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any radical feminists on MDC? - Page 8

post #141 of 281
I was listening to an interview on the radio this morning (from July when the Warped Tour was here) and the DJ said "So, what do you think about all the chick bands on the tour? Do you think that was deliberate? "

"Oh yeah, just luck..."

:

post #142 of 281
subbing...
post #143 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
Is it at all a feminist issue that I cannot get a job because I "dont have job experience" due to staying at home with my children? I am irked. It is a freaking lot of work to raise kids. : I suppose it would apply to a man also....I dunno...
Definitely a feminist issue! I've started listing the work I did as a SAHM as volunteer work.
post #144 of 281
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post #145 of 281
Gald to see this thread is still alive FAK so can't catch-up. Have you seen this:
http://mothersforwomenslib.com/2009/...ist-parenting/
post #146 of 281
hi everyone! I'm pleased to see this thread and hope to join the discussion. gotta go right now though.
post #147 of 281
Thread Starter 
I think something that's kinda dangerous to the well-being of little girls is to negatively judge them for being "too girly". How can one be too much of a girl? If a girl likes stereotypically girl things (such as the color pink and sparkly stuff and being a princess), that's okay. Us making a big deal about it (even if only mentally) is tantamount to feminists claiming sahms set back the movement.

We are allowed to be however we want to be. Even if it falls within the realm of "stereotypically feminine". It's not my job or desire to redefine femininity. I am inherently feminine because I am female. And it's okay, no matter how I represent that.
post #148 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by princesstutu View Post
I think something that's kinda dangerous to the well-being of little girls is to negatively judge them for being "too girly". How can one be too much of a girl? If a girl likes stereotypically girl things (such as the color pink and sparkly stuff and being a princess), that's okay. Us making a big deal about it (even if only mentally) is tantamount to feminists claiming sahms set back the movement.

We are allowed to be however we want to be. Even if it falls within the realm of "stereotypically feminine". It's not my job or desire to redefine femininity. I am inherently feminine because I am female. And it's okay, no matter how I represent that.
ITA. There's only a problem when there is a prescribed, non-negotiable way to be feminine (or masculine for that matter). A girl being forced to wear skirts and pink for no reason other than that she is a girl (like my mom in the 60s) is something completely different from a little girl feeling happy and girly when she wears skirts and pink and therefore making those the center of her wardrobe (me as a child).
post #149 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by princesstutu View Post
I think something that's kinda dangerous to the well-being of little girls is to negatively judge them for being "too girly". How can one be too much of a girl? If a girl likes stereotypically girl things (such as the color pink and sparkly stuff and being a princess), that's okay. Us making a big deal about it (even if only mentally) is tantamount to feminists claiming sahms set back the movement.

We are allowed to be however we want to be. Even if it falls within the realm of "stereotypically feminine". It's not my job or desire to redefine femininity. I am inherently feminine because I am female. And it's okay, no matter how I represent that.
I agree. But I also think it's often difficult in this society to know when behavior or preferences are forced on girls/sahm/us because of gender stereotypes and societal expectations. but you're absolutely right, shaving my legs or wearing nail polish does not make me any less feminist in my opinion.
post #150 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by princesstutu View Post
I think something that's kinda dangerous to the well-being of little girls is to negatively judge them for being "too girly". How can one be too much of a girl? If a girl likes stereotypically girl things (such as the color pink and sparkly stuff and being a princess), that's okay. Us making a big deal about it (even if only mentally) is tantamount to feminists claiming sahms set back the movement.

