Circumcised, Sues and WINS! - Page 3

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by Smokering

In other words, they should just get over it? Unfortunately circumcision isn't something you can physically "get over", so it's no wonder many men can't emotionally "get over" it. Accepting a permanent disability given to one by God or nature is a different thing to accepting a permanent disability (and it is a disability - the dis-ability to have normal sex, ever, your whole life) given to you for no good reason. A man might be expected to come to terms with being born without a hand; but how can you ask him to come to terms with his parents choosing to cut it off as an infant? Wouldn't you expect him to be angry; to be reminded of it and freshly angry every time he wanted to do something that required two hands; to seek compensation; to try to stop other parents cutting the hands off their children? It may be emotionally healthier for him to forgive his parents, but that doesn't mitigate those other factors, and it is irrelevant to the process of litigation. A girl might forgive her rapist, but she may still - some would say should still - prosecute him. Given that circumcision is arguably more physically permanent and damaging than rape, how is it "crazy" for a man to sue?

: well said Smokering.

[DesireeH]

While I do think the PARENTS should be the ones responsible for making sure this does not happen to their sons, I do think doctors and nurses should get in trouble for soliciting the procedure.

I had my son at a hospital. I asked to leave early and he had to be examined before we could leave AMA and while they had him for like 20 minutes, they came and asked me THREE TIMES if I wanted him circ'd. I told them no before he was even born. It was in my birth plan. I told them no again when they asked. The last time I said "if you touch my kids penis, I will sue you." They didnt ask again.

I have a "dont push me around" personality. Someone else who may not handle confrontation well or be groggy from c section surgery or meds or whatever else.....well then the doctor should be held accountable.

[SleeplessMommy]

Originally Posted by Ceinwen

Honestly though, in my experience, I've never seen physician ask about circumcision. Could that be my geographic location? The midwife or OB delivers the baby (okay, technically mum delivers the baby!) and then the nurses provide care.

In the USA, it is very common for docs to offer circumcision or try to talk parents into circumcision. We were asked 5 or 6 times in a "pro circ" hospital. An improvement from the old days, where parental consent was not obtained, and it was commonly done before the Mom woke up after a "knock-out" delivery.

[Ceinwen]

Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy

In the USA, it is very common for docs to offer circumcision or try to talk parents into circumcision. We were asked 5 or 6 times in a "pro circ" hospital. An improvement from the old days, where parental consent was not obtained, and it was commonly done before the Mom woke up after a "knock-out" delivery.

That is so absolutely repulsive. Those poor babies.

My exdp is intact and he was absolutely adamant that any boys we had would be as well. Of course, coming from a mother and father who were big intactivists I always saw RIC as the horror it was... but well, knowing that there are health professionals who actually advocate for this... it's stomach turning.

Thanks for the information everyone, I'm super glad this forum is here to educate people!

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Quirky

This, totally. Not only does the medical profession (speaking in general terms) solicit circumcision, there is no true informed consent.

I never went through this, as circ wasn't being pushed here even when I had my first baby. (He's 16, which really shows the cultural differences between here and the US, imo.) However, I've heard some really awful things...going back to my mom, in 1963, having a consent for circ shoved under her nose, being told to sign it, and getting attitude from the nurse when she asked questions. My mom's stubborn, and never been one for doing what she's told, or doing things just because everyone else does. She didn't sign.

However, if she had...I'd have trouble blaming her. She was in the first few hours of recovery after a long labour, emergency c-section (in 1963 - things were ugly if they went to section, and she had a classical). She'd woken up in a dark room, still under the effects of a spinal she didn't remember having. There is no way in hell that it would have been informed consent if she'd signed that paper...she probably wasn't even legally able to sign anything at all.

And, it wasn't circ, but I had the same thing. I was pushed into bloodwork for really stupid reasons after I lost Aaron. IMO, the OB in question took advantage of my drugged, exhausted, grieving - and irrational - frame of mind in an attempt to get "the goods" (ie. some way to blame me) on the crazy homebirther. I said yes, and I signed the forms...but I'm honestly not even sure they should be considered legal, under the circumstances. I was only a couple hours out from a state in which I'd blank out mid-sentence...

