Dating Thread for May, if you please? - Page 5

[sugarmoon]

Originally Posted by Butterflymom

I totally see your point, coyote'smama.... I mean, after a bad relationship, especially, having my home being my own sanctuary, where no other adult that I don't explicitly invite is allowed....that has tons of appeal. It's like getting access to oxygen, finally, after being underwater.

Yup, totally. I have a really hard time imagining how anyone could fit into my house/family/life or how I, with all my kids, could move into any man's world, completely. I just can't picture it. I'm not being self defeating, it just seems sort of ridiculous to even consider!

Originally Posted by Butterflymom

However, cuddling with a man through the night... waking up next to a partner you adore.... is it an actual relationship I long for or an idealized, unrealistic version of a perfect relationship I crave, and I'm doomed for disappointment? I dunno.

I don't know either. That's the story though, that we grew up with, and the one people with the 'happy' marriages tell. Is it really true, for anyone? I don't know, but god, I hope so.

There were times, in my marriage when I felt this way. We took a vacation (ha, the only one ever!) when my oldest two kids were 2 and 4 months old. I remember lying in bed in the little cottage we rented, being in physical contact with everyone in my family, feeling like I had all I really needed, right there in bed with me. So maybe it is possible to find that feeling again?

Originally Posted by Butterflymom

I guess I want real, lasting love. The kind several of us on this thread have. emma_goldman with her perma-smile and hotter-and-hotter-after-8-months relationship gives me hope. I want to stop thinking about Vanishing guy and forget the Smoothies and the Mr. Nice Geeks and the (icky) Gentlemens and the Hottie Supremes out there. It's not that casual sex is bad if there's no other options, .... it's just that quality over quantity wins, hands down, every time. It's been awhile since I've had it where it rocks your body and soul on every level, and I miss that. Plus just the friendship/companionship of someone who finds your sense of humor hilarious and whose company you find able to make any dreary or mundane moment of your life delightful.

I gotta stop spouting this romantic bull$hit. I sound cheesey.

No, you don't sound cheesy. Real love is where it's at. For me, I struggle with wondering if I'll know it when I find it, or will I find it? Will it find me? Do I have to be looking or can I just sit back and wait? And what about the in the meantime guys? If I have an in the meantime thing going on -- Jester is a perfect example of this, he is totally easy to be with, but not likely going to pan out to be my dream or true love, but if I'm "with" him, will I miss the person I shouldn't miss? aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Originally Posted by Butterflymom

Is it possible that those of us who are not feeling like jumping into a relationship just mean we are not willing to comprimise and make sacrifices for a relationship if it's not really the RIGHT guy, but if the guy who really is extremely well suited for us came along, we wouldn't even think of the complications or sacrifices and it would actually seem like every aspect of our lives that he touches is actually improved......? Maybe just the wrong guys are the ones we need to consider ourselves unavailable for....? Am I just thinking WAY too hard about this? There are, after all, real and tangible benefits to being single. But the one that jumps to mind most, for me, is that if the perfect-for-me guy were to come along, I'm available. God I'm pathetic.

No, you're not pathetic. Possibly thinking way to hard, but since I over think *everything* I'm sure I can't tell you! The problem for me is that I'm not sure the guys who make me want to drop everything *are* the right guys. Complications...I'm clearer, lately about his flaws, his fundamental insecurity and relationship issues, secrecy and so on, and the ways that being with him made it hard for me to just totally relax and be me -- the contrast between how I feel with Jester vs with Complications is startling. Complications was exciting, intense, incredible, but I wasn't at ease. yk?

But, I tend to write off things that are easy. I should look at that, I suppose.

Originally Posted by ferra

Gosh...I wonder this all the time. I see all these married people around and I just think..."huh...what is going on there?" Is it worth it? How do you even find it? Obviously I've never been married or even close. I often wonder if I have a clue of what a relationship "should" be...I am often disappointed. I want real lasting love too and it sucks to realize how far off that is for me if it ever happens at all.

