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Are those leashes/harnesses for kids demeaning? - Page 6

post #101 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by SparklingGemini View Post
How is tethering your child to your arm instilling independence? Truly?

I mean no harm, I just don't understand this mentality.

I think that if you(general)take a stand on a parenting choice, such as breastfeeding, cosleeping, no leashing, homeschooling, etc. than you make it work regardless of the "different personalities" a child has and the challenges facing you.
Okay, this is where we differ.

For me, attachment parenting is about fostering a connection, and meeting my son's needs. Period. We did look to breastfeeding and co-sleeping for that, but if my son had, for example, needed to sleep in his own space we'd've run with it.

For us, the leash did that much better at the particular stage for which it was useful: It met his need to explore, to touch (with both hands, and to fall with both hands), and to have some freedom of movement, while meeting my need for safety.

The reason I bring it up on these threads, I guess, is because I felt it really enabled me to get out of the role of "hall monitor/disciplinarian" and really BE with him in situations where normally I would have been much more on guard. I really feel that it increased our attachment. I would never, ever have guessed that some contraption would have. Sure, if we were in a park with no cars it would have been different.

He certainly wasn't on it all the time, but when it worked, it really, really worked. I remember being in the butterfly pavillion with him crouched down touching the leaves and a butterfly landing on his shoe... it was such a moment of wonder, and holding hands (it was fairly crowded behind us) we would have missed it because he was partway under a little branch... anyway. At the park it wouldn't have been necessary. But we enjoyed those times, and the auto show where he got to climb! on! cars! and touch! tires! and... gosh. So many good memories of him toddling around.

I'm a worrier, so that was a factor too.
post #102 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by SparklingGemini View Post


I used to nanny. For five kids.

We went places, did things, were in crowds and I never ever used a leash.

Was it always easy? No.

Did I have to work hard with the kids? Yes.

Were they confined in a stroller, harness, sling etc.? Never.

Was one or two of them a runner? Absolutely.

I still never used a leash. :
How old were the kids?

And does : mean you think safety harnesses for toddlers (let's face it, unless you're steering them it isn't a leash) are always evil?

And you never yelled at the kids?

I also love the assumption that people use the harnesses instead of working with their kids.
post #103 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
So basically you are almost a bad mom if you don't use one? That is a new spin!

Also, for what it's worth I try very hard not to say "no, no!" to my dd unless it is a really big deal ie going in the street etc.

I do gently remind her that she needs to hold hands with me and if she is having a hard time with the compliance a certain situation requires I adjust myself and my own expectations. If going to the zoo without a leash presented too many issues I would not be going to the zoo until it was more developmentally appropriate for her. I am not of the mindset that we need to be going and doing everything regardless of her current abilities.

I guess in that way it is to each their own.

I still will look sideways at a child being walked around on a leash.
No, definitely not. I just think that people are quick to judge the appearance of leashes when they are very tolerant of corrections.
post #104 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
I disagree.
But, I offer the idea that a dead child would also not become independent at a natural pace.

May you have the freedom to continue parenting in the ways that you believe. And may I have the same.
Obviously you have the freedom to walk your child on a leash, who is going to stop you? But people don't have to like it or accept it as appropriate. And people can disagree with you. And wasn't this thread posed as a question about if you think leashes are demeaning to children? So can't some people say "No"?
I still am so surprised that so many MDC mamas are into these things!
post #105 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
How old were the kids?

And does : mean you think safety harnesses for toddlers (let's face it, unless you're steering them it isn't a leash) are always evil?

And you never yelled at the kids?

I also love the assumption that people use the harnesses instead of working with their kids.

So calling it a harness makes it less of a leash? I had a "harness" for my dog....it connected to a leash! Does your "harness" have a leash-like appendage that you hold onto?
post #106 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
Obviously you have the freedom to walk your child on a leash, who is going to stop you? But people don't have to like it or accept it as appropriate. And people can disagree with you. And wasn't this thread posed as a question about if you think leashes are demeaning to children? So can't some people say "No"?
I still am so surprised that so many MDC mamas are into these things!
I'm still surprised that so many MDC mamas haven't learned that different things work for different children and their families.
I'm still surprised that so many MDC mamas are so invested in considering themselves superior and looking down on others for making different choices for those different children and different circumstances.
I wasn't asking permission for the freedom. More along the lines of asking for respect and consideration of the fact that we are all different. And, just as I wouldn't sit in judgment of another parent who's doing the best they can in their situation, I would hope that another parent wouldn't sit in judgment of me. Obviously, that's too much to ask for. Still, I have hope that the people on a forum where so many unconventional parenting methods are supported would open their minds to the concept that what works for them may not work for someone else. That doesn't make any of us wrong, or mean that we're somehow harming our children. It means, quite simply, that we're in different circumstances. That happens in a world where everyone's unique.
post #107 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
I'm still surprised that so many MDC mamas haven't learned that different things work for different children and their families.
I'm still surprised that so many MDC mamas are so invested in considering themselves superior and looking down on others for making different choices for those different children and different circumstances.
I wasn't asking permission for the freedom. More along the lines of asking for respect and consideration of the fact that we are all different. And, just as I wouldn't sit in judgment of another parent who's doing the best they can in their situation, I would hope that another parent wouldn't sit in judgment of me. Obviously, that's too much to ask for. Still, I have hope that the people on a forum where so many unconventional parenting methods are supported would open their minds to the concept that what works for them may not work for someone else. That doesn't make any of us wrong, or mean that we're somehow harming our children. It means, quite simply, that we're in different circumstances. That happens in a world where everyone's unique.
I heartily agree that different things work for different moms. But does that open the door for say washing your LO's mouth out with soap? Does that apply to spanking(some say it really works for them. How about time outs? How about taking favorite toys away? How about weaning your LO at 8 months because they "really like the independence of holding the bottle on their own" (yes, my SIL said that to me)?

