any radical feminists on MDC? - Page 11

[oceane]

I'm still here. We are still trying to conceive, but listening to my husband's colleagues and also other people I get really frustrated already about gendering and assumptions. Just last weekend I had to listen to MIL about how men are inherently incapable of caring for a newborn/baby on their own, besides the occasional diaper change of course. Somehow my "that's sexist" didn't register at all. About clothes and colors: I even think twice about buying this blue onesie for our friends because they might not want to dress a girl (should they have one) in blue, even though it's a star trek onesie and the color has a significance. It irritates me that I even consider choosing a different color.

[FarrenSquare]

I'm fairly new to MDC but delighted to see an active community of feminists here. I get really irked by the clothing options for little ones. I'm due in November and chose not to find out the baby's sex just so that we wouldn't start receiving those lovely pink outfits with "PRINCESS" across the chest or the blue outfits covered with footballs and hockey sticks... But unfortunately I think those outfits will be unavoidable once LO arrives. If only there was a way to politely tell family that I'm not interested in that style of clothing!

I'm new to pregnancy and motherhood, but it has always really bothered me that people use the words gender and sex interchangably. Now that I'm pregnant people are constantly asking me - "Do you know the gender?" I find it really difficult not to say something snarky like - No, actually, and we probably won't have even a clue until LO goes through puberty.

Am I the only one who is bothered by this? Should I just let it go?

[princesstutu]

Originally Posted by FarrenSquare

Am I the only one who is bothered by this? Should I just let it go?

Hi and Welcome!

I used to get annoyed by the "is it a boy or girl" question sometimes. Especially when my answer led to a discussion about how my belly shape didn't go with that information.

I've found it's best to just let it go. Educate when you feel it's appropriate, if you want, but this type of issue can become bigger than it needs to be if we let it. People are people, after all. We can't save the world! (That's what they say, anyway. ) The way I came to look at it is like this: people just want to be connected to others and they will find the most ridiculous ways to do it, sometimes. It's natural for people to want to bond with a pregnant woman because she is introducing the next member of the group. Unfortunately, we live in a dysfunctional society and many (most?) of us say and do things that represent that fact.

Plus, people really are curious about life and pregnant women are mystery on two legs. It's such a magical time, I think most people can't resist trying to become a part of it. Even in the lamest ways. I like to think of it as the world showing me a bit of love and attention.

But, then, I tend to be a sappy sort of feminist most of the time.

[FarrenSquare]

Originally Posted by oceane

Somehow my "that's sexist" didn't register at all.

I have found that "Sexist" as a term is fully and completely ignored these days I was out with a friend and remarking about a mutual friend who has been sliding down a slippery slope lately (taking too many drugs and becoming very selfish) and has been saying very "Sexist" things - and she remarked that "sexist" is outdated and that nobody even considers it anymore. She said people are people and boys are boys which had me fuming! but I bit my tongue and changed the subject. She's not the type to be receptive to that kind of conversation

I've started to use the term "genderize" instead, and find it gets more attention because people don't immediately understand it and I can then clarify what I mean.

Thanks for the welcome, princesstutu, I can be a pretty sappy feminist too - and I really like the way you said that pregnant women are a mystery on two legs. That put an interesting spin on my perspective. I'm slowly back-reading this thread while I'm supposed to be at work and I am seriously impressed with the amount of smart women and opinions found within! I'm particularly curious about your anarcho-feminist perspective, I've had a few friends/roommates who have held that perspective before, as well!

[St. Margaret]

Originally Posted by FarrenSquare

I'm fairly new to MDC but delighted to see an active community of feminists here. I get really irked by the clothing options for little ones. I'm due in November and chose not to find out the baby's sex just so that we wouldn't start receiving those lovely pink outfits with "PRINCESS" across the chest or the blue outfits covered with footballs and hockey sticks... But unfortunately I think those outfits will be unavoidable once LO arrives. If only there was a way to politely tell family that I'm not interested in that style of clothing!

I'm new to pregnancy and motherhood, but it has always really bothered me that people use the words gender and sex interchangably. Now that I'm pregnant people are constantly asking me - "Do you know the gender?" I find it really difficult not to say something snarky like - No, actually, and we probably won't have even a clue until LO goes through puberty.

Am I the only one who is bothered by this? Should I just let it go?

These two things bother DH even more than me! Princess was a banned word in our house until DD discovered it on her own, from talking to other adults mostly, after 3yo, and even then it's very limited, we encourage empowered princess images, not passive, etc. But we just had to shop around a bit to avoid it on clothes, and people were good about getting girly but not princess stuff-- and the couple things we got, we donated or exchanged easily. Now we're faced with the challenge of having a boy and avoiding overly stereotypical boy stuff. We have a lot of good GN clothes from DD, so that's nice... but we DID get gifted a lot of pink or lacy stuff, and while we're using some of the less over the top girly stuff, especially for PJs, DH and I talked about not wanting people always assuming DS is a girl and having to talk about it every time we go out... but we both hate that it's such a thing in the first place--- clothes are clothes! And finding things that aren't just SPORTS! TRUCKS! I'M TOUGH! is hard, too.

