Are those leashes/harnesses for kids demeaning? - Page 12

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

I agree, I felt the notion that staying home allthe time somehow makes someone a better mom to be a silly insinuation as well. You were the one who implied it though, not sapphire.. I think she just wanted clarification, in hopes that you didnt really mean it the way it came across.

Oh please, this is ridiclulous!
I was stating how I do it. I do it that way because it resounds with me as right. I don't spend my time thinking up ways I can do things to be better than someone I never met on MDC! I think this conversation has gone overboard. Evidently no one wanted any honesty unless it contained the words "everything everyother mom does is awesome, I agree with everyone that leashes are the bomb and even if I don't use them and think they are wierd I still love and respect everything everyone else does, viva la leash!"


Sorry, I didn't get the memo until just now!

"Leashes ROCK!"

adios!

[Super Glue Mommy]

It's fine that you do it how it works for you. I think the offense came from saying it was demeaning to do it a way different then the way you do it. The implication that there is only 1 right way - yours. I am sorry you are feeling so frustrated, I don't think that was anyone's intent. I think some people were just feeling hurt by certain word choices.

[~pi]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

And to another poster who wondered if in Africa there were the same things to worry about like traffic.
Yes, there was traffic.
There were also biting baboons, huge black snakes, kidnappers, men with machine guns or swords on horseback......just to name a few things. And don't think that the moms cared less for their LO's safety, either. I just think it would not have occured to them to tether their children to a leash. I think the options were I carry you on my back or you learn to walk beside mommy because that is safe and you need to learn to be safe if you are going to survive. Period.

A surgeon I know has had work funded to do basic surgery in Africa with children who have been injured. Child injury is a major issue there, and sadly does not get nearly the attention that communicable disease does.

I do hear what you're saying, but it's worth considering that context is everything in this discussion. (In fact, I think that's probably true for every discussion about individual choices.)

[mormontreehugger]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Btw, I never wore one as a child, but remember a number of times as an older child (7-10) where it would've been nice to have a string or something to hold onto while following my parents' shoes around a store. You know that horrible moment when you say "Mommy, can we...?" to the person in front of you and they're a complete stranger?

Just had to say, I STILL would like something like that! I hate accidentally thinking someone is DH from behind...

As for harnesses, I never had one as a kid, but if I ever did, I'm willing to bet I wouldn't have minded it. I wonder if I have sensory issues sometimes though, because when DH is trying to be affectionate while we're taking a walk and he wants to put his arm around me or hold my hand, I usually prefer not to because I feel.. confined? Like my stride is a little bit 'off' and I can't really relax. Also, when I was kid I'd freak out if anyone touched my head or hair. Still don't like that...

So yeah, I think I would have preferred a harness. I remember seeing them when I was older and thinking how great they'd be for kids in crowded places. Oddly, it never ocurred to me then that they'd be running off. I just read too many stories about abductions... (Anyone ever read The Face on the Milk Carton?)

All that said, I hope to use some CC type stuff during the early years and see if it works for my kids to keep them from growing into runners. But I would never hesitate to use one if it was a mutually agreeable situation.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by mormontreehugger

Just had to say, I STILL would like something like that! I hate accidentally thinking someone is DH from behind...

Heck, that's what the back of DH's shirt is for. If you ever see a grown man following another one around by holding on to the back of his shirt, it's me.

[heartmama]

This thread is veering off topic. Please return to the original questions posted by the OP.

Also, please refrain from taking a sarcastic tone with each other, regardless of cultural differences. Everyone here is expected to follow the User Agreement:

Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.

[EdnaMarie]

And it's quite the charmed life that you and your child lead that going to the zoo just because she wants to is a way of life.

Why else would anyone go to the zoo? Or the nature reserve? Or the park, or the fair? Because you have to?

[heartmama]

This thread will have to be closed if the conversation does not return to the original discussion. I do not like closing threads like this so please do not continue responding to posts that are not on topic.

[savithny]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

I was referring to comments like this:

My kid is up and walking. Yours is strapped with a 5-point harness to an inanimate object with wheels. Which of these things is more demeaning?"

imlying a stroller is deamning... there were other negative references throughout as well. Which I understand was said in defense. I am on the "pro harness" side of this conversation.

Thank you for understanding where I was coming from sapphire chan.

