.

[Daphneduck]

..

[churndash]

I think what also hurts "the cause" is hyperbole - like saying "formula is poison".

Well obviously it isn't - it's not arsenic. Babies don't drink formula and instantly drop dead. People don't take you seriously when you exaggerate like that.

[angelamariebee]

Originally Posted by Daphneduck

No one ever felt the need to explain to me either, and I have plenty of formula feeding friends. I have never experienced the "huge pressure not to breastfeed," either. I did experience a huge pressure to breastfeed, though. I experienced that from the moment that I announced my pregnancy. I experienced that from pro-breastfeeding friends, my pro-breastfeeding family, my doctor, and then finally in the hospital where she was born. Maybe it is a regional thing, that makes sense.

It must be a regional thing. The only place I felt pressure to nurse was on the internet, lol. I think ONE person asked me if I was going to nurse and it was my childless SIL. Everyone that was most involved in my pregnancy assumed I would use formula and therefore I did too. I never really gave it much though until SIL asked and I thought, "Oh yeah". Once I really thought about it, I realized most people in my family DO nurse (one aunt nurses her kids till age 3-4 even) but it wasn't something we really talked about.

But no, I don't remember anyone in the hospital or my OB or anyone pressuring me to nurse. I think if I hadn't had the internet and DD hadn't been such an easy-going baby, I may not have nursed at all (since I wasn't living near my family and didn't have that support).

[angelamariebee]

Originally Posted by churndash

I think what also hurts "the cause" is hyperbole - like saying "formula is poison".

Well obviously it isn't - it's not arsenic. Babies don't drink formula and instantly drop dead. People don't take you seriously when you exaggerate like that.

Agreed. Even in my extremist days I wouldn't have used language like THAT. That's awful.

[felix23]

Originally Posted by Jposey

after a certain point, when you realize that the majority of people in your life are different it feels lonely anyway! trust me hence my other post!

It might just be my personality, but the majority of the people in my life do not parent or live anything like me, and I don't feel lonely at all. The playgroup I go to, I am the only one who breastfeeds, selective vax, cloth diapers, limits junk food/sugar, or limits tv. But I still have fun and find a lot of things to talk about. They have never acted judgemental.

The only people who have acted judgemental towards me were AP moms, that's why I hang out with the mainstream crowd.

[miss_yvonne]

Originally Posted by delfin

mmm, i totally feel is true that these practices are better for a human baby than the counterparts, that's why i do what i do. There are exceptions, of course, but i would even say bwing, bfing and co slepping are the norm, since they've been around forever.

Some babies, like mine, hate to be worn and sleep much, much better when they're by themselves. It gets to me when people categorically insist that bwing and co-sleeping are better for a baby, when they clearly make my own miserable.

This reminds me there was a thread somewhere on here recently about how babies who are worn a lot are so much softer and cuddly and relaxed, which may or may not be true--I wouldn't know, since my girl screamed bloody murder and arched her back and squirmed like crazy in every sling I tried to put her in from day one. A few people posted something to the effect of how sorry they felt for those stiff, rigid babies whose mothers never wore them, and it's just like, oh jeez, c'mon now. This is where the judging gets out of hand for me--and I might add I've never, ever encountered this in real life, only on the internet--but the super-AP crowd seems to be feeling an awful lot of pity for more "mainstream" babies, who are no doubt just as loved and cherished by their parents.

[claddaghmom]

IMO b/c by being AP it is a judgment.

By NOT vaccinating, that is judging vaccines to be bad.

By NOT using formula, that judging formula to be bad.

By NOT spanking, that is judging spanking to be bad.

And so on.

ETA: It might not have much to do w/ AP vs MS. It has more to do w/ insecurity and defensiveness over an issue. I've found people who are ignorant of knowledge on certain issues to be more likely to lash out, in part b/c they don't know anything, on top of other emotional issues.

I don't CD. But I don't feel a need to defend myself or to lash out at cding mamas. I'm secure in my decision, end of discussion. Although every now and then I look at the adorable covers available lol.

