Legal Beagle input needed...UPDATE POST 145 - Page 6

[sapphire_chan]

Can the elementary school playground be walled? Some plywood, lots of paint, and some volunteers and there's a nice batch of murals?

Get the kids to ask the driver why he hates kids?


I think what really gets me about this is that, assuming it's the agenda I think it is, positive images would be 100% more effective at getting elementary school kids on their side. All the negative images do is make the kids associate that man with being scared.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by New_Natural_Mom

I thought more about this last night. Could this be classified as hate speech? They couldn't go around with pictures of gay/lesbian couples or black individuals on the truck and have it be protected as free speech...I wonder if it could fall under hate speech?

If what these people are doing legally constitutes “speech,” she probably wouldn’t have a lot of luck taking this route. Some years ago, the Aryan Nations demanded the right to march in a local parade in our area. The ACLU successfully defended them on the grounds of free speech, even though there was little disagreement that the message was hateful. Come to think of it, I wonder what the ACLU would have to say about the OP’s dilemma…

Originally Posted by ccohenou

Political speech, even the ugly and disturbing kind, has a very high level of constitutional protection and anything that affects it is likely to be heavily scrutinized in court. I think that ordinances dealing with repeatedly driving around period, with a totally non-speech-related purpose ie safety or street wear, might be the best option.

I would agree. At the same time, I wonder if this case would be different because it involves images. For example, the city MUST have some sort of prohibition against blantantly pornographic billboards (I mean, beyond the stupid, booby beer commercials). Pornography ranks right up there with violence for “obscenity,” especially the extreme violence that is apparently portrayed in these images.

Theoretica, these days most cities post their codes online. It might help to skim through them and see if you find anything that your city officials may have missed.

[honorelspeth]

maybe you could set up a "donation fund." for each time he drives through the neighborhood, a donation to a specific organization (ahem) will be made in his name. you could put signs up in the neighborhood informing him of the fund, that might be a deterrent? "for each visit, a donation will be made to (organization) in your honor. because of you, we will be able to help many females in need. thank you for your support!"

[ColoradoMama]

My idea may not be feasible at all because it would take a lot of coordination and cooperation, but here goes: Have a phone tree and several volunteers. When someone sees him pull in the neighborhood - pull out in front of him and block his way - temporarily. You know - oh darn, the car just won't start. The phone tree starts - people vacate - go inside - go to the backyard - whatever. Have volunteers with loud speakers to walk through the neighborhood warning that the obscene man is here. The car would mysteriously start and get out of obscene man's way before the police could ever show up. His audience is gone. If he doesn't have an audience, maybe eventually he'll stop coming. Just a though and probably too complicated anyway. Good luck.

I really like honorelspeth's idea.

It really seems like parents of children who have been harmed have a good civil case against this man, but I am not a lawyer.

[michelleklu]

Originally Posted by ColoradoMama

My idea may not be feasible at all because it would take a lot of coordination and cooperation, but here goes: Have a phone tree and several volunteers. When someone sees him pull in the neighborhood - pull out in front of him and block his way - temporarily. You know - oh darn, the car just won't start. The phone tree starts - people vacate - go inside - go to the backyard - whatever. Have volunteers with loud speakers to walk through the neighborhood warning that the obscene man is here. The car would mysteriously start and get out of obscene man's way before the police could ever show up. His audience is gone. If he doesn't have an audience, maybe eventually he'll stop coming. Just a though and probably too complicated anyway. Good luck.

I really like honorelspeth's idea.

It really seems like parents of children who have been harmed have a good civil case against this man, but I am not a lawyer.

Ooh, this sounds really cool. If he knows that he's still having an impact on the town, he'd probably keep doing it? I don't know. He doesn't seem like a very logical person, lol.

[Theoretica]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Can the elementary school playground be walled? Some plywood, lots of paint, and some volunteers and there's a nice batch of murals? Get the kids to ask the driver why he hates kids?

The schools are on raised areas of land, the fence/wall would have to be extraordinarily tall to make any difference. And, he waits for when they are out of school/walking home.

Asking him why he hates kids would send him into a tirade of unimaginable length and detail.

Originally Posted by Turquesa

Come to think of it, I wonder what the ACLU would have to say about the OP’s dilemma…

Theoretica, these days most cities post their codes online. It might help to skim through them and see if you find anything that your city officials may have missed.

The ACLU is reviewing the federal order but otherwise has represented The Driver and His Minions in court.

We're a smaller town, codes aren't online yet. I'll work on getting a copy of them though....there's got to be SOMETHING.

Originally Posted by honorelspeth

maybe you could set up a "donation fund." for each time he drives through the neighborhood, a donation to a specific organization (ahem) will be made in his name. you could put signs up in the neighborhood informing him of the fund, that might be a deterrent? "for each visit, a donation will be made to (organization) in your honor. because of you, we will be able to help many females in need. thank you for your support!"