We are allowed to be however we want to be. Even if it falls within the realm of "stereotypically feminine". It's not my job or desire to redefine femininity. I am inherently feminine because I am female. And it's okay, no matter how I represent that.
Yeah that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceane View Post
I agree. But I also think it's often difficult in this society to know when behavior or preferences are forced on girls/sahm/us because of gender stereotypes and societal expectations. but you're absolutely right, shaving my legs or wearing nail polish does not make me any less feminist in my opinion.
And that too.
post #151 of 281
going along the same lines that it's kinda dangerous to look down on a young girl's behavior for being girly...i think it just opens up a can of worms to call it girly no matter who's doing it.

my grown man husband loves flowers and butterflies. it was his idea to have a brightly colored butterfly garden. my son carries around baby dolls and likes to play dress up with jewelery and my clothing.

if i were to call their actions "girly" i would be saying that somehow their actions were unfitting for boys. when they're not. they are just part of who they are.

with a *hopeful* little girl on the way...i am so happy to be able to pass on the physical knowledge of being a woman to someone. but i recognize that i have to be careful with how i present girl and womanhood in general. We don't have television. So if she is genuinely interested in princess characters, and wearing make up then so be it. I think I can trust that she's not being programmed through someone else's standards. I wouldn't want to take away who she is just to fit my idea of "womanly." My mom has been telling me to carry a purse all my life...if my child decides that she would like to carry a purse then so be it. As long as it wasn't my mom who put her up to it.
post #152 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirp View Post
going along the same lines that it's kinda dangerous to look down on a young girl's behavior for being girly...i think it just opens up a can of worms to call it girly no matter who's doing it.
I agree, of course. Given that this is the language we currently couch these discussions in, I used it. I try to revamp the language, but it's a big job. In conversations with like minds, I tend to let my language guard down a bit.

Thanks for the reminder, though.
post #153 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by princesstutu View Post
I agree, of course. Given that this is the language we currently couch these discussions in, I used it. I try to revamp the language, but it's a big job. In conversations with like minds, I tend to let my language guard down a bit.

Thanks for the reminder, though.
of course!! even i had trouble coming up with another word that was not "girly" but allowed mdc readers to get what we were talking about.

foofoo? lol. i think that's pretty judgmental. i'd prefer someone call my son girly...than foofoo. at least girly doesn't HAVE to be an insult...it just depends on who's saying it and how they mean it.
post #154 of 281

Hi everyone!

I wanted to comment if that's ok. I've been b/c I really think I have a lot to learn on this for many reasons. But this is what I really wanted to say about the word 'girly'... Chirp, I looked for a definition for this word and this all I came up with:
girl⋅ie
  /ˈgɜrli/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [gur-lee] Show IPA
–adjective Informal.
1.featuring nude or scantily clad young women: a girlie show; girlie magazines.
–noun
2.Offensive. a term of address used for a girl or woman.
Also, girly.

Origin:
1940–45; girl + -ie
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.
Cite This Source
|
Link To girly
girl·ie also girl·y (gûr'lē)
adj. Often Offensive

1.Featuring minimally clothed or naked women, typically in pornography: girlie magazines.
2.Weak, timid, or effeminate. Used of men.

So if something is deemed 'girly' it literally means offensive and weak? Wow.
post #155 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~D~ View Post
I wanted to comment if that's ok. I've been b/c I really think I have a lot to learn on this for many reasons. But this is what I really wanted to say about the word 'girly'... Chirp, I looked for a definition for this word and this all I came up with:
girl⋅ie
  /ˈgɜrli/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [gur-lee] Show IPA
–adjective Informal.
1.featuring nude or scantily clad young women: a girlie show; girlie magazines.
–noun
2.Offensive. a term of address used for a girl or woman.
Also, girly.

Origin:
1940–45; girl + -ie
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.
Cite This Source
|
Link To girly
girl·ie also girl·y (gûr'lē)
adj. Often Offensive

1.Featuring minimally clothed or naked women, typically in pornography: girlie magazines.
2.Weak, timid, or effeminate. Used of men.

So if something is deemed 'girly' it literally means offensive and weak? Wow.

somehow i'm not surprised.

dictionaries are made by dictionary publishing companies who send out requests for definitions to authors, other publishers, and academics. sometimes they'll ask scientists or experts as the need arises.

those "chosen" few send back their definitions and the publishing companies synthesize them to create 1 defintion, or multiple, if the need arises.

i can't believe of all the people they petitioned for a definition of girly, not one of them took a non-derogatory stance on the word.

although the idea of being scantily clad...i'm wondering if the last people to come up with definitions for girly were in their 50s or 60s (or the last time they petitioned for a definition of girly was in the 50s or 60s) where the context was for "girly magazine."