I don't know if anyone really knows. I'm pretty skeptical of most peoples relationships, these days. I watched *a lot* of "picture perfect" marriages bust up this past year, and hearing about what was really going on inside those stories has me really questioning the whole dern thing.



And...today I ended up feeling pretty angsty about Jester and the bizarre triangle with our neighbor. I had a lot of other stressful things going on today, and just got to feeling like bagging the whole thing. I left him a message asking him to call me, and it is 9:30 and he hasn't. And of course since we're neighbors, I can see that all his lights are on, and I know he can see mine too. But I did talk to my female neighbor, which helped me feel a bit less angsty. She assure me she is totally fine about it. I'm still not sure I believe her, but at least she isn't mad at me -- she is recognizing that whatever internal conflict she may have, it is hers to deal with.

Still, there is a part of me that thinks I should just walk, keep it easy, yk? Then again, now that I woke the beast...

Blah, blah, I *am* wordy tonight. Oh, here's one more:

I'm thinking, hard, about contacting Complications. Long story short, we'd been 'just friends' since early January. I had coffee with his new girlfriend in late march, and she either misinterperted a lot of what I said or outright lied, went back and told him I said a lot of crap I would have only said if I were some kind of immature psycho trying to sabatoge their relationship...he was pretty testy with me, asked me to clarify with her, told me our communications would be over if I didn't clarify with her, I told him I'd be happy to clarify, could see how she could have misinterperted some of what I'd said, but countered about some of the things that were just out right lies, and told him if he really thought so little of me, then our communications were done. I did clarify with her, he sent me a one line email thanking me for doing so and said "I don't think I have anything more to say about this".

And that's been it. But, damn, I miss him. Ironically, right before it all blew up, he had been amazingly supportive and wonderful when I was dealing with a physical assault, state police at my house, a restraining order against my ex, etc etc.

We also had always had the kind of relationship where we constantly called each other out on all the hard stuff.

So what do you gals think? Contact him, or leave it alone? We also live in neighboring towns. I don't know when I'll run into him next, but it will happen, and we have some social overlaps in other ways as well, and I loathe for there to be weirdness, or some sense of unfinished business. Plus, it just plain peeves me off to have not had a chance to be heard out, yk?

oooooooooooookay. I'll shut up now. I wish I could have y'all over for a girls night so we could chatter!:

[Seie]

I cant keep up here so wont pretend I can Its great to see the thread so active again - it was laying low for a few weeks there!
Just wanted to add my 2 cents on the whole "is true love possible" - Yes - I believe it is possible. But I dont believe it is possible if you keep insisting on your personal wants and needs. I believe true love takes two people who are willing to compromise on other parts of their life. I think rule number one is to love the other person just as s/he is - and that must go both ways. If a person is not someone you can love - flaws and all - it wont be that ever lasting happy relationship. To expect to find the perfect man IMO doesnt make good odds for true everlasting love - cause when it comes to humans there is no such thing as perfect. We all come with flaws - some big - some small. So I believe a lasting loving relationship requires both people to love the other person - flaws and all and it requires both people to put the relationship first. I believe many of us modern people are raised to believe our own wants and needs always come first but I dont think that attitude helps one live in a relationship as being two is ultimately about seeking what is best for the family - not the individual kwim.
It seems that one of the recurrent themes in the dating thread is that we need to look at "what we want" and if a man doesnt provide that - then on to the next. I personally dont think that is how love works. You cant go about love like its a thing you can buy. And if you love someone maybe you cant have it all your way all the time - and maybe you need to shove that list of wants and needs? Sure I believe that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and that is one thing I dont think you should compromise with. If a man doesnt treat you with respect - on to the next!

