Not processing calcium well?

[Jimibell]

I've been having vertigo spells for many years (about once a year). I was once told it was "rocks in my ears" by an ENT doc. But I've had 2 pretty severe episodes in the past 2 months. The "rocks" are calcium deposits I believe. Now I remember reading somewhere recently (and I can't remember where) that often people are getting enough calcium but they lack some other nutrient (or maybe have heavy metal issues?) and so the calcium does not go where it is supposed to. Rather it ends up going where it shouldn't (kidney stones) and they show up with a calcium deficiency but too much calcium where it shouldn't be. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

I'm speculating that if this is the case with me and my calcium intake has increased a lot since starting TF, now I'm dumping all this calcium into my ears.

Any comments? Or do I sound like a self-diagnosing quack?

[AlbertaJes]

My sister has issues processing calcium. It has affected her bones her whole life, makes it easy for her to break bones doing things that seem like they wouldn't break. She was told to take calcium supplements to help, but essentially any calcium she takes just lodges in her kidneys. She's been to several doctors about it, but at this point all she can do is limit her calcium intake. Even with just regular diet she still ends up being treated for kidney stones every few years.

[JaneS]

Calcium is regulated by vitamins A & D and K2 (Price's X Factor) and also magnesium and phosphorus. Mainstream medicine recommending just calcium to solve bone and teeth problems is moronic. Jes in Canada, it's possible your sister is seriously vitamin D deficient?

I would concentrate on high vitamin cod liver oil and butter oil (or lots of grassfed dairy fat, now is the time to stock up on fats from cows eating fast growing grass and thus high amounts of K2 in butter/cream/cheese).

For magnesium: nuts, beans, whole grains and bone broths. Those foods have phosphorus too plus dairy and meats, esp. organ meats and shellfish.

[JaneS]

Also, one thing about taking high vitamin cod liver oil that has been mentioned is that it can cause a K2 deficiency if not enough K2 is eaten. My son collects calculus on his teeth and I suspect this is his problem since he was dairy free off and on but still kept with the CLO. I'll tell you in a few months of high K2 if I hit on the solution.

[tanyalynn]

My son also had a tartar issue when we started CLO which went away when I added in a separate K2 supp (we use Thorne's K2). OP, it sounds like several things could be involved. In general, people need about half as much mag as calcium, but many, many (most) of us have long-term magnesium deficiencies, and consuming as much or more magnesium than calcium for a while may be needed to correct this. Phosphorus--easy to have enough when you drink soda, but once you cut that out (if you ever drank it, I mean, not that I think you're chugging it all day now) then it's more important to pay attention to (which is why most nutrition books/discussions don't talk about it). A blood test for D? May be useful, not so easy to test K2.

[Jimibell]

hi thanks!

I have been tested for D and I'm good. My magnesium was OK too.

hmmmmmm...

I do take CLO daily but I slacked off on the BO after quitting gluten, can't figure out how to eat it. Also, we're running low so I was giving it to my dd for her cavities. I will get back on it after my exclusive milk diet which I start on Monday (fasting today and tomorrow). Very interesting about the K2 though, thanks for that info.

I tried putting BO on a piece of cheese but I had to really grin and bear it and I'm not a fan of that type of eating.....

[Jimibell]

no ideas on the cadmium? I know I'm high in that, unfortunately.....I hope the milk detox helps with that...

[JaneS]

:
Phosphoric acid in soda is different (and highly damaging) than the dietary mineral phosphorus, which is good for our teeth... ?

If the combo of our fabulous Amish grassfed dairy and eggs plus HVBO don't work for the extra K2, I'll try the Thorne! It's so hard for me to go non-TF or maybe I'm just stubborn.

[JaneS]

We just eat the butter oil straight from fridge on a spoon. It's palatable this way but not if you leave it out IMO (can store at room temp or fridge but not back and forth).

Will reading your blog with interest Jimibell!

[tanyalynn]

Wow, my communication skills have gone downhill! I wasn't arguing that soda is in any way compatible with a healthy diet, but I think the reason no one talks about phosphorus is the phosphoric acid. I think we have some of the phosphorus in that available for us, yes? Not that the nutrient-depleting aspects of soda outweigh that, but compared to other minerals, it's usually not the biggie.

And hey, you've had good results with _real_ food, I just feel like I need to prioritize my thinking and what I can actually get done for all four of us.

Jimibell, what cadmium? I don't see it mentioned anywhere...?

[Jimibell]

sorry, I didn't mention the cadmium in the first post.

I got a hair analysis and I had abnormally
high: barium, nickel, thallium, cadmium, uranium, calcium, magnesium, strontium and zinc (cadmium barium and uranium were especially high)

low: selenium, sodium

I know these hair tests are not that reliable because they only represent what is in your hair but.......

I thought I had read in a recent Wise Traditions article that excessive copper could effect cadmium retention and hence effect calcium absorption but I can't find that issue.....not quite sure if that's what it said....