That was me, and the context is that if I was going to get a comment about my kid's harness being "demeaning" or "bad parenting," I was ready and willing to point out the hypocrisy of saying that to me while their child was strapped into a stroller. I used a bit of Reducto ad Absurdam (calling the stroller an inanimate wheeled object to make that point more clearly.

I like strollers, I used them frequently. I see them as parenting tools just as slings and harnesses are. They have their places, and they have their kids who need or like them. But the general gist of most harness discussions I've gotten into is "OOh, you bad parent! Leashing your child like a DOG! You should TRAIN your child to HOLD YOUR HAND ALL THE TIME! Little Ghennyfyrr here knows she has to hold my hand EVERY MOMENT or its BACK IN THE STROLLER WITH HER!"

(surely you must see the inconsistency and, frankly, hypocrisy in that particular harness criticism. First, that a harness treats a child like a dog, yet the other parent has *trained* their child, second, that strapping the child into the stroller is somehow different than strapping on a backpack. Add to that the fact that the stroller is clearly being treated as a punishment in that example - 'behave, or I'll strap you in!" -- brings out my sarcastic responses).

[Super Glue Mommy]

yes I do se the hypocrisy in it. As I said I just dont think it solves anything to be rude to someone who is being rude to you (there is a hypocrisy in that as well, eh?). I definitely dont blame anyone for being annoyed by others rudeness or hypocritcal statements though.

[skolbut]

To the OP:
I didn't read all the responses but I did read the last page and I didn't feel like reading through all the nonsense, so if you've gotten this already, sorry.

First of all, your sister isn't raising your children. You are. You are the parent. Just because my sister thinks meat is gross doesn't mean my kids will be vegetarians, kwim??

I won't use a leash bc my mother did to me and I was mortified when I ran into my preschool teacher while we were out once. I wasn't a runner but a certifiable wanderer and I could see having a preschooler, toddler, and newborn being stressful in hindsight.

However, I have a friend with a ds who's a runner. She uses a little backback in the shape of a teddy bear and has a strap that hooks on it. It's cute and great and handy, and she only has to use the leash part when necessary, otherwise her ds has his own waterbottle and snack packed with him, along with emergency info on a card inside it just in case he does get away. That I don't think would be demeaning, it would be a safety item.

For the zoo... I prefer to wear my little one and let my toddler ride in the stroller. Would that be an option for you?? Or I might suggest borrowing an extra from a friend so you have 2 strollers or go pick up a 10 dollar umbrella stroller to use as an extra (then use it to leave at grandparents or a friends or something); or check out the buddy board to hook onto the back of your stroller. Another thing my ds2 is really good at if he insists on walking by himself is hanging onto the side of the stroller. I've also heard of people tying a balloon onto their LO at fairs or zoos or other busy places for easy locating. There's also the gps thingys you can tie onto their shoes that they have in the duracell commercial, but I wouldn't know where to buy one and they're probably expensive.

[Litcrit]

so it's like for a dog - for a good reason

What I don't get is WHY the leash per se would be demeaning, more so than other restrictive safety devices, such as hand-holding, strollers or babywearing. It appears to be because there is an association with dogs' leashes.

But there's a good reason for that.

Dogs and tiny tots have many things in common. Though possessed of instincts and intelligence, they don't have the rational capacity to estimate risks or the appropriate behavior in systems made by human adults - such as big city traffic. They have to be controlled from the outside - whether by verbal commands or by physically containing them in some way. Kids outgrow this, (most) dogs don't.

But even with dogs, you can use a leash with respect of their needs and wishes, as a safety device. When I walked my puppy, I let him wander around, sniff whatever he wanted, stop in the middle of the sidewalk. When we got to the park, I unleashed him. He only felt the leash get taut if he wanted to run out into the street and get hit by a car, or jump on a child. I'd have done the same with my kid, if she wasn't a clingy little thing who won't venture away from me anyway.

[Snuzzmom]

OP: We have a monkey harness/ leash/ backpack/ whatever. I don't use it much but that's only because I keep forgetting I have it.

DS seems to like it fine and doesn't seem to feel demeaned by it, but he's 2.5, so it's hard to tell.

I was just thinking about trying to use it more because lately he doesn't want to be in the cart at the grocery store, but it's kind of hard to shop with him holding my hand. Since it's a big place, lots of distractions, lots of people, etc., I thought I'd try the monkey-pack to see if he prefers that to being in the cart.

