raising boys (children) consciously - Page 2

[beccaboo]

These are such interesting posts!

I hear you, SoccerMom - I just checked my parenting bookshelf and I also have "Between Mothers and Sons," "The Wonder of Boys," and "The Secret Love of Sons," all as yet unread. :

Speaking of truck sightings, my ds#2, 21 months, goes into paroxysms in the back seat chanting "scuba! scuba!" when we see school buses out and about...

It seems to me that an attachment parenting/gentle discipline model should go a long way to help us combat the typical gender stereotypes. Acknowledging and expressing emotions, encouraging nurturing behavior and empathy, really listening to what our kids have to say, modeling and teaching respect and open mindedness - all these things will hopefully help my boys stay emotionally connected and perhaps also avoid rigid gender roles. It also seems, though, that it's easier (or perhaps just more socially acceptable) to nurture these traits when our boys are young. Buying sparkly pink slippers for a two-year old is one thing, but what if your twelve-year old likes them? (OK, that may be too superficial an example...)

I'm going to return to the book I mentioned earlier: "The Courage to Raise Good Men." The authors write quite a bit about the mother-son relationship and how mothers, for both consious and unconscious reasons, often pull away from their sons as they grow older, so as to foster their masculinity and prepare them for adult life. The boys, in return, feel abandoned, shut down emotionally, and the cycle is perpetuated. [I just found a list of reasons the authors give for mother withdrawal, which I find quite interesting - I can type them out later if anybody's interested.] So I think it's important that we look towards the future and consciously stay involved and, well, attached, especially into the turbulent times of adolescence.

To change the subject somewhat, I'll add that I don't really have a hard time finding cute clothes for my boys. I get nice cotton stuff from the sale racks/pages of Gap, Hanna Andersson, Land's End, etc. I dislike sports-themed garb, but we have quite a few items with trains, construction vehicles, etc, since both boys gravitate towards them. They do wear a fair amount of blue and red, but I go out of my way to look for bright colors and when combined they result in really cute outfits (bright green shirt, yellow socks, orange cords was ds#2's ensemble today). Plus ds#1 says his favorite color is "rainbow" so I've gotten several funky striped shirts for him. Oh, and his favorite pair of undies is hot pink!

Another random thought: ds#1 has developed a fascination with bad guys, super heroes, fighting, etc (not to mention his enjoyment of "potty humor" - that may be best left for another post!). He picked up most of those concepts at preschool. I don't think they're necessarily bad, but I do find it fascinating how much these things resonate with him at his particular developmental stage. It's also rather discouraging to see how much he and his classmates self-segregate by sex. To pick up on what pixie wrote: how do we combat gender stereotypes once they hit school? Of course, homeschooling is one answer, but society and the media are relentless, and the messages are clear even to children that are shielded from TV, etc.

My kids are happy that I've been sitting at the computer so long! Must put away the crayons and get them to bed...

[~Jenna~]

Beccaboo, I was just reading about the superhero thing in one of the books I'm reading and the author said that boys like superheros because it lets them feel big and powerful instead of small. It also lets them express justice, fairness, good and evil. So it is totally natural for boys to want to play with superheros. My dh is a very sweet, sensitive man and he *still* loves superheros and comic books.

[eilonwy]

T My niece had a superhero fixation for a while too; she decided that I was a superhero, because "superheros help people who can't help themselves because they don't know how to, and you do that too!" It was too sweet

My little boy is 14 months old, and I am very conscious of gender stereotyping. So is DH; he was a very quiet, sensitive little boy who always felt pressure to be more loud and boisterous than he wanted to be. He's not gay, just a quiet person. His mother was very progressive for the time and place he was raised in. When he was 2 and picked up a dolly that his sister didn't play with, calling it "my baby" and rocking it, his mother thought it was sweet and let him be.

My best friend (a guy) preferred reading alone to sports; he still resents the way his father forced him to learn to shoot and do 'manly' chores when he would have been much happier sitting around with a book. It's not that either of them dislike 'manly' activities, they just wish that they'd been allowed to have quiet peaceful moments the way their sisters were.