Can I just say that THIS idea is simply SPECTACULAR?!?!?! I wonder if that could be a whole campaign...see if we could get like minded folks around the country to all donate $1/$5 to their local/national Opposing Viewpoint Organization for every pass he makes? Oh. My. God. that would piss him/them off SO badly to know that driving through....instead of pissing us off and trying to STOP him....that we're just sending the kids inside and counting the funds raised....laughup : Hmmmm. We could do a website or something to keep track of it and invite neighborhoods around the country to participate. Have a fundraising thermometer or something to be sooo excited about it, totally change the energy focus? MWAHAHAHA! I love it!

Originally Posted by ColoradoMama

My idea may not be feasible at all because it would take a lot of coordination and cooperation, but here goes: Have a phone tree and several volunteers. When someone sees him pull in the neighborhood - pull out in front of him and block his way - temporarily. You know - oh darn, the car just won't start. The phone tree starts - people vacate - go inside - go to the backyard - whatever. Have volunteers with loud speakers to walk through the neighborhood warning that the obscene man is here. The car would mysteriously start and get out of obscene man's way before the police could ever show up. His audience is gone. If he doesn't have an audience, maybe eventually he'll stop coming. Just a though and probably too complicated anyway. Good luck.

Yeahhhhhh the police have already said they'd have to issue citations for blocking traffic, even if it 'accidentally' started up and left the area.

Originally Posted by michelleklu

He doesn't seem like a very logical person, lol.

THAT is the understatement of the CENTURY!

[New_Natural_Mom]

Originally Posted by honorelspeth

maybe you could set up a "donation fund." for each time he drives through the neighborhood, a donation to a specific organization (ahem) will be made in his name. you could put signs up in the neighborhood informing him of the fund, that might be a deterrent? "for each visit, a donation will be made to (organization) in your honor. because of you, we will be able to help many females in need. thank you for your support!"

: I LOVE this idea. Sign me up. I already donate to the opposing viewpoint, but I will happily add $ to this cause (b/c I feel it is valuable & important anyway)!

What a positive way to approach the situation.

OP, I would also be willing to donate to a fund set up for legal fees to combat this group. Set the precedent & hopefully they can be stopped everywhere.

[Theoretica]

Awesome!!! Let me work on getting something set up for that and I'll let you know

I'm thinking for the drive by donations, I'll see if we can get a website...I was thinking stopthetruck or something but I'd rather a positive focus to keep the theme consistent

Anywhoo, I'm thinking I could videotape him driving by over and over, then post it on the website and have the sound be a 'kaching' sound with a little balloon that says THANK YOU FOR DONATING $X TO THE __________ CAUSE!!!

I. Would. Die. Laughing.

I still think we need to work on changing the laws, but this is a great way to handle it in the meantime. And I betcha he wouldn't be as interested in coming by if folks had yard signs saying "thanks for helping us donate to the _____ cause!" or some other really clever phrase that we haven't thought of yet

[Mamafreya]

Originally Posted by honorelspeth

maybe you could set up a "donation fund." for each time he drives through the neighborhood, a donation to a specific organization (ahem) will be made in his name. you could put signs up in the neighborhood informing him of the fund, that might be a deterrent? "for each visit, a donation will be made to (organization) in your honor. because of you, we will be able to help many females in need. thank you for your support!"

I Love this idea!!!!

[honorelspeth]

i would also be willing to donate . i know many, many like-minded people that would probably offer a donation as well.

i really hope your neighborhood is able to find a long-term solution. this has got to stop.

[Theoretica]

Ok so help me brainstorm a cool name to do this...

Stop The Truck is catchy but the wrong focus. I mean ITA that this might help stop the truck, but in order for reverse psychology to WORK and all....

[fek&fuzz]

How about www.Thanks[Guy's Name or his org's name].com

or F*ckTheTruck.com

[New_Natural_Mom]

Originally Posted by fek&fuzz

How about www.Thanks[Guy's Name or his org's name].com

or F*ckTheTruck.com

I love option #2, but don't see that as being super positive.

www.lovefromhate.com?

peacefromhate.com

takebackourtown.com

thanksforyourcooperation.com

[sapphire_chan]

You should also put a thing on the website where people can make Paypal donations when they see a truck in their area.

Hmm, the website name does need work, stopthetruck sounds like a protest against emissions.

How about:
KidsAreChildrenToo

[New_Natural_Mom]

Possible text for the website. This was just off the top of my head and not polished in any way. Feel free to use, discard, edit, etc.:

Free speech and freedom of expression was a bedrock ideal upon which America was founded. It is our diversity as a country that is a great strength and also a challenge. There comes a point when free speech crosses a boundary from what the founding fathers intended into malicious, spiteful, vindictive, and violent attacks. As a community, we welcome different ideas when presented in a positive, respectful manner. This is difficult when topics spring from passionate, deep-seeded belief, but we believe that expressing "free speech" in such a way that it presents a violent, offensive, and negative message simply exacerbates underlying tensions and closes off any and all positive, healing, and productive dialog.

In response to the activities of certain groups who thrive on using shocking, angry, violent, and graphic images in such a way that vagrantly and willfully (and intentionally) targets young children we are going to respond in a manner that turns something negative into something positive.