The gender/sex thing we just correct like for a toddler-- we restate it using the correct term. "Did you find out the gender?" "Yes, we did find out the sex!"

[princesstutu]

Originally Posted by FarrenSquare

I'm particularly curious about your anarcho-feminist perspective, I've had a few friends/roommates who have held that perspective before, as well!

I'm big on autonomy and creating a life/world where we are truly free. I started along this path as a socialist and I still believe socialists and anarchists need to work together to co-create a more just, free world (esp. as capitalists go wonkier and wonkier), but I think anarchy is the logical result of socialism. I get into debates about this with communists and socialists, but really...I think that communism and socialism models simply aim to create a different group-power dynamic which will result in the same, basic problems we have now, when it comes to how people are encouraged to interact. Communism claims to want to do away with a class structure, but that's not possible with communism b/c the very foundation of communism is a class structure. I think the only real way to get rid of class and oppressive systems like it is to aim for true autonomy. There are so many things we need to work on, true, to make that happen, but so what? We've got time.

One thing that drives me crazy in many discussions is how people want to overthrow current oppressors using the same mentality of those oppressors. If you think the same as the folks you're overthrowing, you will create the same problems. I think that feminism and anarchy go hand-in-hand because they both address issues of self-power and self-governance. I define me--that's my feminism and my anarchy.

The older I get and the more politically involved I become in my community (and right now, I'm pretty involved), the more of an anarchist I become. If that's possible.

Originally Posted by St. Margaret

The gender/sex thing we just correct like for a toddler-- we restate it using the correct term. "Did you find out the gender?" "Yes, we did find out the sex!"

I'd like to add that y'all are hanging around some academics or something, eh? My folks just keep to "boy" and "girl". We don't have to have gender vs sex clarifications.

[nolonger]

FarrenSquare, you're definitely not the only one; I hate those clothes so much that I wound up teaching myself to sew so that ds wouldn't have to wear them. Babies really aren't that hard to sew for and they don't care if you make mistakes. ds pretty much wore only infant gowns as an infant and now he wears elastic waist pants and simple knit shirts. We have a washer and dryer, so it's not that big a deal to have quality rather than quantity.

You could also take a peek on Etsy if you're not the crafty type. There are a lot more options there than the mass marketed corporate sweatshop made products scene.

If your family refuses to listen, there is NOTHING wrong with taking the Princess/Prince crap to the consignment store to get a few $$$ for fabric you love.

I get asked if ds is a boy or a girl a lot. He's 2 1/2 and fairly androgynous. If they assume he's a girl, I try to continue the conversation as long as possible without "correcting" them or using a pronoun, but if it goes on long enough that i can't mumble over the "Yes, he sure does have very beautiful eyes and I wish I'd cornrowed his hair myself, but I'm not that good at it yet so it was worth the money to have it done at the shop on the plaza." without them noticing their mistake, I wind up feeling too sorry for their embarrassment to say anything snarky.

If there's no conversation or buildup to the question, "Is that a boy or a girl?", though, I have no problems whatsoever with replying "Yes."

[princesstutu]

noordinaryspider, I had noticed that lately I have no desire to correct ppl when they make a pronoun mistake, but I'd been pondering the "niceness" of that. I mean, I really don't care if ppl refer to dd as her or him, but I'm not trying to seem like an ass, either, by allowing someone to be "wrong" and then get embarrassed.

What do ppl think about that issue? Is it disrespectful not to correct ppl? A part of me doesn't care but a part of me isn't trying to seem callous or anything, either.

Sewing is also great b/c we don't buy as much into the capitalist consumer horror show. Knitting, too. I've been thinking about how to buy fabric and yarn that's not resulted from oppression in any way (maybe not 100 doable, but I'm gonna try). Anyone have any links to companies that are fair-trade, cooperatives, etc.?

[MovnMama]

Hi! Sorry I wasn't able to read through all the posts as thoroughly as I would like, but this thread is definitely up my alley! I don't really label myself, because I kind of find it counter-productive (i.e. I spend more time trying to figure out the right "name" for how I feel, rather then just spending energy on a more equal and beautiful world), but most of these ideas jive with me.

I wanted to throw out a few more resources that I have found. One is not as "radical" but it's easy to get involved in the email NGO activism: www.momsrising.org. They also have a book, The Motherhood Manifesto, that details what their positions are, on like, family leave and paternity leave and affordable childcare, etc. Lots of good research foundations, good stats to know for debates with others, etc.

