HELP...my unvaxed son stepped on a nail - Page 2

[DocJenn]

Gitti, I think only 1 or 2 were older (over 50). The rest were in their 20-30's.

Symbi, it worries me that they didn't have an open wound / injury. Makes me concerned that someone with a healthy immune system (or supposedly healthy immune system) could get something like tetanus. Plus, what does this say about the vaccine (I'm assuming most had their tetanus shot series).

[gardenmom]

I thought that giving the vax after the wound is a no-no anyhow?

[umsami]

Originally Posted by DocJenn

I've heard that garlic oil and oregano oils have good antibacterial properties.

And I find it curious that the CDC states 19 people have contracted tetanus in 2007. (Tetanus, I believe, is not a reportable disease....meaning that if you get tetanus, your doc does not have to report it to the health dept). However, in the CDC vaccine information sheet that I must give out to each of my patients, it states 'Tetanus leads to death in about 1 out of 10 cases". I believe (but don't quote me) they are also counting the deaths from tetanus of infants in 3rd world countries. And if you do a little more digging, of the 19 cases in the US, the vast majority of the people didn't know where they contracted it.

Makes ya wonder.....

The CDC info from 1998-2000 is more complete. They say that acute injuries or wounds preceded 73% of all cases... puncture wounds making up half of the cases. Most common was from stepping on a nail. 5% were IV drug users without known wounds...and 11% had chronic wounds. So it seems like it's not like...where did they get tetanus??
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...etanus-508.pdf

It's important to point out that the clostridium tetani bacteria exists in soil, animal feces, etc. throughout the United States and the world. This is not a disease like say smallpox or polio or whatnot that is anywhere near eradicated in the world.

[Tracy]

Originally Posted by serenitii

This is interesting, but not really relevant since you don't know how many people were unvaccinated. In unvaccinated children, I believe there were about 15 cases across an eight year span according to one study I read. Again, though, I'm not sure how many children were unvaccinated. If you look at uptake rates, you can probably get a general idea. Statistically, it appears that there is more of a risk if you are not vaccinated. However, I also believe that it is still rare in either group of individuals.

All that said, a puncture wound does greatly increase your risk. Personally, I'd be worried but I have no idea if I'd request the TIG or not (it is a blood product which carries risk.) We'll probably consider the vaccine around age 5-7 (maybe 7 so we can get the Td) because I'm not sure I want to be in this position. I stepped on a rusty nail when I was a kid too.

Tetanus is a reportable disease (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/summary.html ) I think someone asked about that....

I agree it is rare for both groups of individuals (vaxed and non vaxed).

the 19 cases is not necessarily children. it is just the 19 reported cases out of millions of people and yeah, it does not say kids..but millions and millions of adults are absolutely not current with their Tetanus shots. And in the time to read this thread there were probably 500 people (including kids) who just cut themselves on something yucky...it is happening all the time. And of that there are only 19 cases.

It is hard to say how may children are unvaxed for tetanus... what 100,000? or 200,000...hard to say... but it 19 is not much to speak of.

[Magali]

Originally Posted by gardenmom

I thought that giving the vax after the wound is a no-no anyhow?

At the time of injury the tetanus vax will likely not be of help. Unvaxed people who are at risk for tetanus, should consider TIG.

[mama-mana]

This happened to our 4 year old son last summer. Do look up tetanus so you know what you are looking for. We did a potato poultice when he slept that night to draw out impurities and we treated him about every hour alternating colloidial siver and oregano oil. The wound healed extremely fast and there were no issues.

[sarahwpen]

myself, my hubby and all my kids have stepped on rusty nails and cut ourselves on various yucky stuff around here. we are running a farm here, not a day spa, so things happen, and it is rarely on something sparkly and fresh.

Hubby is the only one who has had a tetanus vax in the past 10 years. He got it when he got cut on something at work and it would have made a pretty big fuss not to, plus i wasn't there to do the arguing.