[tammyswanson]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

The only person many people have to ask on this issue is the Dr. and when a Dr. dosnt provide them with the information that circ is not medically needed he is failing to provide full disclosure. Then him performing the circ is violating his oath to first do no harm.

This kind of lawsuit lets Dr's know that someday down the road they may have to pay a heavy price for doing the circ so it may be what it takes to put a stop to this barbaric procedure. It is a step in the right direction for sure.

Many parents still have no idea that circ is not medically necessary and have no way to research it on their own. Believe it or not many still dont have the internet and the only place for information is family and the health care worker they choose.

It is the Dr's responsibility to explain in detail what is lost the pain involved not only at the time of the circ but during healing and the possibility of problems when the child is and adult. It is also his/her responsibility to refuse to perform cosmetic surgery on an infant. When he/she violates either of two things then he is ultimately to blame for the damage done.

: Yes! Thank you for putting it so eloquently! :

[tammyswanson]

Originally Posted by DesireeH

While I do think the PARENTS should be the ones responsible for making sure this does not happen to their sons, I do think doctors and nurses should get in trouble for soliciting the procedure.

I had my son at a hospital. I asked to leave early and he had to be examined before we could leave AMA and while they had him for like 20 minutes, they came and asked me THREE TIMES if I wanted him circ'd. I told them no before he was even born. It was in my birth plan. I told them no again when they asked. The last time I said "if you touch my kids penis, I will sue you." They didnt ask again.

I have a "dont push me around" personality. Someone else who may not handle confrontation well or be groggy from c section surgery or meds or whatever else.....well then the doctor should be held accountable.

You. Are. Awesome!!!!! Your DS is very lucky to have you as a mom!

[trinity6232000]

Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy

An improvement from the old days, where parental consent was not obtained, and it was commonly done before the Mom woke up after a "knock-out" delivery.

I once asked my mother why she decided to have my brothers circumcised. She said nobody asked her. When she woke up from the birth it was already done. My brothers were born in 1960/1964 in Western PA.

I was the only birth my Mom was awake for, I was born in 1975.

[nolonger]

Originally Posted by trinity6232000

I once asked my mother why she decided to have my brothers circumcised. She said nobody asked her. When she woke up from the birth it was already done. My brothers were born in 1960/1964 in Western PA.

I was the only birth my Mom was awake for, I was born in 1975.

My sister was born in '63 outside of Philadelphia. When my parents received the bill from the hospital, there was a charge on it for circumcision. It was easy enough for them to get it off the bill because, obviously, Sis was a girl but I think that does say something about how common circumcision was back then and how little "choice" that generation actually had.

Most of us here make choices that are outside of the mainstream: selective/delayed vax, homebirthing, extended breastfeeding, etc. but those choices involve taking the time to educate ourselves, finding strength in people who support our decisions (not impossible without the internet, but so much more difficult), and staying strong in the face of self-doubt and criticism.

I have trouble blaming my mother for not bucking the system even though, had she done so about a different issue than genital mutilation, my sister would be alive today.

JMNSHO

[ramama]

Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds

The doctor was responsible for his own actions. If I get permission from a parent to beat their kid senseless (or whatever harmful act you want to imagine,) does that mean I'm not responsible for making that choice?

Also, doctors enjoy an authoritative position in this culture, and they cultivate that and assume it's their right. That's a kind of power (even if it's just psychological) and with power comes responsibility. (I just wish Spiderman didn't come to mind now when I say that. )

Totally agree!

Originally Posted by sweetdaughter

Beating a child senseless is illegal circumcision, unfortunately, is not. Of course you would be held responsible for beating a child, but so would the parents. I just don't see how one party can be held responsible, and not the other.

Any member of a group can be held responsible, legally. People sue where there is money and where the most change is likely to happen.

Legally, if you were in a group of 20 friends and one (not you) throws a rock at my car, any member of that group can be held legally responsible for the damage. In this case, sure the parents could be held responsible, but the doctor had a greater burden of responsibility by being a member of a trusted community.

[KaylaBeanie]

I really hope more doctors get sued and MGM comes to a screeching halt. It just baffles me that insurance companies won't insure a doctor who does VBACs but has no problems with them doing circs. Hopefully, if this picks up, they'll come to their senses.