POLL: Association between vaccines and autism diagnosis - Page 3

[sbgrace]

Originally Posted by rileyscoutmom

I do also believe that there is frank autism (which is probably genetic in nature) and regressive autism (which is a neurological response to an overload of toxins). This is just my opinion based upon the wide variety of reading and research that I have done (and I am an MLS research librarian, but by no means a doctor) for myself and our family who have been personally very touched by this issue.

Karen

Karen
I agree that regressive autism and autism from birth are two different animals. I do, however, believe that regressive autism also has genetic/DNA roots. In fact, I believe that the vast majority of kids who regress likely have an underlying metabolic or genetic condition. And it's not exclusively toxins or vaccines that cause those regressions--any insult on the body can and do. My kiddo has one of those conditions (discovered at 3.5) and he did regress without vaccines. I think his was partly due to fevers and ear infections I was treating without fever suppression and with diet/chiropractic/etc. changes. It was too much for his system. But I mention because it is this that bothers me about these discussions. Because you could live and assume it was vaccines and tackle things from that angle and never realize the underlying issue (say a metabolic condition) and never get appropriate treatment. Anyway, any child who regresses deserves a metabolic work up by a specialist who knows the full range of conditions (including mitochondrial). Other signs of metabolic conditions being behind autism are in this link. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=734501

[angelpie545]

Originally Posted by sbgrace

Karen
I agree that regressive autism and autism from birth are two different animals. I do, however, believe that regressive autism also has genetic/DNA roots. In fact, I believe that the vast majority of kids who regress likely have an underlying metabolic or genetic condition. And it's not exclusively toxins or vaccines that cause those regressions--any insult on the body can and do. My kiddo has one of those conditions (discovered at 3.5) and he did regress without vaccines. I think his was partly due to fevers and ear infections I was treating without fever suppression and with diet/chiropractic/etc. changes. It was too much for his system. But I mention because it is this that bothers me about these discussions. Because you could live and assume it was vaccines and tackle things from that angle and never realize the underlying issue (say a metabolic condition) and never get appropriate treatment. Anyway, any child who regresses deserves a metabolic work up by a specialist who knows the full range of conditions (including mitochondrial). Other signs of metabolic conditions being behind autism are in this link. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=734501

I agree with this. I don't think autism has any one particular cause, but is rather a condition caused by many things. Vaccines are just one of those things that could possibly cause autism. I think that medical community has to open up it's mind to the possibility before it can really be accurately researched. The only real way to accurately perform accurate research on this subject is to compare an unvaccinated portion of the population with a vaccinated portion.

[ericswifey27]

Originally Posted by angelpie545

I agree with this. I don't think autism has any one particular cause, but is rather a condition caused by many things. Vaccines are just one of those things that could possibly cause autism. I think that medical community has to open up it's mind to the possibility before it can really be accurately researched. The only real way to accurately perform accurate research on this subject is to compare an unvaccinated portion of the population with a vaccinated portion.

(My bolding)

Which has yet to be done on a large scale...

I believe that my son was damaged by vaccines. I always believed his eczema which began after his first round of shots, and the allergies he developed were not coincidental. We are starting to see evidence my hunch was true with articles showing IgE responses are triggered at the time of immunization, and what you ingest around that time you can develop an allergy to. There is also evidence linking seizures to immunization. In fact, every doctor I have come across can tell you (after the fact)that the Pertussis portion of the DTaP is highly reactive.

So the evidence may not be all the way in yet, but it took a while for cigarrettes to be linked to cancer. The fertility drugs taken in the 70s were deemed safe... until it was proved children were being born without arms and fingers because of it. Personally I'm not waiting for the "judgement" saying that vaccines are indeed one of many causes for autism and the explosion of childhood disorders and cancers today... I see what is happening in my family, my friends, and my community.

[ChristSavesAll]

Where's the poll that says..

I have a child that had a severe adverse reaction
I have children that had a severe adverse reaction..
I know a child that had a severe adverse reaction
I know children that had a severe adverse reaction

I have a child that had a mild adverse reaction
I have children that had a mild adverse reaction
I know a child that had a mild adverse reaction
I know children that had a mild adverse reaction

My child never had an adverse reaction
I don't know any child that has had an adverse reaction....

I'd like to see what that poll holds..

[Sileree]

I said yes. I believe children born in the early '90s and on were poisoned based on reading the Simpsonwood transcript and internal emails between CDC officials such as this:

"The range of exposures at 4 to 5 months of age (after the 2nd dose of DTP, Hib and Hep B) in the VSD study was from 150-250 micrograms of thimerosal or 75-125 micrograms of ethyl Hg."