If it bleeds, thats good. If it is not bleeding much, sometimes i try to pump the wound a little to get it to bleed a little more. then just keep it clean and disinfected. peroxide is not good stuff. my mom sent me into shock one time when i was a kid by pouring that on a pretty deep open wound. water is best first. then whatever herbal or traditional remedy you trust to keep the germs at bay. honey is a good antimicrobial, garlic is good, tea tree oil is good for some things, any herb that is antiseptic like eucalyptus is great. For wounds on the bottom of the foot, you will need a good thick antiseptic salve and a bandage to prevent reinfection. And of course, always keep your common sense on hand. If it looks infected, it probably is, so treat it as an infection.

[monkeybum]

Below is taken mainly from the following websites: Public Health Agency of Canada, (our Federal gov't); Ontario (provincial) Ministry of Health, Statistics Canada (Federal again); British/Canadian/American Medical Journals, and the phamaceutical companies....I try to stick with "just the facts", which speak for themselves. (Sorry it's only Canada, but it will give you an idea of the risk).

Tetanus
•Tetanus is not a contagious disease. It is caused by bacteria spores found in the intestines of animals and in soil contaminated with feces. These spores enter the human body through a puncture wound, laceration or burn. The tetanus bacteria can only survive without oxygen, however if a wound bleeds, the bacteria is exposed to oxygen and cannot survive. This is why tetanus, as an illness, is normally found in the elderly and people with poor circulation, and rarely – if ever – found in children, (who generally have strong blood circulation).
•Tetanus is extremely rare in Canada, and statistically non-existent in children.
•Even in the 1920's and 1930's, where farming, living and working conditions were "ideal" for tetanus, and when medical resources and wound care were very poor, only 40-50 deaths were reported annually in the entire country, (of an estimated population of more than 10,000,000 at that time). That means that in 1930, you had a 0.000005% chance of dying of tetanus.
•There was a rise in tetanus cases in the 1940's, noted as attributable to injuries from WWII and inadequate wound care.
•Over the last 47 years, there have been less than 20 cases reported annually in Canada, with less than 10 cases reported annually over the last 27 years.
•More than half of the cases reported were in people over age 50.
•In the year 2000, there were only 3 cases reported in all of Canada.
•In 2001, 8 cases were reported in Canada; 1 case was aged 30-39; 2 cases were aged 40-59, 5 cases were aged 60+.
•In 2002, one case was reported in Canada; the person was over age 60.
•In 2003, one case was reported in Canada; the person was over age 60.
•In 2004, two cases were reported, one aged 30-39, one aged 60+.
•Not all who contract tetanus will die from it; the death rate from tetanus is 20%.
•Therefore, based on a "worst-case scenario" from data from the last 27 years, statistically, your child has a zero percent chance of dying from tetanus, (IF there were 10 cases of tetanus IN CHILDREN in a given year, out of a current population of 33,043,854; the odds of contracting tetanus are 0.0000003%, and the odds of dying from it are 20% of that = statistically = 0).
•There are no (ZERO) traceable reported cases of tetanus being CONTRACTED in babies or children in Canada, (and no traceable reported cases of a baby or child dying of tetanus in Canada).
•The tetanus vaccine does not guarantee immunity.
•The product monographs published by the manufacturer of common Tetanus vaccines approved for use in Canada, including contraindications, warnings and precautions, can be found here http://www.sanofipasteur.ca/sanofi-p...odeRubrique=72
•Pediacel made by Sanofi Pasteur is the one intended for infants and children: http://www.vaccineshoppecanada.com/s...Pediacel_E.pdf

If he bled, I wouldn't worry, (but would probably keep my eyes open for any sign of tetanus just in case ) Look more for infection...keep it clean.

[momma_c]

i do not think i have seen this mentioned, how about hypercal tincture?
http://www.millstreamgardens.co.nz/s...products_id=22

i will be honest, i looked it up in my book raising a vaccine free child, i think i will have to get some as well to have on hand. tetanus is the only thing that scares me the most about not vaxing, but still not enough to vax. hope all goes well with your lo.

[hpienkos]

Please bear with me here, this may seem silly, but one of the ideas I am catching here is that if a cut happened, ANY kind of cut (small, big, wide, deep)-after bleeding, one can put honey on it and that is better than hyd. peroxide? and then it will heal up on its own? LIke how much of honey and how often? and of course I am talking of a cut that does not require stitches. And then no fear of tetanus after that then?