The second book is a *great* read, super easy and fun and not heavy, called My Mother Wears Combat Boots by Jessica Mills. She's a punk rock anarchist who has two daughters and has raised them as non-gender, anarchist as possible (I mean, they were like 2 and 5 when she wrote the book, but hey...) Mills did all these interesting gender experiments where she would dress her daughter a certain way and see how people referred to her baby, etc. Very fun and informative read. http://punkmusic.about.com/od/punkin...thercombat.htm or http://www.amazon.com/Mother-Wears-C.../dp/1904859720

I'll keep a watch on this thread... glad to see you all!

[princesstutu]

Thanks, K! And, welcome. I've heard of moms rising. Thanks for the link cuz I keep forgetting to check them out.

[hildare]

Originally Posted by princesstutu

The older I get and the more politically involved I become in my community (and right now, I'm pretty involved), the more of an anarchist I become. If that's possible.

VERY possible

[habitat]

Edited by habitat - 3/4/11 at 5:47pm

[princesstutu]

I don't personally know of anyone raising an androgynous child. I say go for what you want as long as you remain respectful of what the kid wants, too, and are confortable with yourself so that you don't get seriously angry at folks all the time. I think raising kids in a constant stream of anger is damaging to their sense of well-being. Totally unhealthy for everyone involved.

Good luck! Have fun! I think if more people focused on having fun, we'd see a lot less violence in the world.

[Mama Soltera]

Hello. I don't know what qualifies as a radical feminist. I'm just looking for the feminist mothers thread. I don't think I'm radical, but then a lot of people seem to think being a feminist is radical in general, right? lol

So, I am all about women and equality, though I support *all* people, which absolutely includes everyone on the gender and sexuality spectrum. But I am not a person who believes that everyone is really exactly physically and hormonally the same and that 99% of everything is culture. So, please do tell me if I belong on this thread or not (and I won't be offended if not!) because I would like to find a thread where I can discuss feminist issues with like-minded women.

Thanks!

[princesstutu]

Welcome!

Please share your thoughts and feelings. Feel free! I don't believe I'm here to condemn anyone's definition of feminism. Are you radical? You tell me!

It's also my experience that many people view being a feminist at all as 'radical'. It catches me off-guard sometimes. But, it depends largely on where in the world I am. Now that I live in CA, I've met plenty of male feminists, so feminism is more understood and discussed, even though among women of color (especially black women, I've noticed, since I am what's considered 'black') being a feminist is still viewed as weird. I think, though, that because I am obviously less angry than the black women who view feminism as worthless, I give people pause about the label. In many black cultures, black feminists are caricuturized as simply angry women. Sometimes, they're also ugly. The fact that I am neither causes people to listen a little longer when the subject comes up, although it is still put down at some point because of uncomfortable feelings on one side of the conversation.

I don't believe culture is 99% of things and everyone is the same. Historically, a radical feminist has been one who tends to 'blame' the problems females endure upon the fact that patriarchy exists and shapes our societies and relationships. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but that is my understanding.) I have moved away from the blame game, however I still believe that patriarchy presents challenges that we can meet and overcome.

peace & love

[Mama Soltera]

Well, I do think that need for feminist awareness came into being because of patriarchy and the idea of the "other" (as in not male, not white, not straight, etc.). So, maybe I am radical afterall! lol Thanks for the welcome.

[princesstutu]

This video brought this tribe to mind:

http://vimeo.com/10772672

[catieface]

Hi ladies,

I'm currently pregnant with my second and back on here for the firsttime in about four years!  I am currently a women's studies major and consider myself a radical feminist.  Motherhood actually brought me to feminism about five years ago as I was (and still am!) a HUGE lactivist; through breastfeeding activism, I found feminism.  I was a single mother for 3.5 years, and am not with a wonderful man, who is also a feminist, and we are VERY excited aboutthe birth of our child.  I love to talk the topic of gender identitiy, feminism, and how to raise our children to truly know what equality means and can't wait to talk with all of you!

[Mama Soltera]

First of all, what the hell happened while I was gone? I can hardly make anything out here. Yuck. Anyway, I just needed to vent a little. Is any one else fed up with men who want to take about how anti-male our society is now and about all the double standards, blah, blah, blah. It reminds me of white people talking about how hard it is to deal with racism against whites and how our society is anti-white. What a joke. This just really gets under my skin. Hopefully this message is working. I honestly feel like I'm finding things and writing with a blindfold on with the way this website is now.

[Mama Soltera]

I've been trying to edit my post for five minutes. Hating the new website. Anyway, I meant to write "talk," not take. Sorry.