Tamora Pierce Fan Club - Page 3

[MusicianDad]

I'll admit that we never really had trouble with the language in our house.

[Ruthla]

We're in the middle of Bloodhound right now, and the Tortallian money system is so confusing! I can't seem to figure out how much money each coin is, relative to one another. I know a copper is less than a silver, and a silver is less than a gold, but by how much? I was hoping for a list somewhere, either an appendix at the back of the book, or a page on her website- something similar to what JK Rowling did when she explained the Sickles, Knutts, and Galleons. But she was able to incoroprate it into the book as Harry was learning about Wizarding money, but Beka already knows the money, so nobody's explaining it to her (or to us!!!!)

Another question I've had for a while now- is the Circle of Magic "world" the same as the Tortall world? I get the feeling they're the same world, but maybe a different place, possibly a different time (maybe a few centuries later than Alanna and Kel?) but then on the website Tammy mentions "a timeline of the Tortall Universe" which somehow implies that Circle of Magic is another universe altogether. I tried emailling her with this question, but all I got in response was a form letter.

[sapphire_chan]

Definitely different worlds. The technology levels are very similar, but the magics are completely different.

[MusicianDad]

Tortallin coins:

Gold Noble = 4 gold bits = 10 silver noble
Silver Noble = 10 copper nobles
Copper Noble is the lowest denomination.

Basically the closest real world comparison I can think of copper is a penny, silver is a dime, gold bit is a quarter, and gold noble is a dollar.

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Definitely different worlds. The technology levels are very similar, but the magics are completely different.

But ARE the magics different?

The main characters all have "unusual" magic, even for their own world. The magic found in the Tortall series (serieses? seri?) may be consistent with what's called "academic magic" in the Circle of Magic books.

MD- thanks for the explanation. I'm surprised that info isn't already in the FAQ's on Tammy's website. Also, if you're right, then I caught a typo in Bloodhound: Beka mentions that a gold bit is the equivilent of "two silver and 10 copper nobles". I think she meant "two silver and 5 copper nobles." It was compltely throwing me off when earlier they'd mentioned that 5 copper nobles was "half a silver noble". It's that (possible) typo that thoroughly confused me in the first place.

[MusicianDad]

Well I know that I found the information in the back of Bloodhound. So probably a typo. No one is perfect.

Tortall:
The gift is regular magic. The mage can use it for various tasks.

Wild Magic is like the gift, only it focuses more on one specific natural element.

Circle:
Academic magic is pretty much the same as the gift from Tortall.

Ambient magic is what the main characters have and it is more the ability to manipulate the magic already present in items (like plants, metal etc.)

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Circle:
Academic magic is pretty much the same as the gift from Tortall.

Which is exactly why I'm thinking they might be the same "world". Probably, only those with Ambient Magic would refer to "the Gift" as "Academic Magic". Or, the different terminology could come from being geographically far apart, and/or language changing over time.

Wild magic does seem sort of like Ambient Magic, but with animals.

[sapphire_chan]

Then there's the cultures.

You've got two countries with the same technology level, similar food, similar clothing, and then they aren't even close enough for any one to mention a word of them in the other country?

And no mention of any of the other countries mentioned in the books about the other universe. They travel to distant lands in the Circle books and not once does anyone refer to Tortall, Scanra, the Copper Isles (despite being at sea and with the Copper Isles running pirates), the Yamani, or any of the other Tortall-universe countries.

[sapphire_chan]

And with the crowd that hangs around with Daine, if there were other people doing magic based on things other than the Gift, it would've come up.

Numair's been everywhere, raised in Tyra, trained in Carthak (major empire not mentioned in Circle books), traveled all over as a spy. He would've known about other magic use.

Then too, he's a 'black robe' which is something that the Circle books don't talk about at all.


Cool thing! In checking on the spelling for Numair, I discovered that a book about his early life is being planned for 2011!!