[WCM]

Originally Posted by hpienkos

Please bear with me here, this may seem silly, but one of the ideas I am catching here is that if a cut happened, ANY kind of cut (small, big, wide, deep)-after bleeding, one can put honey on it and that is better than hyd. peroxide? and then it will heal up on its own? LIke how much of honey and how often? and of course I am talking of a cut that does not require stitches. And then no fear of tetanus after that then?

my limited experience (my son just stepped on a rusty nail last month, freaked me out good!) is that I'd be afraid to put anything on such a wound, esp thick honey. I just wanted it to be aired out as much as possible. I did salt soaks 2-3 times a day, to eep it moist and clean and open, to heal it from the inside out.

[poppan]

I know the OP is long done with this but I wanted to ask why we keep insisting that children almost never get tetanus, it's old people and usually old people with diabetes? Tetanus is the one I'm currently trying to read up on, and I would like to know what I'm missing. (I'm not being sarcastic, I just see this assertion being made over and over again and I know the mamas here generally do not just make stuff up... please point me in the right direction, where can I read about this?)

So far my most informative read was the CCWR tetanus surveillance report for 1998-2000 (that is the most recent one available). It said 12 of the 130 reported cases were in persons less than 20 years old. OK, it is true that most cases were in older persons, and importantly, 15 of 20 deaths were (IIRC) in people over 60. But, 12 of 130 is still almost 10%! That's not "hardly hardly ever" right?

Here's what else I read on the under 20 set:
3 of the 12 were fully vax'd
none died

Also, in case someone else with a rusty nail wound reads this thread in the future... from what I've read, if your child is completely unvax'd, a tetanus shot at the time of injury will not help, they are just trying to catch you while you are at the ER and get you vax'd for the future. The antibodies form too slowly for a vax shot to help. It also takes several shots to get the full intended effect. What does help is TIG or IVIG, both are immunoglobulin blood products that contain tetanus antibodies. If the ER doc is genuinely concerned about tetanus, that's what they would be giving you (and they would still be pushing for the shot, but they would not be pushing for only the shot and no TIG).

[BunnySlippers]

One of the active ingredients of honey IS hydrogen peroxide. So while it would never have occured to me to put that on the wound, I can see where that could be a good idea.
You would need raw honey, and I believe manuka honey is the best.

I can only speak of my experience..I stepped on a rusty nail in an equine manure pile, it went through my shoe into my foot a good distance. I pulled it out, finished my days work and hydrogen peroxided it at home, adn I kept flushing it 2x a day for a few days.
I have had tetanus shots and boosters. I was technically expired by that point, with no intention of getting another shot, so I did not.
i am not sure what I would do if it were me and my daughter in your shoes, it gets trickier then.

I think I would flush it with peroxide, keep it open and put honey on it on the second day. If for any reason I thought she was getting sick from it, I would take her to the DR, and would do as they recommended, which would be a booster. Although, apparently a booster needs a few days to kick in, so that may be pointless.

[WCM]

poppan, good question. When I was worried about my son last month, I kept reading 'it is not a child's concern' about Tetanus. but why? and not just because they have good circulation.

I realise, if they developed a T infection, they could survive it with much hospital intervention. but being hospitalised for a month sounds like a really bad thing to me. besides what would I do with my other (homeschooled) kids, cause I'd be beside the hospital bed 24/7, hospitals are full of infection, mistakes and are just dismal places to stay for a long time. I've never left my kids overnight anywhere, anytime, for almost 10 years now. A T infection would be a really hard thing for us.

So I continue to struggle with this one vax. I've ordered Mendelsohn's book, hopefully he has more concrete info for kids.

[Sileree]

I looked at the CDC's MMWR reports and I found that between 2000-2006 there were 6 cases (0-2 per year) of tetanus in those under 15 years of age.

I don't know if they were vaccinated or not but we know that at least 2-3% of children attending public schools nowadays have religious or philosophical exemptions filed. That would be around 1.5 to 2 million kids per year.

Also just because you are vaccinated doesn't mean you are protected. One study showed 9% of vaccinated children aged 6-11 years lacked protective levels of tetanus antibodies. That's another 2 million kids at least.