As for others, however, they might have chosen to do something out of default, bad advice or a lack of options. To suddenly see/learn a new way to do it is a rub in the face, IMO.

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by miss_yvonne

Some babies, like mine, hate to be worn and sleep much, much better when they're by themselves. It gets to me when people categorically insist that bwing and co-sleeping are better for a baby, when they clearly make my own miserable.

This reminds me there was a thread somewhere on here recently about how babies who are worn a lot are so much softer and cuddly and relaxed, which may or may not be true--I wouldn't know, since my girl screamed bloody murder and arched her back and squirmed like crazy in every sling I tried to put her in from day one. A few people posted something to the effect of how sorry they felt for those stiff, rigid babies whose mothers never wore them, and it's just like, oh jeez, c'mon now. This is where the judging gets out of hand for me--and I might add I've never, ever encountered this in real life, only on the internet--but the super-AP crowd seems to be feeling an awful lot of pity for more "mainstream" babies, who are no doubt just as loved and cherished by their parents.

lol I posted on a thread w/ a similar vibe awhile back. ITA about the stereotypes.

You gave me this image of a mom trying to bend her baby's arm lol

[angelamariebee]

Originally Posted by miss_yvonne

Some babies, like mine, hate to be worn and sleep much, much better when they're by themselves. It gets to me when people categorically insist that bwing and co-sleeping are better for a baby, when they clearly make my own miserable.

This reminds me there was a thread somewhere on here recently about how babies who are worn a lot are so much softer and cuddly and relaxed, which may or may not be true--I wouldn't know, since my girl screamed bloody murder and arched her back and squirmed like crazy in every sling I tried to put her in from day one. A few people posted something to the effect of how sorry they felt for those stiff, rigid babies whose mothers never wore them, and it's just like, oh jeez, c'mon now. This is where the judging gets out of hand for me--and I might add I've never, ever encountered this in real life, only on the internet--but the super-AP crowd seems to be feeling an awful lot of pity for more "mainstream" babies, who are no doubt just as loved and cherished by their parents.

To me, AP is more about letting the child decide what works for them. A lot of babies do well sleeping next to mom, better in fact, so co-sleeping would be doing what's best for THAT child. If your baby sleeps better on their own, you are doing what's best for yours. It wouldn't be very AP to FORCE your child to sleep in your bed just because you were trying to be AP, kwim? (Not that you would do that, I'm speaking hypothetically, of course.)

[delfin]

that's why i said there are exceptions.

most mammals need to be close to their mothers when they sleep or hang out.

i dont get why it bugs you when people say something that for the majority is true. some kids don't like to be worn, or co sleep.

But speaking in general, without getting in particular situatuations, it is better

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by angelamariebee

I think this is true. Part of my lactivist indoctrination, heh, when I was pregnant and first learning about the subject was the importance of the language you use. You aren't supposed to talk about the BENEFITS of breastfeeding, but the RISKS of formula. The reasoning is that breastfeeding is the way nature intended us to feed our children, so it is not reducing your risk of illness, but rather formula increases that risk.

honestly i think that is almost more offensive. so now it is not just better but what the other mother is doing is dangerous. that sort of speech is effective maybe but makes us look like jerks. no question about it.

unless someone asks me for a better way I don't offer them one. if they ask me what I do, what worked for me I tell them, if they ask me why I tell them why i love it. i never offer more information than they ask me for. occasionally I will ask them if they would like to read a book that i found helpful. but try not to push them. when people are ready they will see the light.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by claddaghmom

IMO b/c by being AP it is a judgment.

By NOT vaccinating, that is judging vaccines to be bad.

By NOT using formula, that judging formula to be bad.

By NOT spanking, that is judging spanking to be bad.

And so on.

I don't agree. a don't vaccinate because the risks are not worth the benefits for this child at this time. I can completely respect someone who has done the research and decided that for this child at this time vaccines are the better choice.

when we home schooled that was the best choice, when my kids were in public school that was the best choice for them at the time.

