Would this be hideously rude?

[KaylaBeanie]

This is purely in the future/hypothetical.

My brother and SIL are staunchly pro-circ:, despite the information I've given them from a medical standpoint (they still think it's cleaner and not gross looking) and a religious standpoint (they're Christian and don't care what the NT says). Nope. Whatever, I've done my best and I'm not going to drive myself to the crazyhouse when they'll never change their minds. My SIL is so natural minded too, which makes no sense to me. She had both my nieces 100% drug free with a midwife, eats organic and nursed the oldest and is currently nursing the baby. But god forbid, those ugly penises.. I'm convinced they're only going to have girls since they're so pro-circ. But brother insists they keep going until they get a boy, which leads me to this...

If and when they discover SIL is pregnant with a boy, would it be rude for me to demand they not speak a word about circ to me, and tell them I will never change a diaper? It breaks my heart knowing any nephews they give me will go through it, and I'd seriously burst out crying if I ever had to change his diaper. That means no babysitting and possible hostility from my brother though...would this be rude? I can't stop thinking it might be after I was told by someone I'd be punishing my nephew.

[Smokering]

Would it be rude? Does it matter? If I found out my SIL was planning to circ I'd spam her with anti-circ information and say something along the lines of "When your son reaches the age of reason I'll tell him exactly what you did to him despite knowing what it entailed, and help him sue the pants off you".

I'm charming like that. In your situation: no, it's perfectly appropriate not to want to hear about circ. Although the more they discuss it in your presence, the more opportunities you have to refute any misinformation. If SIL says "Oh, and it prevents UTIs too", you can step in and say "Actually...", whereas if she talks about it when you're not around you can't.

[KaylaBeanie]

That's the worst part...they know it's completely unnecessary/cosmetic and still want to do it. SIL was a substitute teacher for special ed, saw an intact boy and thought he was hideously deformed. My brother told her he was just intact and she said she'd never "do that" to her son. "Do that" meaning leaving him as nature intended

[secondseconds]

That would be beyond rude. You'd be keeping your love and care from your nephew because you don't agree with his parents, therefore punishing HIM for something he had no control over.

[secondseconds]

Originally Posted by secondseconds

That would be beyond rude. You'd be keeping your love and care from your nephew because you don't agree with his parents, therefore punishing HIM for something he had no control over.

I hit post before I meant to. Anyway, before this kid gets here, do your best to change their minds but once he's here it's done. You have to let it go for the sake of the baby.

[KaylaBeanie]

I didn't mean to sound like I'd dislike the kid or anything...he'd have no say, I'd love him just as much as I love my nieces. I just know that, let's say I was babysitting him and changed his diaper, or I needed to give him a bath as a toddler, etc etc I'd cry every time I saw his maimed penis. Which I think is a lot more damaging to a baby/toddler's psyche than just not changing his diaper or hearing from his parents how "great" his circ went. You know?

[knucklehead]

Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie

I didn't mean to sound like I'd dislike the kid or anything...he'd have no say, I'd love him just as much as I love my nieces. I just know that, let's say I was babysitting him and changed his diaper, or I needed to give him a bath as a toddler, etc etc I'd cry every time I saw his maimed penis. Which I think is a lot more damaging to a baby/toddler's psyche than just not changing his diaper or hearing from his parents how "great" his circ went. You know?

I doubt that he will hear "how great his circ went" when he is old enough to understand nor do I think he will remember your crying over his circ'd penis and have his psyche damaged. And honestly I think for his sake you would have to exercise a bit of self control and not make an issue of it in front of him if he was old enough to understand. Afterall it isn't his fault and you don't want him to feel bad about himself. A child should never be made to feel bad about their genitals whether intact or not.

I agree with secondseconds that you need to preserve the relationship you will have with this boy because if you come on so strong his parents might not let you near him. I wouldn't think too highly of someone threatening to tell my child disparaging things about me. I obviously agree with your position on the subject but if you want a relationship with your nephew you're going to have to let it drop.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I dont see a thing wrong with telling the boy later on why he was circed and letting him know he could sue over it.

Parents need to get it into their heads that children are not property to be altered to fit their expectations :

[SaraLe6]

Do your brother/SIL have email? I would totally email them that webpage with all the disgusting looking botched circ's... looks better my butt! I almost threw up looking at them!

[alegna]

I think it's perfectly understandable. Personally I couldn't maintain a relationship with someone who chose to circ. knowing better.

-Angela

[tutucrazy]

This is my current nightmare. My brother and SIL are expecting a boy. I send them countless emails and I sent them the book "Doctors Re-examine Circumcision" With a NOCIRC dvd (public service announcement) I send them info about intact care and I just keep sending more and more. I have not heard a peep from them in response to all my efforts. I'm assuming this means that they want to circ. When it gets closer to time I am going to ask, "You are keeping him intact, right"? If they decide to circ, I know I will cry and feel very upset. We live on different continents so I don't ever have to see him or watch him though. I'm kinda glad for that. I will inform him about what was done to him though when he is older and give him information about restoration.

I don't know the best answer for you. For me it would be hard to see it. I saw my friend's son after his circ and it was horrifying. My intact boy is so perfect and whole. To me it feels so weird to see the glans of a child. The only time I see glans is when DH is erect.

I hope you never have to deal with this. It hurts a lot when you can't convince your family to see the truth.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

: there are limits even with family.