Eli's Godmother is all about sports and cars. She's very excited to have three little boys (Eli and her two new nephews) in her life to "share the testosterone" as it were. She can't wait to teach them all to play football and ride horses. She's very feminine, for the most part; gets her nails done, wears a bit of makeup to work, etc, but she's a huge sports fan and loves roughhousing and such. I'm sure that she'd be just as thrilled teaching little girls to play football and ride horses; she's just happy to have little people around to teach things to. :LOL

I'm not worried about adults trying to force gender stereotypes on my son (though strangers do it all the time.. I too hear "oh those eyes are way too pretty for a boy!" I know they're just jealous of his eyelashes.. just like I am! :LOL) but I am worried about my nieces. They are very girly girls, and my older niece has some very strong gender ideas. We're not sure where she got them from; none of the women in her life are particularly feminine, but she has still decided that "Eli is not 'beautiful', he's 'handsome' because he's a boy." and several other such things. My niece is 6 years old and was the only person to object to Eli carrying a pink "my first baby" doll, or to him playing with Barbies or any other "girly" toy. Guess I'll have to work on her!

It also really bothers me that for some reason you're not allowed to kiss a little boy in public. For crying out loud, he's a baby! Again, it's strangers who get in my way, not family or close friends. Go figure. :

[mirthfulmum]

Originally posted by beccaboo

I'm going to return to the book I mentioned earlier: "The Courage to Raise Good Men." The authors write quite a bit about the mother-son relationship and how mothers, for both consious and unconscious reasons, often pull away from their sons as they grow older, so as to foster their masculinity and prepare them for adult life. The boys, in return, feel abandoned, shut down emotionally, and the cycle is perpetuated. [I just found a list of reasons the authors give for mother withdrawal, which I find quite interesting - I can type them out later if anybody's interested.]

beccaboo, I am interested to know what the reasons were for mothers withdrawing from their sons. I love my son and want to help him to become a confident, happy and emotionally whole person, but sometimes I wonder if I'm being unfair to him by not preparing him for the cruelty that can be inflicted on a boy who has not begun the disensitization so many other boys go through.
I would like to know what internal obstacles I might come up against as DS gets older and begins to really interact with his peers.

And for those of you with sons already in pre-school, daycare, school, is their anything you would have done differently in raising your sons during the toddler years? Have you found success in your goal of having a strong and emotionlly healthy boy who blends well into his school?

[Marsupialmom]

I highly recommend the Wonder of Boys by Michael Gurian. I think sometimes we as mom/women we just completely miss understand our boys boyish behavior.

Boys are physcially and psycolagicly different. IMO, this book can help you learn to understand the differences so you can better raise a sensitive guy.

I think the biggest thing I learned from that book is how to better approach the men in my life. That they need time to process things emotionally.

[Dakota's Mom]

We do not buy anything sports related or corporate logo for our son. We do let him wear some cars. Mostly he has animals on his clothes. Lots of hiking themes since that's what DH loves. He wears lots and lots of tye-dye. I want to make him lots of patchies for summer. We have bought dolls for him and he loves to carry his "Cookie" around the house. But he also loves trucks. He plays with them more than anything. Trucks and balls. He also loves the play food that he has at Grandma's house.

We try to teach him a gentle way of living. I just wish I knew how to stop him from hitting. He doesn't mean to hurt but he loves to dive bomb us with both hands landing on our faces. I take his hand and gently rub my face or my arm and say, "Gentle, gentle." But he keeps doing it and laughing his head off.

Kathi

[kimmysue2]

I wanted a boy and got my son.

Small things I do. Tell him ALL the time "I love you". When he crys I never tell him "don't cry" I don't want him to think boys shouldn't cry. I ask him to tell me whats the matter. He is a big hugger and I tell him, you can always give me a hug even when you big.

[megincl]

just wanted to insert a small thanks to everyone who has responded to my original post. i am so inspired by your parenting! the world will definitely be a better place with all these little guys populating it as they grow!

thanks
megin

[pip]

Megin , this is a great thread, and I'm sure everyone who has read it has learned something. Good on you for bringing it up.