I breastfeed because that is how I think God intended it. it is what is best for my babies and I think formula (like processed food) is inferior but if it is what you have to do for whatever reason that is your business. i think it is fine to say formula is inferior without saying people who formula feed are bad.

we co-slept according to how everyone slept best. some babies at some times co-slept or slept alone more than others.

This reminds me there was a thread somewhere on here recently about how babies who are worn a lot are so much softer and cuddly and relaxed, which may or may not be true--I wouldn't know, since my girl screamed bloody murder and arched her back and squirmed like crazy in every sling I tried to put her in from day one. A few people posted something to the effect of how sorry they felt for those stiff, rigid babies whose mothers never wore them, and it's just like, oh jeez, c'mon now. This is where the judging gets out of hand for me--and I might add I've never, ever encountered this in real life, only on the internet--but the super-AP crowd seems to be feeling an awful lot of pity for more "mainstream" babies, who are no doubt just as loved and cherished by their parents.

or perhaps the babies who are softer and cuddlier are the ones who like to be worn . . . . because well, they are softer and cuddlier.

[angelamariebee]

Originally Posted by lilyka

honestly i think that is almost more offensive. so now it is not just better but what the other mother is doing is dangerous. that sort of speech is effective maybe but makes us look like jerks. no question about it.

Originally Posted by lilyka

it is what is best for my babies and I think formula (like processed food) is inferior but if it is what you have to do for whatever reason that is your business. i think it is fine to say formula is inferior without saying people who formula feed are bad.

I don't see how saying there are risks to formula is saying that someone who uses formula is "bad".

I think this would all be a lot easier if everyone went around assuming no one thought you were a bad parent unless they clearly expressed it. I think people definitely assume more often than it is said out loud.

[trancechylde]

Originally Posted by angie7

Considering that I am more of in between AP and "mainstream" person with my views and know people on both sides plus belong to different forums, your statement does not ring true to me. I find that AP people are by far more judgemental the mainstreamers.

:

I have found this to be true as well

[Quinalla]

Part of it is yes, others feel threatened by your choice if it is different from yours. They feel doubt that they may not have made the "right" choice and don't want to feel that, so that lash out at what is causing that feeling.

Even simpler though, is what people don't understand, they fear. And when you are afraid, you react instinctively (lashing out (fight), ignoring (running away), etc.) instead of thinking about it and making an informed response. When people stop and think about baby carriers for instance, they make a hell of a lot of sense. Free hands and hold my baby? Woohoo! But when you first see one and have no clue what it is, initial reactions can be negative because you don't understand it. Or maybe you already have a negative bias against something because of stories from family/friends and whatnot, so that is your initial reaction because you never took the time to think it through yourself. I am just as guilty of this as anyone, though I do try to be aware of it and lessen how much it happens.

[choli]

Originally Posted by claddaghmom

IMO b/c by being AP it is a judgment.

By NOT vaccinating, that is judging vaccines to be bad.

By NOT using formula, that judging formula to be bad.

By NOT spanking, that is judging spanking to be bad.

And so on.

ETA: It might not have much to do w/ AP vs MS. It has more to do w/ insecurity and defensiveness over an issue. I've found people who are ignorant of knowledge on certain issues to be more likely to lash out, in part b/c they don't know anything, on top of other emotional issues.

I don't CD. But I don't feel a need to defend myself or to lash out at cding mamas. I'm secure in my decision, end of discussion. Although every now and then I look at the adorable covers available lol.

As for others, however, they might have chosen to do something out of default, bad advice or a lack of options. To suddenly see/learn a new way to do it is a rub in the face, IMO.

I'm not so sure. I nursed, but I don't think formula is "bad". I don't eat meat, but I don't think meat is "bad". My sister doesn't drink alcohol, but she doesn't think alcohol is "bad". These are just choices we make, not judgements of other people's choices.