[KaylaBeanie]

Thanks for the opinions ladies. And if it seemed like I'd ever discuss it with him, my nephew, I wouldn't. I meant that we're a pretty close family and discuss everything, so the circ would be discussed in detail. All I'd tell bro and SIL is to A. never discuss my nephew's circ with me or around me, and B. never expect me to be in a situation such as a diaper change where I'd see it. I absolutely love my nieces, and I'd love to have nephews. It's depressing in a way because I positively dread the day they'll make the announcement. Everyone else in the family will be positively thrilled and I'll have to fake it until I can be alone and cry And it's not like I can really discuss it with family...my mom tolerates my intactivism, but let's just say had I been a boy I would have been circ'd with no regrets by my parents. My sister is only 15 and on the A.S.D, so she doesn't really comprehend it all like I do. My dad had my brother circ'd so I've never bothered discussing it with him...the last thing I want to do is get personal with my dad about his penis, you know?

It's just frustrating. As far as informing them more, I've done it all, they've read it all, they've seen it all and we finally agreed to just not discuss it anymore, because they'd bring it up in very inappropriate situations. I posted to Facebook a few months ago "Kayla got some new ink" as in a tattoo, and my SIL commented that obviously my problem with circ wasn't the permanence of it, since I was getting tattooed. I responded that I was an adult, making the choice to permanently change my body for myself. She went on about how if she let my niece decide what to do, she'd eat candy all day long and never sleep.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I dont think it would be rude at all to request that.

[robertandenith]

I don't think is rude to tell them you are not changing diapers. I would have done the same. You are still keeping touch, so what's the problem.

[Freefromitall]

It wouldn't be rude to ask them to refrain from talking about it with you. "Gee Family, this is a subject that I feel very passionate on. I know that you don't agree with me on it, and frankly, I get very upset thinking about a innocent baby, who's my family member on top of that, having this done to him. So in the interest of family peace, I'd appreciate it if you not bring it up around me, unless you decide you need more information on the risks of circing/benefits of intact."

I wouldn't threaten them with "If you do this, I won't babysit!" though. That comes off as just a tad manipulative, imho. And honestly, if a family member did that to me, it DEF. wouldn't help their cause, kwim?

If after his birth, this circ happens, and you honestly can't bring yourself to babysit or change a diaper, then just be busy/unavailable at those times.
You might find, (if it happens) that while it saddens you, it won't keep you from bonding with your nephew. You might still want to babysit, cuddle, change diapers, etc. So...I wouldn't throw that gauntlet down.

[jenP]

I don't think doing what you described would interfere in any way with you having a close relationship with your nephew. You didn't say anything about never speaking with the child after all; you simply said 1-you don't want the parents to talk about circ around you and 2-you don't want to change his diaper. Doesn't sound like a problem at all. Now, my only niece and nephew are out of state but as far as friend's children that I am close to, I maybe changed two diapers anyway. And that was not a particularly bonding experience with the child. For us, the diapering years were also the years where the parents were not away from the children long enough for anyone else to need to change a diaper, anyway.
In other words, saying "I don't want to look at his penis" should in no way impact your relationship with your nephew.

I wonder if it would help to try another approach with your brother? Hitting him with tons of anti-circ material may just make him feel defensive because he is circ'd. After all, he has to make himself feel okay by convincing himself that circumcised is better. Maybe if your mom had a story to tell, like she didn't know what it involved, she wasn't given a choice, she felt bad for how much pain he was in, etc. Or if you know circ'd fathers of intact sons who can talk to him about how they worked through their own issues and decided to protect their sons, how this in the end makes them feel more secure and confident as men and as fathers.
Good luck!

Jen

[KaylaBeanie]

We have different moms, and my mom had no sons. My dad was the one who made the decision.

And thanks, I'm feeling way better. Like I said...they're not even expecting yet. My niece is only 4 months old and nurses around the clock so SIL couldn't get pregnant yet regardless. I'll certainly try to bring it up again in a tactful way when they eventually do have a boy. I just have this awful gut feeling it'll be sooner rather than later, hence me posting this. What's funny is my brother and ex are actually the ones who have made me into such an intactivist...I joined a few groups on Facebook, not knowing much other than circ was just cosmetic and I wouldn't do it to my kids, but I didn't really care what others did. They, seeing I joined the group, brought it upon themselves to pester the crap out of me, which required me googling my butt off to support my position, and thus becoming outraged at all I saw. I just watched the Penn and Teller video for the first time and added it to my favorites so I could send it along when that day comes. Which is going to be soon, I can tell. Though I'll be praying like crazy I get all nieces from them

Oh, and if anything, I'll be extra close to my nephews should my best efforts fail...they'll need some good cuddles. It would be insanely shallow and cruel of me to have something out of his control affect my relationship with him. If we saw someone post that they'd never be able to have a good relationship with their nephew because of his disgusting, uncut penis we'd all be (rightfully) disgusted!

[KBecks]

Please tell them to get a loose circ. If they are going to do it for sure. Inform them about circ complications like the skin bridges, etc.

I would not tell them what to say or not say because you can't control them and it just gives them power to annoy you more. I don't think they would talk about circ much anyway, if they do, just change the subject or leave the room.

[EFmom]

I don't think it would be rude at all. Since when are people required to change or babysit other people's kids in the first place? You would be doing her a favor, and if it's upsetting for you, let her find somebody else to do it.