Are those leashes/harnesses for kids demeaning? - Page 11

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by Draupadi

Never said the Victorians were role models, but they did sometimes have their children on leashes.

In your travels, did you see people wearing their babies in Bjorns, slings, mei tais, wraps, back packs, pouches, etc?
If you did, then the child was being restrained, right?

I sincerely don't get why people believe that harnesses are so bad. Most say because they "look bad". If a child is being kept safe then what is the big deal? Seriously. I personally could care less what anyone thought as long as my child is safe. When he is harnessed, he is moving around and exploring safely. There is more independence for a child in a harness than there is for one being worn.
And to repeat- I still wear my very large 2 year old. I have nothing against baby wearing since I still do it.
I hardly even use the harness (I've had it for almost a year and have probably used it all of 5 times) but you can be certain I'll be using it at the airport in 2 weeks so my son can move around but still be safe.

I just think that a leash is whole-ly avoidable and that avoiding the use of one can't be bad and might actually be the better option. This just goes along with my parenting ideals.

Yes, in Africa moms did wear their LOs... a lot. On the back. And guess what, the child didnt have a choice to be down running around touching things and experiencing things on their own unless they could be trusted to stay close to mom, or even help her doing her tasks. And there certainly weren't trips to the zoo because their LO had to get out of the house and be places other than home. And I did not find these children to be disrespected. In fact just the opposite, I strive to take a page out of the mothers I knew in Africas book. They balanced responsibility, practicality, respect for themselves and their children with teaching their children the when's where's and what's. I often remind myself that respecting my LO does not mean conceding to her wishes/demands or keeping up with societal norms like trips to the park everyday.

And to another poster who wondered if in Africa there were the same things to worry about like traffic.
Yes, there was traffic.
There were also biting baboons, huge black snakes, kidnappers, men with machine guns or swords on horseback......just to name a few things. And don't think that the moms cared less for their LO's safety, either. I just think it would not have occured to them to tether their children to a leash. I think the options were I carry you on my back or you learn to walk beside mommy because that is safe and you need to learn to be safe if you are going to survive. Period. SO...maybe you have the luxury in America to use a leash and no one has told you how silly it is and you think it works great and alls well that ends well.

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

And are you implying that your daughter actually has a need to go to the zoo and stuff like that? Because I don't even think she would know what a zoo was if you hadn't introduced it to her.
Are you also saying that there are no safe, age appropriate places to be outside the house with your LO to fill her need of being out safely while maintaining a leashfree relationship with her?

I am. We live in a rural area and there are parking lots everywhere. And my daughter LOVES the zoo. She has a NEED to be out and social with other children and to enjoy new experiences. She just thrives on it. Seriously, not go to the zoo because you have a darter/runner? Seriously?

We do not, as I said, use the leash because she still hates it. Sadly, her inability to hold hands, sit in a carrier, use a leash, etc. etc. really limits how long we can stay places and what I can do with her. I would love to let her help with shopping but that is a no-go. She runs away.

And I don't have principles like, "No leashes." To me, that is a rule that follows from the principle, "No restraining my child from going where she does not want, ever, no matter what" which is not a principle I have. My principles are simple: Keep my child safe, respect her wishes, help her fulfill her wishes in a safe, loving way, help her learn to do the same for others.

The leash falls into the "safe" category. Because of the "respect her wishes" category, we do not use it if she objects. However, it is sometimes hard to reconcile this with "fulfill her wishes" if her wish is to go to the zoo.

We explained this to her but her 30-month-old brain does not comprehend the safety issues involved in darting into a crowd at a public zoo, and therefore, we have not come to an agreement as to how to deal with that yet.

However, for those that can use the leash, I ENVY you!

[EdnaMarie]

Yes, in Africa moms did wear their LOs... a lot. On the back.

Honestly, do you know the infant and child mortality statistics for some countries in Africa? And don't tell me it's all handwashing. Kids fall into the firepit. Kids are stolen.

My child, given the choice between a carrier and the stroller and the leash, would choose the leash. Though, she would scream for all three.

In Africa, you can usually leave the child with another relative at home. Not so here.

Regardless of traffic, the situations are not comparable. Plus maybe they don't have leashes in Africa!

And moreover, I saw a leash used in Asia and everyone was marveling and asking where the user got it. "In New York!" she said, beaming. Ensues discussion of how to make said leash in their own country. ("You can buy buckles at the sewing shop!")

[Super Glue Mommy]

the leash is avoidable for my family, and since my child wouldnt like it anyway, it is the better option.

for other families, they could avoid using the leash BUT it wouldnt eb the better option for them and their child, because their child would be happy on a leash but not happy or safe any other way.

just respecting that different children are well, different, and I respect that. I don't find it demeaning, by definition, to allow your child freedom instead of saying "either you do it this way or you dont get to walk around".

[sisteeesmama]

[QUOTE=EdnaMarie;13657217]I am. We live in a rural area and there are parking lots everywhere. And my daughter LOVES the zoo. She has a NEED to be out and social with other children and to enjoy new experiences. She just thrives on it. Seriously, not go to the zoo because you have a darter/runner? Seriously?QUOTE]

Seriously.

And it's quite the charmed life that you and your child lead that going to the zoo just because she wants to is a way of life.

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

the leash is avoidable for my family, and since my child wouldnt like it anyway, it is the better option.

for other families, they could avoid using the leash BUT it wouldnt eb the better option for them and their child, because their child would be happy on a leash but not happy or safe any other way.

just respecting that different children are well, different, and I respect that. I don't find it demeaning, by definition, to allow your child freedom instead of saying "either you do it this way or you dont get to walk around".