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Wow, my communication skills have gone downhill! I wasn't arguing that soda is in any way compatible with a healthy diet, but I think the reason no one talks about phosphorus is the phosphoric acid. I think we have some of the phosphorus in that available for us, yes? Not that the nutrient-depleting aspects of soda outweigh that, but compared to other minerals, it's usually not the biggie.

And hey, you've had good results with _real_ food, I just feel like I need to prioritize my thinking and what I can actually get done for all four of us.

Whaaa? Soda supplies phosphorus? Girl, are you gettin' too much sun?

Phosphoric acid in soda shifts the acid-alkaline balance of the gastrointestinal system to acidic and causes inflammation and calcium loss. Drinking soda has been shown to lead to bone loss. We need phosphorus the mineral that's in real food to join with calcium for our teeth and bones. Dr. Judd's book 'Good Teeth from Birth to Death' states phosphorus is one of the major minerals needed to support teeth. Also Weston Price cites it.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Jimibell

sorry, I didn't mention the cadmium in the first post.

I got a hair analysis and I had abnormally
high: barium, nickel, thallium, cadmium, uranium, calcium, magnesium, strontium and zinc (cadmium barium and uranium were especially high)

low: selenium, sodium

I know these hair tests are not that reliable because they only represent what is in your hair but.......

I thought I had read in a recent Wise Traditions article that excessive copper could effect cadmium retention and hence effect calcium absorption but I can't find that issue.....not quite sure if that's what it said....

Ahh... I'm only familiar with Doctor's Data tests, which have a red band near the high end (and near the low for essential minerals), were all those things above in the red high zone? That seems like an issue that needs addressing. One thing I do know is that mag and zinc being high, unless you've been supplementing a lot for a long time, are more likely to be low. There are nuances with those, I'd need to re-read my book to remember all the details.

If it's a Doctor's Data Hair Elements test, have you applied Cutler's counting rules for mercury, to rule that out? That can skew the regular minerals (cal, mag, selenium, etc) so that they're not as helpful, so it's good to check that out first.

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...435848&page=30

This page has a discussion on that.

[JaneS]

Thinking more about this thread...

I can't remember specifically where I read this, maybe it was Sugar Blues or NT, but high blood sugar also releases a rush of calcium from the bones. Eating lots of sugar and processed grains over time will do this repeatedly and that is how you end up with calcium deposits and weak bones/teeth at the same time. Ring any bells with anyone?

[Jimibell]

I don't know if my test was a "doctor's data" test, it was done by Genova Diagnostics.

Is there any other way to test for heavy metal toxicity? This seems so unreliable and confusing to me (I read part of the thread you referred me to).
I do have amalgam fillings and I lost a lot of weight last year and at the same time began having problems with my feet and hands tingling. I also discovered my Hashimoto's and my dd began having cavities.
I suspected mercury from the fillings and the fact that I lost so much weight (about 30 lbs) and that my dd got it through my breastmilk.

The questions I have are; how do I know for sure and if I do have heavy metal poisoning, how do I get rid of it?

I have been on this raw milk detox diet for 4 days. It's tough! But I was hoping it that it would help cleanse my body of the heavy metals.

But the other thing I don't understand is; if I mobilized that mercury when I lost weight and it exited my body via my breast milk (into my child!) then why would I still have the poisoning.

It is very frustrating all of this.

I'm not a fan of supplements either. I would rather get selenium through Brazil nuts and vit E through something else (not sure what)......

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Jimibell

I don't know if my test was a "doctor's data" test, it was done by Genova Diagnostics.

Let me look up Genova, I think Great Plains testing is identical to Doctor's Data (with reference ranges and minerals tested), I think Genova is different. The company Doctor's Data has more minerals than most of the other companies, I think that's why Cutler used it.

Is there any other way to test for heavy metal toxicity? This seems so unreliable and confusing to me (I read part of the thread you referred me to).
I do have amalgam fillings and I lost a lot of weight last year and at the same time began having problems with my feet and hands tingling. I also discovered my Hashimoto's and my dd began having cavities.
I suspected mercury from the fillings and the fact that I lost so much weight (about 30 lbs) and that my dd got it through my breastmilk.

Figuring this stuff out is tricky which is one reason it's not very credible in mainstream medicine. Part of it, and this was more helpful for me, was looking at my personal health history (timing of health problems and the progression) and my family health history, and reading on iaomt.org, an anti-amalgam dental organization, they've got studies on mercury on their site. It's not going to be laid out cut-and-dried, but I saw enough similarities to health problems I've had, health problems both my parents have had, and studies looking at mercury toxicity (from lots of sources, some industrial exposure, some amalgams, the poisoning in Minamata Bay in Japan) to realize yeah, this really _is_ my problem.

Other methods--if you had an acute, very very recent exposure, a blood test could help, but many of these things settle out of the body pretty rapidly. This wouldn't help for amalgams.