For instance my BF is a bit of a workaholic. I know that if I persue a life with him I will have to respect that his work is very importent to him and that he will probably always work 60+ hours a week. I dont think that is great, but I actually do love him - workaholic and all so if I want HIM then I will have to respect that that is just who he is - and I have no right to try and change him kwim? Sure I "could" say "not good enough" and move on to the next - but what issue will he have that doesnt meet my list of demands? I guess you could say I believe in love, but I dont believe in the perfect person or the perfect life.

Just my thoughts on the subject..

[DanishMom]

Originally Posted by Seie

I cant keep up here so wont pretend I can Its great to see the thread so active again - it was laying low for a few weeks there!
Just wanted to add my 2 cents on the whole "is true love possible" - Yes - I believe it is possible. But I dont believe it is possible if you keep insisting on your personal wants and needs. I believe true love takes two people who are willing to compromise on other parts of their life. I think rule number one is to love the other person just as s/he is - and that must go both ways. If a person is not someone you can love - flaws and all - it wont be that ever lasting happy relationship. To expect to find the perfect man IMO doesnt make good odds for true everlasting love - cause when it comes to humans there is no such thing as perfect. We all come with flaws - some big - some small. So I believe a lasting loving relationship requires both people to love the other person - flaws and all and it requires both people to put the relationship first. I believe many of us modern people are raised to believe our own wants and needs always come first but I dont think that attitude helps one live in a relationship as being two is ultimately about seeking what is best for the family - not the individual kwim.
It seems that one of the recurrent themes in the dating thread is that we need to look at "what we want" and if a man doesnt provide that - then on to the next. I personally dont think that is how love works. You cant go about love like its a thing you can buy. And if you love someone maybe you cant have it all your way all the time - and maybe you need to shove that list of wants and needs? Sure I believe that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and that is one thing I dont think you should compromise with. If a man doesnt treat you with respect - on to the next!

For instance my BF is a bit of a workaholic. I know that if I persue a life with him I will have to respect that his work is very importent to him and that he will probably always work 60+ hours a week. I dont think that is great, but I actually do love him - workaholic and all so if I want HIM then I will have to respect that that is just who he is - and I have no right to try and change him kwim? Sure I "could" say "not good enough" and move on to the next - but what issue will he have that doesnt meet my list of demands? I guess you could say I believe in love, but I dont believe in the perfect person or the perfect life.

Just my thoughts on the subject..

ITA. Great post Seie. By the way - what is the meaning of your username? I always wonder about that....

[Seie]

Danishmom: Thanks - about my username - it doesnt really mean anything. Its just some mixed letters from my kids names thats all I had another username before, but after I left ex I changed it so he wouldnt be able to easily find me. I guess if he put his mind into it he could, but I honestly dont think he would bother..

[bu's mama]

online dating

ok - so I finally decided to join an online dating place.

Now I feel like an idiot. I haven't been on a date in almost 12 years (holy s*$#). I was never good with the whole dating scene and online is now a whole other dimension.

I need some advice - how do you choose who to respond to? If someone emails you - do you have to send a response back? How long - does the response have to be the same day?

Please help me!

[ferra]

Well don't ask me for dating advice. My current situation was pretty much over as it started.

Our last date was Saturday. I stayed the night but we didn't have intercourse but it was really close. I felt a slight fizzle on the date. I was trying to stay open and optimistic. Of course it was only our 2nd date and my therapist says give someone 3 dates before you decide. I texted him a couple days later offering to bring him some soup cause I knew he caught the illness. I didn't think I was coming on too strong since he had been coming on really strong all week. So time went by and he didn't respond to my text (yes, I hate txt-ing even more now).

This evening I contacted him because I was so sick of wondering if he was going to ever get back to me. He said he is having multiple problems such as illness (he got that from me and now I am glad) and his ex is suicidal. He got really mad about me questioning him about why he didn't text back days ago. I can't say that I am sorry. I understand he has a lot going on. It sounds really intense but I am looking for someone who no matter what the situation would give me the common courtesy of some sort of communication as to what is going on. Obviously we are not on the same level. I obviously am looking for something more serious and he has a lot on his plate right now.