Like I said, it is just not the universal truth that children can or even should get to have the ulitmate say. And I don't think thats bad or disrespectful at all. I think you can respect someone and still say there are ways that things must be done. I don't feel disrespected that I don't get to do everything I want to do when I want to do it just because I want to do it. I just relaize that that is a fact of life.

[Super Glue Mommy]

that is fine that you think that. that is not what this thread is abou really though. its just that is its NOT demeaning to honor your child. perhaps it goes against your philosophy, that is different then it being demeaning to respect a child *in a different way* (by honoring their desire to wear a harness instead of be in a sling for example)

I'm not saying disappointment equates to disrespect, im just saying that respect does not equate to demeaning.

[Super Glue Mommy]

what is wrong with going to the zoo if you want to?

do you do NOTHING you want to do? I uderstand disappointment but if you and your child want to go to the zoo and you can afford it why is that bad to do? its not unsafe, its not unhealthy - its just one of many enriching experiences. Its not needed to have an enriched life, but it is one way to enrich life. there is nothing wrong with enjoying life. If chooseing to enjoy life instead means your life is charmed then id be happy to be guilty of that.

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

Honestly, do you know the infant and child mortality statistics for some countries in Africa? And don't tell me it's all handwashing. Kids fall into the firepit. Kids are stolen.

In Africa, you can usually leave the child with another relative at home. Not so here.

Regardless of traffic, the situations are not comparable. Plus maybe they don't have leashes in Africa!

Fall into the fire pit? I don't even know what that means?

I seriously don't know what the infant mortality rate for some countires in Africa has to do with this discuccion of leashes for children at all.

About leaving your child with another family member, I don't know wher you are getting that idea. I did not encounter lots of mothers leaving their children with their grandmothers to go off and do other things.

And why, regardless of traffic aren't the situations comparable???


Is this discussion only about pampered mothers in America who have the leisure of spending their days at the ZOO?

[lotusdebi]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

Is this discussion only about pampered mothers in America who have the leisure of spending their days at the ZOO?

Maybe we should have a poll. How many people posting on this thread are living in Africa vs. how many people posting on this thread are living in America and have taken their children to the zoo at least once. Then maybe we'll have a better idea of what population of people we're representing and, thus, primarily discussing.

[Super Glue Mommy]

hehehe

I'm in america - I take my kids to the zoo.

I've never been to africa, but from what I understand you get to experience wildlife there naturally in a way that, because the societ we DO live in, we can only experience if we went to the zoo.

Perhaps sist has more of a problem with the way american environment is set up, and not so much with the way people operate within that environment?

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

Them:...

Exactly how we should respond. Like I said, it's not the best response to return rudeness for rudeness.

I think you might be a bit too nice to really get this.

"I would've said XYZ" doesn't mean someone believes XYZ.

I'm sorry you were hurt by the remark.

[Super Glue Mommy]

hehe awe, me too nice, whoever thought I would here that here on MDC. thank you. I am just really working on being more accepting in general - though in person I find it easier not to get defensive because I have confrontation. So basically, in person I have worked on speaking up, but without being rude. In internet world I have to work on not bring rude though... basically, I'm just balancing it all out.

anyway I totally UNDERSTAND why someone would want to be flippant in that situation ... I am just at the point now where I can realize its not useful, other then for making yourself feel better - and if you really feel confident in what you are doing you don't need ot put someone else down, not even in defense.

have you checked out the work by byron katie? its been so helpful for me, but I am still a huge mess of a work in progress

[sapphire_chan]

Nvm. I will follow Super Glue Mommy's example instead.

This just seems an odd topic to choose to accuse dozens of mamas of demeaning their children while at the same time spoiling them.

[mntnmom]

I wouldn't use it every day, but I have harnessed my children. With 2 or 3 small children and luggage in an airport, you can't hold everyones' hand. Or a busy city street, or a train platform. Especially when your 2 yr old decides to bolt. And FTR, for some of us, traveling is NOT really avoidable.
It is not a substitute for consensual boundary setting, affection, or parental supervision. A harness is an insurance policy for dangerous situations.
I really don't want my "charmed" children being injured in an avoidable way while engaging in the occasion necessities of our life.

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

"I'm a better mom than you because I stay at home all the time." ?

Please clarify.

Come now, this is just silly!

[Super Glue Mommy]

I agree, I felt the notion that staying home allthe time somehow makes someone a better mom to be a silly insinuation as well. You were the one who implied it though, not sapphire.. I think she just wanted clarification, in hopes that you didnt really mean it the way it came across.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

I think she just wanted clarification, in hopes that you didnt really mean it the way it came across.

Yes. But I decided that it was better to assume you, Sisteesmama, didn't mean it that way.

[sisteeesmama]

I'm going to drop out of this discussion, i'm sure the OP has enough opinion to make her mind up.

[Super Glue Mommy]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Nvm. I will follow Super Glue Mommy's example instead.

This just seems an odd topic to choose to accuse dozens of mamas of demeaning their children while at the same time spoiling them.

This was the part I was just having a hard time understanding as well. Spoiling by giving child what they want, meaning that you are demeaning them. I am always open to understand another point of view. I cant understand this. I also don't think put downs are necessary in sharing why one doesn't feel comfortable with one practice or another