Every time this truck drives up or down our streets, members of a consortium of concerned citizens have committed to donating $5 to ______ in this group's name. At the current rate of traffic this will result in anywhere from $100 - $200 per day! As a community we are grateful that this money will go to women and families in need and make a positive contribution to such an unpleasant situation. Become a member of the consortium today and help support our noble cause.

It isn't right for extremist groups to hide behind slick lawyers and corrupt judges in order to bend the constitution in order to support what amounts to domestic terrorism. We welcome your support.




Respectfully,

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by honorelspeth

maybe you could set up a "donation fund." for each time he drives through the neighborhood, a donation to a specific organization (ahem) will be made in his name. you could put signs up in the neighborhood informing him of the fund, that might be a deterrent? "for each visit, a donation will be made to (organization) in your honor. because of you, we will be able to help many females in need. thank you for your support!"

Our local branch of "Ahem" has outright admitted that the whole pledge-a-protester tactic is not a deterrent. It's more just a cutsey fundraising idea.

And don't forget that not everybody opposing this driver opposes his side of the issue. Not everybody is pro-X, and this could only serve to isolate those who are pro-Y and strongly deplore this tactic, (which, by the way, is also used in by a pro-X organization based in Colorado).

My point is that there's the message itself and then there's the way that its conveyed. The opposition should focus on the latter.

Ever the devil's advocate ,

~T

[flminivanmama]

i'd donate!!

[Theoretica]

Originally Posted by fek&fuzz

How about www.Thanks[Guy's Name or his org's name].com

or F*ckTheTruck.com

I *really* like 'www .thankTheDriver dotcom. His name is REALLY well known in both circles. He's a hero to 'their side' and a pariah to 'the opposition'.

The second one is my absolute favorite though. I mean seriously now...I just want THAT on a t-shirt!!!!

Originally Posted by New_Natural_Mom

Possible text for the website. This was just off the top of my head and not polished in any way. Feel free to use, discard, edit, etc.:

Free speech and freedom of expression was a bedrock ideal upon which America was founded. It is our diversity as a country that is a great strength and also a challenge. There comes a point when free speech crosses a boundary from what the founding fathers intended into malicious, spiteful, vindictive, and violent attacks. As a community, we welcome different ideas when presented in a positive, respectful manner. This is difficult when topics spring from passionate, deep-seeded belief, but we believe that expressing "free speech" in such a way that it presents a violent, offensive, and negative message simply exacerbates underlying tensions and closes off any and all positive, healing, and productive dialog.

In response to the activities of certain groups who thrive on using shocking, angry, violent, and graphic images in such a way that vagrantly and willfully (and intentionally) targets young children we are going to respond in a manner that turns something negative into something positive.

Every time this truck drives up or down our streets, members of a consortium of concerned citizens have committed to donating $5 to ______ in this group's name. At the current rate of traffic this will result in anywhere from $100 - $200 per day! As a community we are grateful that this money will go to women and families in need and make a positive contribution to such an unpleasant situation. Become a member of the consortium today and help support our noble cause.

It isn't right for extremist groups to hide behind slick lawyers and corrupt judges in order to bend the constitution in order to support what amounts to domestic terrorism. We welcome your support.
Respectfully,

Originally Posted by Turquesa

Our local branch of "Ahem" has outright admitted that the whole pledge-a-protester tactic is not a deterrent. It's more just a cutsey fundraising idea.

And don't forget that not everybody opposing this driver opposes his side of the issue. Not everybody is pro-X, and this could only serve to isolate those who are pro-Y and strongly deplore this tactic, (which, by the way, is also used in by a pro-X organization based in Colorado).

My point is that there's the message itself and then there's the way that its conveyed. The opposition should focus on the latter.
~T

Good points, I appreciate the input! Could you PM me some links to any sites or groups that have info about this tactic, from either side?

I've never heard of it being used before, and I'm wondering if it's done on a grander scale if it would work to draw better attention to the issue. I like the idea because it does the one thing they DON"T want. So, even if they don't change the images (which would be the goal anyways) it's at least doing some good somewhere. If they changed to neutral or positive images I'd wager most folks wouldn't bat an eye.

Plus it's hard to win the public's approval when you are doing something hateful and scary, and the opposition is turning it into something constructive and positive.

Hmmmm...thanks for the devil's advocate perspective. How appropriate a term too LOLOLOL

[IceyTheBatmom]

Personally, at this point, I probably would have resorted to taking the law into my own hands, so kudos to you and your neighborhood for being so patient.

I read the whole thread, and at first, seriously, I thought we were talking about a certain animal rights group that's been known to target children with some really terrible, traumatizing 'comics' and the like. Maybe you could look into what's been done to stop them, and go off of it?

While I did see someone saying sue the police, I was thinking maybe picket the police at the station? A few big signs reading "To protect and to serve... FAIL!" (Sorry, been on failblog too much lately, hehe) may bring the reporters in.

For a domain/name for the donation idea, I agree that Stop the Truck is too out there, but maybe 'Stop the Trauma?'

[ColoradoMama]

Originally Posted by IceyTheBatmom

For a domain/name for the donation idea, I agree that Stop the Truck is too out there, but maybe 'Stop the Trauma?'

or "Save the children?"