I would say... try it. If you DC doesn't like it, stop! But really, don't worry too much about what people will think, because you can't win. Some people will think it's a great idea and some people will think you're horrible for using it. If it works for you and your situation and your DC is into it, go for it!

[chipper26]

Isn't the alternative more "demeaning," which IMO would be the control your child using less gentle means or force him to stay in the stroller or force him to hold your hand. The hand holding thing is impossible anyway with a stroller. I used to think the same thing about leashes as our sister before I had kids and understood the reality of the situation. Does she think you should spank your LO if they run away? What's her solution? (I should probably go back and read the other posts.)

[chipper26]

Originally Posted by Gentle~Mommy :)

She said people will 'bark' at him at the zoo, and I would just die, really I would.


Please tell me that won't happen.

To me, this says a heck of a lot more about the person barking than it does about you. I mean, really, an adult taunting a 2-year-old. They'd be the ones who were embarrassed. The backpack leashes are pretty common... I saw some cute ones today at Target.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Gentle~Mommy :)

My sister is giving me a hard time, it looks like I am walking a dog when my little guy wears his.

We have been practicing with it around the house because we are going to the zoo next weekend and he keeps running away from us out in pubic so I want to use it at the zoo to keep him safe. He hates the stroller and his baby brother will be in the stroller anyway.

He loves the harness, it is like a monkey and I hold the tail part.

My sister says it's demeaning to have my child on a leash and will harm him emotionally. :

Is that true?

I'm going to read the whole thread later. I will say that my dd used a harness for several months (late pregnancy and after my c-section) and if it harmed her emotionally, she hides it well. She's volatile and very sensitive, but she's been that way since birth. She loved the harness, and any time she comes across it, she tries to put it on and play (it doesn't fit her very well anymore). She's also a fiercely independent, very strong personality, so I don't think it damaged her in that way, if that's what your sister is getting at.

And, does your sister have anything to back that up, or is she just talking? There are strong opinions on this one, but I don't think I've ever seen any research, or even any anecdotes, to back up the "they're emotionally damaging" assertion.

[felix23]

I haven't read the whole thread because I've participated in enough of these threads to know how it went. To the OP, I used a harness with dd1 and she loved it. She is three and doesn't need it anymore, but she still likes to put in on and wear her "backpack" She doesn't appear to be emotionally damaged, no one ever barked at her (I got plenty of parents chasing their children who asked where I got it), and it didn't stop her from learning how to safely walk with me.

[WC_hapamama]

To answer the OP, I would much rather some immature fathead bark at my kid than have my child get lost or hurt at the zoo.

My youngest child is a runner, he's fearless and independent. He's taken off on me in busy stores TWICE. After the second time we bought him a monkey backpack/harness that we use when he wants to be able to get out of the cart or stroller and explore. I'd rather use the harness than have anotther heartsick 5 minutes of frantically trying to find my little one. That was the worst feeling in the world.

[nudhistbudhist]

Originally Posted by churndash

Parents who think that since their kid is on a leash, they don't have to pay any attention to what he's actually doing (like in one case I observed at a campsite, where the carefully leashed child was stuffing leaves and sticks in his mouth while his mother chatted away, completely oblivious).

I happen to let my 8 mo eat dirt, sticks, leaves. I don't see why that's such a problem. I believe its part of exploring and connecting with the earth and the earths gifts:. I find it safer than chewing on plastic toys, or toys covered in chemical paints and lacquers. Germs are good!!!! Chemicals are bad!!!

And a leash is a tool. To be against leashes is to be against hammers. Yes, you can kill someone with a hammer, but you can also build with it

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by nudhistbudhist

I happen to let my 8 mo eat dirt, sticks, leaves. I don't see why that's such a problem. I believe its part of exploring and connecting with the earth and the earths gifts:. I find it safer than chewing on plastic toys, or toys covered in chemical paints and lacquers. Germs are good!!!! Chemicals are bad!!!

And a leash is a tool. To be against leashes is to be against hammers. Yes, you can kill someone with a hammer, but you can also build with it

Eating dirt, sticks and leaves can lead to illnesses that kill. And there are other things on the ground I doubt you'd let your 8 month old eat...