A fallible God?

[Calm]

I had a discussion with a friend of mine who recently discovered Christianity in a way she is following. I am Gnostic Christian, so we see the bible into two completely different ways. I asked her some questions and she did her best but I really should be directing them at her pastor, as she said.

One of the answers to my questions was that "God is fallible".

Isn't that against every premise in the bible? Isn't that the very antithesis of what God is? God is God because he is infallible, right? The ol' omniscience factor, omnipotence... and other OMs? I'm sure it was a knee jerk reaction in the face of certain inconsistencies, which only experience can have a hope of answering.

I'm interested in knowing if this is taught in certain circles, or if anyone else sees it that way? I didn't actually ask her if she was taught this, or if it was the her personal way she could consolidate the faulty logic and inconsistencies as we discussed them. I will ask her and report back.

[Liquesce]

Originally Posted by Calm

or if it was the her personal way she could consolidate the faulty logic and inconsistencies as we discussed them. I will ask her and report back.

Now that sounds like a potential minefield as far as conversational starters go.

[Calm]

Probably, both here and with her. But at least most people acknowledge those problems, although I believe many don't and that's ok. We all find a way to deal with such things in our own minds. But a fallible God, now that's a new one!

[TzippityDoulah]

yeah... never heard that one before, myself. but you know... I learn something new every day heh

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by Calm

I had a discussion with a friend of mine who recently discovered Christianity in a way she is following. I am Gnostic Christian, so we see the bible into two completely different ways. I asked her some questions and she did her best but I really should be directing them at her pastor, as she said.

One of the answers to my questions was that "God is fallible".

Isn't that against every premise in the bible? Isn't that the very antithesis of what God is? God is God because he is infallible, right? The ol' omniscience factor, omnipotence... and other OMs? I'm sure it was a knee jerk reaction in the face of certain inconsistencies, which only experience can have a hope of answering.

I'm interested in knowing if this is taught in certain circles, or if anyone else sees it that way? I didn't actually ask her if she was taught this, or if it was the her personal way she could consolidate the faulty logic and inconsistencies as we discussed them. I will ask her and report back.

I don't think any form of mainstream Christianity would accept this. Neither would any form of educated paganism, or any other religion I can think of...

But, I have met people who think, for example, that God changes his mind. They base this on examples in the Bible. This sounds awful, but I tend to think of those people as "simple people" and that is the nature of that understanding about what the Bible said, simple. And a God who changes his mind is clearly fallible. (I once heard a sermon from a priest about how nice it was to have a God who could change his mind.

There is the story where Jusus changes his mind about blessing the non-Jewish woman. But I think it is generally agreed that Jesus gave up some of his ability to know the future during his time on Earth, emptying himself.

[Calm]

Meghan, thanks. I was fairly sure this wasn't generally taught although I'm sure in some circles it is. It must be one of those things we decide to believe to make the rest "fit". I will admit to much preferring a God who could "change his mind" over an overall fallible one.

[laohaire]

Here are some possible theories:

- God didn't "change his mind" so much as the human race changed and he changed the rules to fit us better.

- God always planned to make these changes at a certain point for some reason.

- The Bible was written by people and even if divinely inspired was filtered through the experiences and assumptions of the humans who wrote it down. God didn't change but the people who wrote the Old vs New Testaments were different and saw/wrote things differently.

- God is playing games with us.

Also, seperately, Richard Bach had an interesting perspective: a beautiful sunset is perfect - but always changing.

[genifer]

God is fallible according to whose standards? See, God is God. His nature is to just Be Who He Is. He is always right simply because he is God, its in his nature to be right, and uuum well, to put it simply, lol, he created righteousness, that is VERY simplistic but its to the point. God simply isnt fallible. He doesnt make mistakes. His wisdom is simply higher then ours. I think if he changes his mind, or if it appears to us that he's changed his mind, he always knew he was going to do it, its his mercy in letting us see it all worked out. I mean he could have just had the two best bits, the beginning and the end... bc he knew it all from beginning to end... he just didnt, he let things play out as we see them, He is All knowing. I dont know if its a biblical fact to say this but I personally suspect its for our benefit that he's allowed life as we know it and history to be played out.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by laohaire

Here are some possible theories:

- God didn't "change his mind" so much as the human race changed and he changed the rules to fit us better.

- God always planned to make these changes at a certain point for some reason.

- The Bible was written by people and even if divinely inspired was filtered through the experiences and assumptions of the humans who wrote it down. God didn't change but the people who wrote the Old vs New Testaments were different and saw/wrote things differently.

- God is playing games with us.

Also, separately, Richard Bach had an interesting perspective: a beautiful sunset is perfect - but always changing.

A typical explanation of what is really happening when God seems to change his mind, is that it is actually the people who changed.

So, for example, God says to people, stop being evil or else I will destroy you. They stop being evil, God doesn't destroy them.

Many complexities of this problem also disappear when we remember that God is not temporal.

Richard Bach might be poetic, but his theory isn't theological (nor, I assume is it meant to be.)