Orthodox kissing icons - Page 2

[Papanikoli]

Methinks 1 Cor 11:29 wraps it all up.
Regarding kissing icons/germs, see http://www.oca.org/QA.asp?ID=105&SID=3
God bless you!

[lilyka]

Papanikoli - thank you so much for your input.

philia - i am really unconcerned about weather or not people are prepared properly for communion (I mean I care, I hope everyone takes the time to prepare properly according to what they have been led to do ). I mean I wouldn't stand next to that guy in a thunder storm but what he does or doesn't do is not my business one way or another. If he feels ok taking it and Father feels OK giving it to him who am I to judge . . . .And I am sure there are plenty of people who would tell me I have received in an unworthy manner, unprepared. I never feel worthy. I never feel fully prepared. I am never sure where to draw that line. but I have no fear that his sin (or mine) could diminish God in any way.


I guess in the end if I die from venerating icons or receiving the gifts, well, thats not a bad way to go really. Glory to God!

[lilyka]

another thought . . . how exacrtly are you kissing this stuff. I mean our lips barely touch it. its the lightest peck. we aren't licking it. honestly I would be more concerned about catching somethng from the front door, the icon stand that my hands might touch, the communal bathroom, the guy sitting next to me hacking up a lung . . . . but just barely kissing an icon . . . not so much. I mean its just a quick little smootch . . .

I suppose a good solution would be to get to church at the beginning or Orthos so your lips are the first one to touch it. then you don't have to worry and you will be to church on time. bonus!

[philia]

kissing icons

I feel bad for bringing up my germ concerns but have enjoyed so much feedback. I thought I was the only person who wondered about the icon kissing and germs and I am glad I'm not. I worried everyone would be preechy but that was not the case. The communion has never bothered me much but the icon kissing did after last Sunday.
I have honestly seen children put their tongue on the icon. I just do a quick peck type kiss. I think my kids are giving more of a hearty kiss to the cross and what not. I did not get worked up until there was so much Swine Flu news but I think it will hopefully blow over. As far as people being prepared or not for communion that is something I have wondered about . I am always amazed how so many people go up. I am a convert of 10 years and I remember always admiring how serious the Orthodox took communion as far as preparation. I also get annoyed how long communion takes. I know I should rejoice with the hundreds of prepared and devout Orthodox but I am often restless with the kids waiting around. There are two priests giving it to people. I have honestly left and returned clothes at T.J. Maxx three miles down the road and it is still going on when I come back. I guess when I thought about the germs I started thinking about other things. I hope I have not put doubt in anyone's mind about icons. I feel bad for my thoughts about the germs. I have prayed to get over these thoughts for the mere sake of my children. I have said before I don't want them to fear anything about church or witness my hesitations. I will do the kiss the finger thing and not think about the cross and communion.

[lilyka]

holy moly! you must go to a huge church! communion takes all of like 5 minutes at our parish. 7 when a whole lot of people show up. and thats with one preist. hmm yeah, i can see why you are a little more squicked out by the whole icon thing. on any given sunday we have at most 50-100 people and I know 75% of them pretty well.

[philia]

Yes, a huge church

Communion sometimes takes an hour and never less than 45 min. Our Palm Sunday Liturgy starts at 10:30 and it was not over until 1:15. I was one of the fist 10 people in line to kiss the cross. I bet people inthe back did not get out for another 20 + minutes. It is hard to find parking a lot of the time and forget getting a bullitan if you are very late. it looks like some sort of UN convention with so many people from different countries. When the Priest says Christ is Risen it is said in 10 different languages.

[lilyka]

thats mind blowing!

[philia]

Kissing

I have to correct that we do Christ is Risen in seven languages, not 10. Our services are traditional Greek/ English.
My priest will use Russian or Arabic or whatever he knows well enough for memorials and what not .

[theretohere]

I don't know about icons, but I do know with Eucharist when the vessels are precious metals and it's wine (not grape juice) the combination kills germs. My husband is an LCMS pastor and there's some studies on it in our altar books.


I just had to add that DH got a call from the county health department advising him to not allow handshaking and common cup communion at church because of the swine flu. We're still doing both tomorrow.

[philia]

Thanks, that is interesting

Thanks for the info. keep us updated of any updates if you don't mind.
Phila

[lilyka]

Ok Father addressed this in church this morning. He said the basics about not at all concerned about communion. He also said that if you cannot approach the cup without fear then you should refrain from taking communion for a time. better to not take it than to take it with a spirit of fear.

Our resident communicable disease expert (AKA the reader in his spare time he practices medicine) also gave us the official low down on swine flu. basiclly it is no worse than any other kind of flu and other than washing hands and minding our germ manners (use a tissue, cover your mouth) there is nothing we need to do differently.

[philia]

kissing icons

I think the whole swine flu got blown out of proportion. I guess better safe than sorry but I think it scared a lot of people. I feel like we all live in a world now where you have to always be preparing for a disaster or something. I agree totally about what your priest said. Do you all subscribe to The Handmaiden? I was reading an old issue about oil crying icons and it made me feel terrible about being scared for my kids about the kissing. I forgot to renew my subscription a couple of years ago but have had them send me a years worth of journals at a time. I think they are nice and worth every penny. let me know if any other priests addressed this issue.
Philia

[Tradd]

Originally Posted by philia

I think the whole swine flu got blown out of proportion. I guess better safe than sorry but I think it scared a lot of people. I feel like we all live in a world now where you have to always be preparing for a disaster or something. I agree totally about what your priest said. Do you all subscribe to The Handmaiden? I was reading an old issue about oil crying icons and it made me feel terrible about being scared for my kids about the kissing. I forgot to renew my subscription a couple of years ago but have had them send me a years worth of journals at a time. I think they are nice and worth every penny. let me know if any other priests addressed this issue.
Philia

Oh, you mean the weeping icons? We've got one here locally of the Theotokos. I have some of the myrrh-oil she wept, although she's not wept in several years.

Other priests have addressed the issue. A very traditional priest I know from various places online addressed this last week, after I mentioned in a thread about the swine flu situation you not wanting your kids to kiss the icons.

How sad, that one would shy away from a heavenly blessing for fear of earthly suffering.

Nothing within the Church can have a harmful effect on those who with faith approach them. Should some apparent ill befall someone from kissing an icon in Church (such as an illness) then we receive this "misfortune" as well as a gift from God to be used for our spiritual profit.


An Orthodox woman living in Australia shared this story about icons:

Father D. shared with us a story about an Orthodox family who visited him in the last few weeks with an amazing story. This man and his family were victims of the fires that swept Victoria recently. Their home caught fire and they had no time to flee and could not flee the home ... so, this man grabbed an icon from the iconostasis [icon corner in their home] of the Virgin Mary and in the middle of the house he and his family huddled - hugging the icon. The entire house burnt down AROUND THEM and NOTHING happened to him or his family.