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Are those leashes/harnesses for kids demeaning? - Page 9

post #161 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
I heartily agree that different things work for different moms. But does that open the door for say washing your LO's mouth out with soap? Does that apply to spanking(some say it really works for them. How about time outs? How about taking favorite toys away? How about weaning your LO at 8 months because they "really like the independence of holding the bottle on their own" (yes, my SIL said that to me)?

I just think yes, there are different ways to do things, this, to me, is not an acceptable one.
I hear you there. I dont agree that harnesses are unacceptable, but you are right we all have a place where we draw the line on what we view to be acceptable or unacceptable. For me, its unacceptable when its something that hurts or disrespects a child. For that reason, allowing a child to use a harness because that is the child's preferred method of safety, and the parents need for their child to be safe is met, is in no way disrespectful or demeaning. just my opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
Then, certainly, don't use one for your child. I wouldn't think of forcing you to, or calling you a bad mom because you don't.
We obviously approach things very differently. I don't consider parents who spank or wash kids mouths out with soap or take their kids toys away or wean early to be bad parents for those choices. Just parents who are making some choices that may be different than the choices I make for my own children.



I doubt that those people who don't have kids with major sensory issues can accurately answer that question, not having a clue as to what it means to be in that situation. I'm in agreement with you, however.
I would totally think someone who willing spanks and chooses to spank and prefers spanking (and washing a mouth out with soap) as parents who are abusing their children.

As for the sensory issue, my son has very severe sensory issues, so I can relate!

Quote:
Originally Posted by momtoS View Post
lotusdebi---I agree. Unless you live day to day with sensory issues you really can't give advice to a mom who does. I try to live an AP lifestyle but....it was a choice of either confining ourselves indoors or wearing a cute monkey that my daughter loved and go out and about. It was for her safety.

There were days she refused to wear it, but there are days she refuses to wear clothes! On those days we rearranged our plans.

I have never FORCED her to wear it. It was never used as a punishment. It was strictly safety.

She loved being a big girl walking me and the monkey.
AWE. I agree :

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
I know I differ from many with my definition of AP. For me, it's not a matter of doing things from a checklist. It's about meeting your child's needs. One example: for some children, cosleeping is counter-indicated; it's not good or healthy for them. Forcing them to cosleep in such a situation is, IMO, counter to attachment parenting. You're not meeting their emotional or physical needs by cosleeping, you're just checking something off a list from a book. Kids are all different, and they need different things. To not recognize that is to deny a child what's in their best interest.
In other words, I don't think that using a harness is not AP. I think it's perfectly AP if it's what's indicated for that particular child. Just like using a sling is AP for some children, and not for others. It's about the child, not a list.
But, I know that many people are very invested in that list, and would disagree with me on this.
I agree with what attachment parenting means to you is the same way I look at it.
post #162 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
I don't think strollers are that horrible after a child is older, but for babies a sling brings a child closer to mama and a stroller encourages separation.
I carried my son in slings and mei tais and SSCs for quite a long time. I still carry him quite often. I know they bring babies closer. They are also confining. Your child is not free and is strapped in- yes, close to you- but they are confined.
post #163 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandelionkid View Post
It all depends on how the leash is used. For a short-time, in particular circumstances I doubt anyone would have a problem with it. If it is being used on a daily basis, long-term - that's when it seems parenting is being replaced with convenience. Maybe the convenience would be worth it to me if I had a "runner" but my ideal would be to teach and direct and interact with my child to develop their self-control and listening/safety skills. Regular usage of a leash seems like it could hinder this development. My :
I can see how harness users could look at it the way I look at co sleeping. when my children are ready to sleep on their own, they will let me know. I don't have to "teach" them how to sleep alone for them to "learn" how to sleep alone

Quote:
Originally Posted by momtoS View Post
I would still like to hear some responses to my earlier posts?

Just wondering if having to stay home or in safe places is more or less confining than a monkey backpack to go new fun places?

Also wondering if any of the moms against harnesses have children with sensory issues?

1) yes, staying home would be more confining then a monkey back pack. Though something to be considered if your child doesn't like a monkey back pack, because then to them, the backpack may be viewed as more confining.