I come from a family of girls, and was frankly terrified when I found out I was having a boy, although I knew from day one that this was the case. I have read loads of books like many others here, and at the moment am reading 'The trouble with boys" which goes into how it is so hard for boys growing up today, and why many become so isolated/shut down. It is so sad! Boys are treated harsher from infancy by many people, and when they get together with peers, it can be hard. There is a story about a little boy whose dad parented equally, who went to a playhouse and started to play 'making dinner'. The other children laughed and said, 'daddies don't cook'. This poor little boy said 'mine does' , then walked out and according to his dad never played in the playhouse again. It does make me worry for my son when he gets older.

The book does make a very important point that it is hard for boys as they can't see what dad does all day. He's often absent at some mystical 'work' , whereas girls can easily play out what they see as their future role from watching mum (stereotypes obviously, but more mums are at home!). I think it is really important for dads (or male influences/adult friends etc.) to help their sons and show them that it is important to limit your superior strength and care for, not hurt, others, hence the learning role in play wrestling that boys love.

Fortunately my gorgeous husband cries at the drop of a hat (E.R. is a certain tearjerker for him) so Luka will get to see that men can show their emotions.

Sorry this is so long......just wanted to say thanks again for bringing this up. It is so comforting to know that there are so many boys who are being raised by people carefully considering these issues.

Hooray for our gorgeous baby boys in their purple clothes and flowery diapers (mine is anyway )

[nancy926]

I was sure I was having a boy (no u/s, I just "knew") -- and got my daughter! I grew up playing with boys and have more male friends than female...I think I just figured I'd "have" to have a boy!

It's interesting to read this thread and think about what I'd do differently if she had been a boy...not too much, I don't think. She does wear dresses (go figure - I hate dresses but she doesn't, so far) and I probably would not dress my son in dresses (until he was old enough to ask for them, anyway!) but she also wears sweatshirts with sports themes. She loves cars and trucks, but also loves dolls.

I think it's important to raise both genders to see that they can do anything they want to and don't have to follow some "rules" about what boys or girls can or can't do (cry, wear purple-flowered shirts, play baseball, etc). I agree w/the previous poster that living our lives in this way is important. I have to be careful not to swing too far the other way though! For example, i never learned to cook because I "learned" as a kid that it was a girl thing to do and I didn't want to be a stereotypical "girl". (Luckily DH is an awesome cook and a patient teacher...I'm getting there!)



Nancy

[sugarmoon]

This is a very interesting thread. I admit that it is much easier for me to clearly bend/defy gender stereotypes for a girl than for a boy (eg, girl in blue sports theme outfit vs my boy in a pink flowery thing). Then again, my ds is only 17 mos and does not yet show preference in the clothing store . Once he is able to ask/point whatever and make it clear he wants something, I think I'll be okay w/ it.

I also want to reiterate what some posters have said about not swinging too far in one direction -- some *kids*, boys or girls, are just not into dolls, nurturing play and want to go go go, play rough, play with trucks and guns etc. I think it is really about paying attention to your kid as an individual, and encouraging them to express themselves honestly.

For me, that is likely to be most difficult. Sorting out *my* responses and sublte biases to interests he expresses as he gets older. Right now, he is a baby so anything goes, yk?

hmm, not to ramble, but I'm thinking more about this as I realize how I have handled some things w/ my 11 yo foster son. FI, he wanted a diary. We went to the store and all the kid diarys (w/ locks etc) were very pre-teen girl geared. I admit, I cringed, I balked, I showed him some nice gender neutral blank books. He still wanted the diary. I bought it. I did explain to him that it was something that a lot of kids would think was for girls, and that he might get picked on if he brought it to school. I'm not sure if I think this kind of warning is good/neccessary/appropriate. J, my foster son, has many social skills difficulties and has a hard time fitting in, making and keeping friends (all of which are desperately important to him), so I do feel like I need to point things out to him so that he can make a choice. He did decide that he didn't care, and brought it to school anyway

That does make me wonder what others think about warning kids explicitly about the possibility of getting teased by other kids for crossing the gender boundaries?