Some docs like provoked urine testing, you take a large dose of a chelator (usually DMSA) and then they measure how much of various metals you pee out for the next 24 hrs. I don't think it's safe enough, the metals that aren't excreted just re-settle and that hurts and isn't good for your body. Definitely not safe while nursing, since so much is stirred up (but it doesn't sound like you're nursing anymore).

The questions I have are; how do I know for sure and if I do have heavy metal poisoning, how do I get rid of it?

There are a lot of different approaches to treatment. I think Cutler's done the best job of figuring out a safe way to get this stuff out, to minimize the damage it does as it moves out. Moving too much, too fast, in an uncontrolled way is the biggest risk, in general, that I see, and the second risk is not getting the stuff out at all, just stirring it up and not excreting it. I have a great HCP in Dubuque Iowa if you're anywhere nearby; I'm working with her long-distance.

I have been on this raw milk detox diet for 4 days. It's tough! But I was hoping it that it would help cleanse my body of the heavy metals.

It may/should help at a superficial level, but that's not going to pull it out of your organs or your brain. But if it makes you feel better NOW, then that has value in and of itself. Though I'd want to watch out for nutrition--does raw milk have folate? I really don't know, I'm dairy-free. And some folks would need more magnesium.

But the other thing I don't understand is; if I mobilized that mercury when I lost weight and it exited my body via my breast milk (into my child!) then why would I still have the poisoning.

If you've got one or more heavy metals causing you health problems, it's going to take active work to get it out. Thing is--my son, for example, has a lot lower tolerance to extra mercury because he's already full-up, because he grew in me. So any extra mercury I mobilized while nursing was worse for him, microgram for microgram, than it would've been for most other kids--his body is struggling to deal with what he's already got, extra does NOT help. So it's very possible to both mobilize enough to cause problems for our kids while still not making a significant dent in our body burden of toxins.

FWIW, it's been a year since I got my amalgam fillings replaced with composite and I've been chelating the entire time (traditional approach, the one in the thread, frequent, low-dose DMSA and ALA). I've made a good dent in my metals, but I still have work to do, I can tell I'm not done. And that's with doing things that are actively mobilizing toxins in ways that are absolutely not safe while nursing.

It is very frustrating all of this.

I'm not a fan of supplements either. I would rather get selenium through Brazil nuts and vit E through something else (not sure what)......

I'm not thrilled with all the pills we are all (all four of us) popping. Thing is, these problems are intertwined, toxicity and nutrition. When we encounter a toxin we're ill-equipped to excrete normally (and since my nutrition's never been great, I had fewer defenses than most people to start with), the disruption that toxin causes impairs our ability to detoxify, and the new toxins we're exposed to are excreted at a lower level (so we hold onto more) and the problem snowballs. For me, this process of my nutrition getting more and more messed up, and my toxic load increasing and increasing took two decades (more if we count how I started as a baby, which wasn't great), so I've got deficiencies and imbalances that have taken decades to create. I don't feel that real food, even great real food, is going to be sufficient to get me to where I want to be within a few years. I'd like to be done with this, and be able to focus on eating and living my life in a normal, healthy manner within 3 or 4 years (from when I started, I'm hoping I could be a year away now), and the cost of that is lots of pills. Other people could definitely make a different trade-off.

[PaulaJoAnne]

Sorry, did not read the whole thread, but I understand that if the body is low in Vitamin D, it will not absorb calcium properly.
Paula

[Jimibell]

I had Vit D tested as well, that was OK.

Thanks for the input. I'm feeling overwhelmed. I need to take a step back. I tend to over-think things too. But I do want to plan to get my fillings out.

[hummingmom]

Phosphoric acid is good for us. As Weston Price said (in his comments about the supposed dangers of meat and grains as "acid-forming foods") : "It is important that the very foods that are potentially acid have as an important part of the source of that acidity the phosphoric acid content, and an effort to eliminate acidity often means seriously reducing the available phosphorus, an indispensable soft and hard tissue component."

The type that's in cola isn't somehow different and "bad." It's just that cola doesn't contain the right minerals in the right proportions. Holistic dentists and physicians have often used supplemental phosphoric acid -- when indicated -- as part of a regimen to balance calcium and phosphorus levels.

Speaking of holistic dentistry, Harold Hawkins' Applied Nutrition is especially helpful on the subject of calcium and phosphorus metabolism. It contains a lot of information that seems to be ignored by the WAPF folks, for instance: A high-fat, high-grain diet results in greatly increased calcium excretion, to the point where you can be calcium deficient even with a very high intake. I had no idea of this until recently, and it explains a great deal about my own family's health problems. So I've put my kids back on grains (gluten-free only), and have simultaneously reduced their intake of added fats to the levels typical of early 20th century cookbooks. No more oatmeal with tablespoons of pastured butter, or tortillas with gobs of cheese and sour cream. So far, so good.

Will write more later... it's that crazy time of day, children all over the place.

Meanwhile, you might want to check out the recent discussion of Vitamin F in Nutrition and Good Eating.

[Jimibell]

TanyaLopez,

Can you explain what you mean by DMSA and ALA and HCP.