2) I used to be against harnesses and I have a child with severe sensory issues. What changed was not my experience, but my ability to understand and use compassion. I feel confident I can do what I need to do without a child harness. at the same time, I dont think they are evil, and I'm not completely closed off to using one, I would just prefer not to, but I sense that is because my child would hate it. Perhaps those against it have a hard tim imagining a child loving one? I know they can though
post #164 of 251
Replying to the question about sensory issues, I have a child that is not fond of being touched. He can instigate contact, but unless it's tickling (and he has to be in the right mood for that) he doesn't really want contact (especially if not a family member). For him the stroller and harness were (and stroller still occasionally is) a good compromise. He could see what was going on and could have some freedom without having to constantly touch someone, and I didn't have to worry about him taking off. Which he would have done, and still sometimes does even at almost 6.
post #165 of 251
Quote:
passive-aggressive?
Who said anything about PASSIVE?

Also, for those of you who have managed children as nannies, give me a break. Of COURSE other people can get my daughter to hold their hands. Not me. They just have to ask her. I can ask, cajole, beg, give incentives, explanations- but while my daughter learns to stay with me (it took her about six months to stop slamming her fingers in the drawer, a really painful consequence, so I'm counting on a year or two for the running out into the street unless she gets hit by a logging truck), what am I supposed to do?

Everyone here against leashes or restraints (and incidentally, from age one on, my daughter herself seemed to view the podaegi as a cruel restraint and the stroller as a toy, now she only occasionally wants to be worn but she begs to be pushed in the stroller daily) is saying "teach your child to stay with you". Well, how are we supposed to do that? Stay inside for a year? What about the meantime?

Nobody is saying, use these all the time, for months. They are just like anything else- a carrier, a stroller, a hand- that helps you keep your child safe in specific situations. They are a SAFETY measure, not a pedagogical tool.

I personally think diapers on children are demeaning, but you won't hear me telling people who have late potty learners that they have somehow done something wrong, that their children are suffering, that if they were sufficiently attached baby would intuit the social and hygenic norms for potty-learning earlier, and that they should just stay inside until child can leave the house without a diaper. To me, this is a similar issue. Some children just NEED a diaper, or a leash, or whatever, for us to live in a world where we can't leave children behind with mom or MIL when we go out to do shopping, or for activities like swimming or fairs or whatever.

Let's not pretend we live in this fairy-tale "People of the Forest" scenario. Modern life requires modern solutions.
post #166 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by paquerette View Post
: Would the hand-holding advocates do a little experiment? Spend an hour with your hand up in the air. I think you will find it rather uncomfortable.
YEppers. I'm 5'10" and most of that is leg, DH is 6' tall. I do think that was a big part of DS's issue with handholding.

Plus, like I said, he wanted to be carrying his own things. And I didn't want to be carrying his worms and sticky pinecones for him!
post #167 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
I can see how harness users could look at it the way I look at co sleeping. when my children are ready to sleep on their own, they will let me know. I don't have to "teach" them how to sleep alone for them to "learn" how to sleep alone




1) yes, staying home would be more confining then a monkey back pack. Though something to be considered if your child doesn't like a monkey back pack, because then to them, the backpack may be viewed as more confining.

2) I used to be against harnesses and I have a child with severe sensory issues. What changed was not my experience, but my ability to understand and use compassion. I feel confident I can do what I need to do without a child harness. at the same time, I dont think they are evil, and I'm not completely closed off to using one, I would just prefer not to, but I sense that is because my child would hate it. Perhaps those against it have a hard tim imagining a child loving one? I know they can though

There were days that using the monkey backpack was not an option...my daughter didn't feel like wearing it so we did something else on those days.

BUT normally it was a joy for my daughter to wear it!
post #168 of 251
I totally think its great you were tuned in - and willing to do what was necessary on a day to day basis for your daughter. So many parents are looking for one answer, and you seem to have embraced that there is more thn one answer. Your daughter had different needs on different days and you respected that. That is totally admirable Honestly its something I have a very hard time with - which is why it has been helpful for me to start focusing on my child instead of looking for some kind of xyz answer ya know (instead of thinking no backpack or always a back pack - more like what you do... meeting your child's need - whether that be a back pack one day but not the next)

anyway, imo you definitely have a one up in that area. Your daughter is very blessed to have you. It's obvious you feel the same about havng her
post #169 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
What I dont like in this thread is those who are "pro-harness" trying to make it sound like other options aren't as good or are in fact bad
Look back through, the first few remarks about other options being bad are posters sharing what they replied to people who got mouthy about their choice.