I am reminded of a friends little boy, whose favorite color in kindergarten was HOT pink. He had an adorable pair of pink corduroy overalls that he wore *constantly*. Would I warn my son in that type of situation? On one hand, I'd hate for him to get to school and be totally shocked and crushed if someone said something. OTOH, I wouldn't want to convey that *I* thought he shouldn't wear them. My hope would be to be able to prepare the kid for any teasing, and help him plan how to deal. But, then again, is seems like he shouldn't *have* to!

oh, boy, am I rambling!!!

[hergrace]

An extremely sensitive and articulate actor I knew a few years back said something I have never forgotten. When asked how he was able to access so many emotions in his work, he said "I was lucky. As I was growing up, my mother asked me how I felt every night before bed. So, I always knew my own feelings."

I hope I can bring the same sensitivity to raising my son.

One thing I know I will be able to draw on is my own exerience as a child. I never wanted girlie toys and never got to have the boy toys that I wanted. I expect to actually talk to Patrick about that experience. Though I probably won't tell him right away that, to me, the best thing about Barbies was that if you spun their limbs around enough, they came off. ;-)

Dh is very good. When Patrick is upset or angry and vocal about it, dh says "That's right. You tell it how it is.' I love hearing it - it happens to be the same phrase he said to me as I chanted and grunted through labor, but I aso think it is the right sentiment with Patrick.

I have also been trying to make sure that I give some of his stuffed toys girls names.

[wende]

I've got 2 girls and 2 boys. The way that I curb it is to just go with the flow of my children. My oldest girl is a "tomboy" who doesn't like sports. She likes her hip hop dance class and wears mostly sweats. She's into science. I encourage the things that SHE likes and don't push what I like onto her. She does get forced into a dress once a year for Christmas pictures, but even that has been made into a joke recently. My younger dd is all girl. She is called "princess", but she is also very athletic. We encourage her to do the things that she likes. My oldest ds is a very sensitive boy. He likes his baby doll, he likes to dress up in his sisters clothes and wear make-up when the girls are doing play make-up. He has also gained quite a liking to superhero's and army guys. I have a harder time accepting the army stage that he's going through than I do his make-up wearing. My youngest ds is only 7 months, but for the last month, I kid you not, EVERY single stranger who's commented on him, no matter what he's wearing has said "oh, she's so pretty!" and then they ask "umm, it is a girl, right?" When they find out he's a boy, they always appologize profusely as if I'm going to get mad and I just smile and say "It's no problem, he really is very beautiful".

I think that you can't shield your kids from everything in this world, and trying to can cause more damage than good. Instead go with your childs personality and encourage non-gender specific toys along with gender specific toys, both genders. Eventually they will see that they are loved no matter who they are, "all boy", "girly-girl", "queer", or even a little of each.

[spatulagirl]

This is such a great thread! When I found out I was having a boy I read all the books I could to try and get ideas on how I could raise him to not be conscious of gender. I got great ideas and DH and I do our best but even DH drives me crazy sometimes. I am pretty sure it doesn't help that we are surrounded by military (DH is Navy) which often means traditional gender role models. We are even stationed overseas and our host country is probably even worse. I swear any language that requires you to speak your gender makes it hard to fight those gender stereotypes.

Here's a question. I am curious what you would do in this situation. Ds has a friend who has a pink box of dress-up clothes. It is all traditional girl clothes with tutus and capes and sequins and tiaras. He LOVES it. He dresses up all pretty and runs around pretending to be a super hero. I think it's great. Dh thinks it is fine for when we are over there. The parents of DS's friend thinks it is a little weird but we don't care about them. When I told DH that we should get the same dress-up box for DS he balked. DS loves it so much, why shouldn't he have it at home? Any ideas on how I can win DH over? Maybe if I promise to balance it with a traditional boys dress-up trunk?

One thing we are doing is enrolling him in dance next year. It is the only activity for three-year-olds offered. I think he will really like it, he loves physical activity. Already we get funny looks and comments when we mention that we will enroll him if he wants. I want to know when dance only became an activity for boys? One person mentioned to us how it will help DS for his sports later on! What if he doesn't want to play sports? Wht if he just wants to dance?

It is so hard to raise a boy when you are surrounded by people like that!