-- Dr. Robert Chen, Director of Vaccine Safety at the CDC, June 26, 2001

"... my estimate is that you need at least >50 [mcg of mercury] by 3 months or >100 by 6 months to see an effect..."

-- Dr. Thomas Verstraeten, head of internal analysis of CDC Vaccine Safety Data, June 26, 2001

[Jugs]

In our situation, I believe so. My 4 year old suffered a pretty serious reaction to his vaxes as at 6 months old, including brain encephalopothy (earlier reactions, like pp mentioned, was severe eczema after each round, but I never made the connection at the time). Thankfully, no serious permanent damage was done, but he was diagnosed with autism at 3 years old. A recent urine analysis revealed unbound mercury; based on our diet, locale and quality of water, the only likely source was his supposedly mercury-free vaccines. And now, each biomedical treatment we implement brings small but noticeable improvements.

[rileyscoutmom]

I guess a main question I have is this: How do you have a genetic epidemic? How would a disease affect multiple people groups among various continents, etc. and everyone be having the same types of genetic mutations? It is my understanding that autism as we currently define it really wasn't labeled as such until around 1914 (I may be wrong about this).

And what about 3rd world countries - are they having the same type of autism epidemic as industrialized nations? I honestly do not know about this comparative data.

And how can autism rates vary so widely among states (http://www.fightingautism.org/idea/a...evalence.php)?

I don't think that real studies are being done - especially since so much of the studies have seemed to focus primarily on mmr/thimersol. And autism needs to be reclassified from a psychological disorder (it is listed in the DSM-IV - possibly as a nuerological disorder) to a medical disease so that children and their families can get the health care coverage they need.

Karen

[phrogger]

i haven't read all the responses, but I will say, I believe that vaccines ARE associated with the rise in autism. Infact, I will go as far as to say that I believe 100% that my step son became autistic after his 15 month vaccines. There is no doubt in my mind and even his medical charts (since I didn't know him at the time) confirm this.

What I do however believe is that vaccines are not going to cause every child to become autistic. I think there has to be something else going on and that this is the trigger for regressive autism. My step son comes from a family with a lot of mental illness all over the place, on both sides of the family. I believe my step son has a genetic predisposition to neurological problems and the vaccines are what triggered that predisposition. I think had he not had the neurologically predisposed genetics, he might have been fine, but that just isn't the case.

[newmum35]

Anyone listen to Dr Eisenstein webinars? I heard 2 recently, they were really good! He is a dr (and lawyer!) from Chicago, IL (and I think he trains a group of doctors, or is part of a big group) - they have had 35,000 UNvaccinated kids over the years, and not ONE of them developed autism! That speaks volumes in my opinion. His next webinar about vaccines is on may 20 http://www.homefirst.com/

[ericswifey27]

Originally Posted by ChristSavesAll

Where's the poll that says..

I have a child that had a severe adverse reaction
I have children that had a severe adverse reaction..
I know a child that had a severe adverse reaction
I know children that had a severe adverse reaction

I have a child that had a mild adverse reaction
I have children that had a mild adverse reaction
I know a child that had a mild adverse reaction
I know children that had a mild adverse reaction

My child never had an adverse reaction
I don't know any child that has had an adverse reaction....

I'd like to see what that poll holds..

Yes, make a poll!

[Princessyoga]

Originally Posted by carriebft

*raises hand* I have gone into it so many times before I just kinda stay away from the issue, but, since no one else is coming forward I will definitely say I was one of the 'no connection' people. If you want to know more about why, I can PM you a few threads I participated in....I think I can still find them by searching...they were quite large

I've been trying to wean myself away from vaccine debates anyway- I end up getting caught up. short version is mostly the research we have and also the promising research we have on other causes as well as problems with the anecdotal side- many but would take long time to get in to. I'll leave it at that.

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

I really wish at least one person with a dissenting view would post their reasons for certainty that vaccines have no association to autism.

I will add my voice to the dissenting camp. What I will say is when I had my dd I was concerned about the connecting between MMR and autism. I looked into various options one jab, individual jabs or declining them all together. I work with people with learning disabilities and autism so what I did was speak to our advice people and did my own research. Based on the advice and research we decided to to vax her. I think there is connection between the age that children tend to be diagnosed and the onset of autism and the timing of the MMR jab but it is not down to the jab itself. There are many factors that lead to autism. I made the decision based on what was best on my family and trust other families will do the same for theirs.

NB: I say I made the decision because of my working in the field for years dh left me to make the decision.