I just think yes, there are different ways to do things, this, to me, is not an acceptable one.
post #108 of 251
I have seen alot of comments regarding harnesses and it hindering independence.

If you had a child that had sensory issues or any other issues that made it unsafe to go to busy places or near traffic....would you choose to stay home?

Or would you use a monkey backpack, insuring your childs safety? Allowing your child to experience new and exciting things?
post #109 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
I heartily agree that different things work for different moms. But does that open the door for say washing your LO's mouth out with soap? Does that apply to spanking(some say it really works for them. How about time outs? How about taking favorite toys away? How about weaning your LO at 8 months because they "really like the independence of holding the bottle on their own" (yes, my SIL said that to me)?

I just think yes, there are different ways to do things, this, to me, is not an acceptable one.
Then, certainly, don't use one for your child. I wouldn't think of forcing you to, or calling you a bad mom because you don't.
We obviously approach things very differently. I don't consider parents who spank or wash kids mouths out with soap or take their kids toys away or wean early to be bad parents for those choices. Just parents who are making some choices that may be different than the choices I make for my own children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momtoS View Post
I have seen alot of comments regarding harnesses and it hindering independence.

If you had a child that had sensory issues or any other issues that made it unsafe to go to busy places or near traffic....would you choose to stay home?

Or would you use a monkey backpack, insuring your childs safety? Allowing your child to experience new and exciting things?
I doubt that those people who don't have kids with major sensory issues can accurately answer that question, not having a clue as to what it means to be in that situation. I'm in agreement with you, however.
post #110 of 251
lotusdebi---I agree. Unless you live day to day with sensory issues you really can't give advice to a mom who does. I try to live an AP lifestyle but....it was a choice of either confining ourselves indoors or wearing a cute monkey that my daughter loved and go out and about. It was for her safety.

There were days she refused to wear it, but there are days she refuses to wear clothes! On those days we rearranged our plans.

I have never FORCED her to wear it. It was never used as a punishment. It was strictly safety.

She loved being a big girl walking me and the monkey.
post #111 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by momtoS View Post
I try to live an AP lifestyle but....it was a choice of either confining ourselves indoors or wearing a cute monkey that my daughter loved and go out and about. It was for her safety.
I know I differ from many with my definition of AP. For me, it's not a matter of doing things from a checklist. It's about meeting your child's needs. One example: for some children, cosleeping is counter-indicated; it's not good or healthy for them. Forcing them to cosleep in such a situation is, IMO, counter to attachment parenting. You're not meeting their emotional or physical needs by cosleeping, you're just checking something off a list from a book. Kids are all different, and they need different things. To not recognize that is to deny a child what's in their best interest.
In other words, I don't think that using a harness is not AP. I think it's perfectly AP if it's what's indicated for that particular child. Just like using a sling is AP for some children, and not for others. It's about the child, not a list.
But, I know that many people are very invested in that list, and would disagree with me on this.
post #112 of 251
Jumping in here, but I would have to agree. I've co-slept with most of my children to some extent or other, but have one that by 3 wks was in his own bed and that's where he stayed. He didn't sleep well, and in turn I didn't, when he was in bed with us. I have owned one of those harnesses in the past, and found it quite useful with one of my children. It was either have him wear it and know where he was at all times when we were at the mall, have him kicking and screaming while in the stroller, or have him disappear the second my back was turned. I actually had a woman say to me once, "Aren't those things illegal?" Um, obviously not or I wouldn't be using it.
post #113 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post

And I would love to know how parents exsisted before the introduction of the leash? Or is that a piece of history that time has forgotten?
Leading Strings


Leading stings were commonly employed on children's dresses from the 16th to 18th Century. They were precisely what they sounded like. The strips of fabric matching or coordinated with the dress fabric that were sewn on to the dress at the shoulders. The other end fell freely down the back of the dress. Some dresses did not have leading strings sewn on directly, but they would be pinned on if the mother so desired. The "strings" were considered practical for assisting younger children and controlling rambunctious children for whom they were used rather as a lease. Practices and conventions varied for boys and girls. Eventually leading strings in popular parkance became to be used more and more as a restraining device rather than walking aids. The term "harness" gradually became more and more popular . From 1900 to 1950, parents used the term "leather baby harness" for a 1 to 5 years old and "toddler harness for children from 2 to 5 years old.