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Which is exactly why I'm thinking they might be the same "world". Probably, only those with Ambient Magic would refer to "the Gift" as "Academic Magic". Or, the different terminology could come from being geographically far apart, and/or language changing over time.

Wild magic does seem sort of like Ambient Magic, but with animals.

I think the difference with wild magic and ambient magic is that wild magic can't ever be completely controlled. Ambient magic can.

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Then there's the cultures.

You've got two countries with the same technology level, similar food, similar clothing, and then they aren't even close enough for any one to mention a word of them in the other country?

And no mention of any of the other countries mentioned in the books about the other universe. They travel to distant lands in the Circle books and not once does anyone refer to Tortall, Scanra, the Copper Isles (despite being at sea and with the Copper Isles running pirates), the Yamani, or any of the other Tortall-universe countries.

Hence my wondering about them being different centuries. Country names can and do change over time. I just get the feeling that the Circle books might be several hundred years later (say, 500 years later than Alanna and 700 years later than Beka.)

[MusicianDad]

You have to take into consideration other differences too.

The gods/goddesses are different.

Months of the year are different.

Maps are different. True that they could be different sides of the world, but both continents are rather large and clearly have more to them then what is seen in the maps, though the bookes in some universes have given enough of a description to ascertain that they don't match with any areas in the other universe.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Hence my wondering about them being different centuries. Country names can and do change over time. I just get the feeling that the Circle books might be several hundred years later (say, 500 years later than Alanna and 700 years later than Beka.)

See, that's where I keep pointing back to the technology. It's not advanced enough for the time to be drastically different.

[Ruthla]

Yeah, I guess your'e right. The worlds do seem pretty similar though, and I wonder if Tammy would have made the COM books within the Tortall Universe if she'd known how popular her books would be, and how many books she'd end up writing within each world... nope, just checked, she wrote two quartets in Tortall before COM, so I guess she intended them to be separate worlds. And she DOES have more Circle books planned, following Tris's life (um, book 2 of "the circle reforged?") plus some stuff about Numair as a youngster.

Oh, and I checked the back of Bloodhound more carefully. I didn't find a chart of Corus money, clearly laid out, like I'd expected (which is why I didn't see it at first and asked on here.) But, by reading the glossary, I realized that the entries for the various forms of money, individually, defined them in relation to other coins.

Copper: lowest denomination (penny)
Copper noble: 10 coppers (dime)
Silver noble: 10 copper nobles, 100 coppers ($1)
Gold bit: 2.5 silver nobles, 25 copper nobles, or 250 coppers ($2.50)
Gold noble: 4 gold bits, 10 silver nobles, 100 copper nobles, or 1,000 coppers ($10)

All this time I thought "copper" was just slang for "copper noble", not realizing they were two different coins. The system makes more sense now, from coppers being used to buy bread, to gold nobles being only held by the very wealthy.

[Ruthla]

I'm wondering something about the language in the Beka Cooper books. Did Tammy Pierce make up these words, or did she take actual words from slang/street cant in an actual place? Did she maybe combine slang terms from different places? Or are these all made up?

I mean, "lad" is a real word. If she'd talked about "lads" and "lasses" I woudn't have been confused at all. But where did "gixie" come from? Her own head, or "the streets" of some town at some point in history?

I've also noticed how "swive" seems to be the exact synonym of "f*ck" in every single context where it's used. Whether it's Granny Fern talking about 'you need a good swiving" or "don't swive this up"- it has the exact same meaning. Did Tammy make up this word just so she could avoid using a "real cuss word" in her books?

Similarly, I noticed how she continued to use "bitch" as a cuss word, even though, strictly speaking, it just means "adult female dog" and should have applied equally to Goodwin, Cooper, and Achoo, without any negative connotations.

[MusicianDad]

I believe it's a mixture of both. I do know tha "gixie" is a 16th century term for a lower class woman.

"Bitch" also has a long history as an insult too. Especially when used to describe a human female, even if they are a provost's dog.