Later comments about "well other option isn't that great either" came after posts about the harness option being evil.

You've been saying "I didn't need it with my kids, and I don't think it would work with them, but I can see where other people would use it and am glad it works well for you." Other people have been saying it's demeaning and like washing a child's mouth out with soap.

So there's some defensiveness involved.

BTW, your posts.
post #170 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
Only if the child feels it is. But for a lot of children, they get what they want - a bit more freedom to wander - and the parents get what they want - safety. The only two people who get a vote are the parent and the child involved. If either of them don't like it, it's a no-go, but if they both like it, then yay!
Really, this answered it all.
post #171 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Look back through, the first few remarks about other options being bad are posters sharing what they replied to people who got mouthy about their choice.

Later comments about "well other option isn't that great either" came after posts about the harness option being evil.

You've been saying "I didn't need it with my kids, and I don't think it would work with them, but I can see where other people would use it and am glad it works well for you." Other people have been saying it's demeaning and like washing a child's mouth out with soap.

So there's some defensiveness involved.

BTW, your posts.
I saw that I totally understand where the defense is coming from, but just suggesting one to realize that saying these things might also be hurtful to those who aren't bashing harnesses. As Katie Byron wisely states: The first act of war is defense

I admit to being very close minded to harnesses previously. I am a different person today then a year ago. I realize that all the women here who are bashing harnesses may one day feel differently. It wont be because I told them their way is wrong though
post #172 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
It wont be because I told them their way is wrong though
True enough. But it's hard when people don't seem to want to listen to "it makes my child happier."

Hmm, there's an interesting off-topic thought... cross-posting.
post #173 of 251
I totally understand can I say I've felt like bashing my head into a wall over just that same things recently!!
post #174 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
I saw that I totally understand where the defense is coming from, but just suggesting one to realize that saying these things might also be hurtful to those who aren't bashing harnesses. As Katie Byron wisely states: The first act of war is defense

I admit to being very close minded to harnesses previously. I am a different person today then a year ago. I realize that all the women here who are bashing harnesses may one day feel differently. It wont be because I told them their way is wrong though
Honestly I don't think anyone said the other ways are wrong. I know I personally was pointing out that all the "good" methods of keeping kids safe (as defined by those who attacked harnesses) have their downsides as well. That's not the same as saying they're wrong.
post #175 of 251
I was referring to comments like this:

My kid is up and walking. Yours is strapped with a 5-point harness to an inanimate object with wheels. Which of these things is more demeaning?"

imlying a stroller is deamning... there were other negative references throughout as well. Which I understand was said in defense. I am on the "pro harness" side of this conversation.

Thank you for understanding where I was coming from sapphire chan.
post #176 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
I was referring to comments like this:

My kid is up and walking. Yours is strapped with a 5-point harness to an inanimate object with wheels. Which of these things is more demeaning?"
I thought you were. But notice that it was offered up as something to say to a person who "gave her crap" about using a harness. Not as something that applies to all stroller use.

Answering disrespect with disrespect isn't the best thing, but I know how it is to be a bit anxious that someone will say something cruel. There's a tendency to come up with the most cutting response possible.

And the cutting response often has nothing to do with how one feels about a subject in general.
post #177 of 251
It was asked earlier what parents did before harnesses.

A number of people already shared about leading strings, which came long before anyone thought of strollers.


Other options:
Live in a place where dashing off generally didn't cause harm (as long as the adults had been vigilant about keeping the local predator population at bay)

Force the child to hold their, or a nursemaid's, hand at all times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursemaid%27s_elbow

Watch as their child got trampled under a horse's hooves.

Wear/carry their child in all dangerous situations.

Have children who just naturally stay close better.

Run after their child.
post #178 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
The only two people who get a vote are the parent and the child involved. If either of them don't like it, it's a no-go, but if they both like it, then yay!
ITA. Well said.
post #179 of 251
i got a backpack with a lease for my then 2.5 yr old to use while travelling. He loves it. He would ask me to put it on him all the time. It's perfect for crowded places and keeps him safe. not damaging at all.
post #180 of 251
Btw, I never wore one as a child, but remember a number of times as an older child (7-10) where it would've been nice to have a string or something to hold onto while following my parents' shoes around a store. You know that horrible moment when you say "Mommy, can we...?" to the person in front of you and they're a complete stranger?
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