still can't come up with an appropriate word. and we really shouldn't have to. we can just say, oh my child is interested in butterflies, flowers, trucks, babies, stuffed animals and play kitchens. without adding any emphasis on gender norms.

i'm wondering how you radical mommas have dealt with obvious differences in gender...that you thought wouldn't come up if you didn't foster it. but did anyway.
post #156 of 281
to be included in a dictionary it would also have been a documented historical meaning of the word, right? which doesn't necessarily mean the current publishers deliberately chose it but that it used to have that meaning! I think it's actually good that we know about words and their history and how they are/were embedded in power relations (though that was not mentioned in that dictionary).
I like what you said about simply describing the child's interestes without relating it to gender, chirp!

no children yet, but since my children will be surrounded by all kinds of influences early on, be it relatives, my friends, media... I guess it would be difficult to really pinpoint where gender differences stem from. plus: maybe they are just different traits of character being interpreted by us?
interested to hear what others who've btdt have to add.
post #157 of 281
subbing, and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chirp View Post
i'm wondering how you radical mommas have dealt with obvious differences in gender...that you thought wouldn't come up if you didn't foster it. but did anyway.
My 2.5 yr old (boy) is very interested in "boy" toys like trucks, cars, trains, etc, even though I also have dolls and stuff for him to play with too.. he is naturally drawn to "boy" toys. DH and I haven't fostered it, but he is naturally inclined to like such toys.

I like this thread, I hope it continues
post #158 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirp View Post
i'm wondering how you radical mommas have dealt with obvious differences in gender...that you thought wouldn't come up if you didn't foster it. but did anyway.
My older son is what I (secretly) call naturally sexist. He believes in very rigid gender lines and he came out that way. It's funny, b/c I've had to learn to be less, um, angry when dealing with his views. He's entitled to believe however he wants, but I do encourage him to rethink things. And, I correct any obvious untruths he cares to share with his younger sibs. (It's amazing how imaginative he is. )

So...I've dealt with boys only liking "boy toys" and girls only liking "girl toys" and it really isn't an issue for me. I truly believe in respecting my children and their rights to choose the paths they need in this life. I believe my job is to guide sometimes, but mostly to inform. I've always had all types of toys in my home and the kids like what they like. I'm not going to stress it unless and until I hear kids saying things like, "You can't play with that! That's for boys!"

Then, my radfem comes out. In a much gentler fashion than it does when grown ups say such things.
post #159 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by princesstutu View Post
My older son is what I (secretly) call naturally sexist. He believes in very rigid gender lines and he came out that way.
That makes me very curious! Care to share some examples?

My boy is only 11 months, but I am worried for the future for both my children because the country we are in (Eastern Europe) is patriarchal in the worst sense, and while I don't want to steer my kids' political views, I do have an issue with sexism (and other socially accepted concepts like racism).

Sometimes it is so hard to fight against this, when I know that besides me, this country and its society is all they have ever known, since they have been born here and are growing up here. Sometimes I think about moving .
post #160 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post
That makes me very curious! Care to share some examples?
He mostly just says (or used to say, b/c he really has calmed it down a lot) things like, "That's not for girls. It's a car racing game." Nothing over the top, but he'd never, ever wear purple or pink or anything frilly or anything that could be construed as "for girls". I thought about getting him a "real men wear pink" t-shirt once, but it would have been for my self-amusement. He'd never wear it. He loves to wear black and skulls.

My younger son, however, may say things to his sister like, "That's not for girls!" when he wants her to leave him alone to his video games, but he'll wear "girl" shoes in a second. Purple is one of his favored colors and he doesn't care if it's got Dora on it or whatever.

I think my older son has calmed down a lot b/c I correct him and because his sister (who is 16 months younger than him) shares a lot of his same interests. The only time they separate interest-wise is when it comes to the manga. She loves the "girly" manga as well as the stuff he likes. He won't read her "girly" manga at all.

But, I give him credit. He's come a loooong way. Every facet of life used to be divided into boy vs. girl. At least, it seemed that way to me.
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