Just a little history...

Deanna
post #114 of 251
We choose to use a harness in 3 situations (a few repeated)..
1) the air port I used to fly home each summer to visit my parents and would take my DD along my DH stayed home cause he had to work.. I used the harness because I had to also balance luggage (for a spell) carry on bags and a car seat. I personaly felt the potiental danger of a crowded airport made the extra security worth it and I needed both my hands...

2) a super crowded confrence where DD was very well behaved and held tight to my hand but in the crowd she got pulled from me and was very scared the harness gave her security

3) a zoo trip mostly cause she wanted to wear it and would get mad if I dropped the tail to let her freely walk with me

Other parents have made the decession to use one for more occasions other choose not at all I fail to see how ones choice of a harness can be prepared with say washing ones mouth out with soap or CIO ect.

Deanna
post #115 of 251
For me I think there is a time and a place for them. My DD was a runner and last summer I had to have her in a stroller or the Ergo so she wouldn't bolt at the farmer's market and run into the street. I wish I had one of those packs with her, it would have helped us let her be independent and not have to be in the stroller. She just would constantly run away, she just thought it was a game. Now she always wants to "hold my hand" as she says.

If this baby is the same way, I am getting one no problems. I am concerned about the safety of my children and if that keeps them safe-so be it.
post #116 of 251
Leashes are not demeaning. I don't think it's demeaning for my dog or for my child. It is to keep them both safe. A stroller is the same thing IMO. You use it to keep your child strapped into so they cannot run off. The appropriate term is harness and no one will bark at your child.

You should stop listening to your sister and tell her to keep her opinions to herself.
post #117 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
So calling it a harness makes it less of a leash? I had a "harness" for my dog....it connected to a leash! Does your "harness" have a leash-like appendage that you hold onto?
No, because the only harness I own is our 5-point carseat.

Lina isn't walking so I have no idea if I'll need to tether her to me. However, if I feel it's better for us as a family, I'm not about to be convinced not to use one because of an argument that basically amounts to "I didn't do it that way, therefore it's bad."

Oh, and I only care about the term "leash" because it has connotations that people like the OP's sister can't get past.
post #118 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
I once saw a kid run out in front of a car, mom had been holding his hand but he wrestled away and she had a baby in the other hand, and he did get hit.
: That must've been terrifying for you. I can't imagine what the mom went through.
post #119 of 251
And you know what'll make the experience demeaning for the child? People sneering.

Just like harnessed carseats aren't demeaning to 6 year olds until someone teases them for sitting in one.

Fortunately, 2 year olds are generally less aware of that sort of thing.
post #120 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuildJenn View Post
Okay, this is where we differ.

For me, attachment parenting is about fostering a connection, and meeting my son's needs. Period. We did look to breastfeeding and co-sleeping for that, but if my son had, for example, needed to sleep in his own space we'd've run with it.

For us, the leash did that much better at the particular stage for which it was useful: It met his need to explore, to touch (with both hands, and to fall with both hands), and to have some freedom of movement, while meeting my need for safety.

The reason I bring it up on these threads, I guess, is because I felt it really enabled me to get out of the role of "hall monitor/disciplinarian" and really BE with him in situations where normally I would have been much more on guard. I really feel that it increased our attachment. I would never, ever have guessed that some contraption would have. Sure, if we were in a park with no cars it would have been different.
We used our harness/reins in very similar ways. DS #1 would go limp and slump to the ground if I tried to make him hold hands. He'd lean over off my hip until I was carrying like a football if I tried to carry him. He loved to find sticks and pinecones and rocks and carry them around.

We live in a place of great natural beauty, but a lot of dangers - cliffs, rockslides, fast-moving water with deep splashpools and waterfalls. In order for him to be able to really experience all those things, he needed to be down and walking.

The fact that the reins let him wander a BIT (the reins were in a loop that was only about 1.5 or 2 feet long, and let him stoop to pick things up and move his whole body in different directions to look around was *key* to him. The fact that he wasn't pitching a huge tantrum because he had to hold my hand was key to *me*. The fact that I knew he couldn't get far enough away to fall into the creek and be pushed under a rock by a waterfall was key to *everyone*

We used the safety net aspect of the time with the harness to work on the needed skills to go without it. I never yanked on it, I usually put it on him, looped it on my wrist and then tried to hold hands as much as possible, and talk about staying close to me, and not leaving the paths.... It was not a substitute for that kind of work and learning, but let us out to do more and see more while he developed those skills.
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