Anyway, I tried to offer some comfort and he said he didn't feel like talking. Well I said that made two of us, more along the lines that I was feeling sad. He responded saying that I am a "nice girl" but he doesn't think its going to work out. Wow, a nice girl...he obviously doesn't know me very well

I am sooooooo glad I didn't sleep with him

Well, my ego and heart are a little bruised but I am glad this resolved before I got too emotionally invested. Now I have dating practice...on to the next!

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by ferra

Well, my ego and heart are a little bruised but I am glad this resolved before I got too emotionally invested. Now I have dating practice...on to the next!

You're exactly right though....better he show his true colors after the second date than after the 5th or 10th when you would have had more time to get attached and start imagining a future with him in it. But this stings, I know, so hugs for you.

I'd like to point this example out as a stellar example of how guys are sometimes going to spazz out and blow you off and "not call" if you sleep with them or if you don't. I had a date two nights ago where there was tons of fun, but then after some hot kissing, I put my foot on the brakes and insisted we wait. This was a second date, by the way. He admitted later that he gave me mental 'points' for not putting out so soon, but he has not called or texted me back yesterday! If I would have put out I would have thought THAT'S why, because he got what he wanted already. Now that I didn't put out I'm wondering if he thinks I'm frigid/low-libido and not a good match for him in that sense? This is so silly to wonder. I think either he's just not that into you (cute movie,by the way) or then he's calling/communicating/booking-the-next-date.

Or maybe I'm being bitchy because he's with his two small children yesterday and for the rest-of-the-week and he's just super busy being a single dad with them and working? Still, a text can take so little time to send......

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by bu's mama

I need some advice - how do you choose who to respond to? If someone emails you - do you have to send a response back? How long - does the response have to be the same day?!

No, of course the response doesn't HAVE to be the same day. Online dating is whatever you make it. If you feel like being proactive and choosing who to contact, and spending some time weeding through profiles, then do it and initiate email contact with those who really interest you. If you feel like weeding through all the people who contact you and responding to those who interest you, do that. You can certainly ignore un-interesting candidates. They won't cry. Just wing it, baby, and have fun!

In my experience, if you have a flattering photo up and your profile is visible, you'll get a veritable mountain of emails that you'll never have time to sift thriough. Putting your profile hidden and only contacting those you want will save time, or just doing the most cursory glance at each person who sends you mail before deleting, and spending most of the time 'scoping' for someone, and choosing the guy, yourself, might work better.

Facebook's "Are You Interested" and "Meet New People" is a crude, rough online dating application, but I think it's effective. You just weed through photos (sometimes blurbs also, usually none) and click 'yes' on those who you might be interested in. If that person also clicks 'yes' on you, then you can initiate contact. It's simplistic but I think it's pretty effective for scoping through a large number of faces to find that one that seems friendly/warm/charming to YOU. I think so, anyway.

Good luck!

[sugarmoon]

Originally Posted by Butterflymom

No, of course the response doesn't HAVE to be the same day. Online dating is whatever you make it. If you feel like being proactive and choosing who to contact, and spending some time weeding through profiles, then do it and initiate email contact with those who really interest you. If you feel like weeding through all the people who contact you and responding to those who interest you, do that. You can certainly ignore un-interesting candidates. They won't cry. Just wing it, baby, and have fun!

Yep, I agree, but also will add, don't be too thin skinned about it. The normal rules of courtesy and manners don't really apply in online dating, at least until there has been an actual person to person exchange.

I had a super bizzarre, funny day yesterday. First, I was in my tiny little general store and Jester's brother came in. I hadn't met him until he stopped by Jester's house when I was there on Sunday. At the store, he came over to me and said "So, Jester got a new car" and I said "Yeah, I heard that". He then said "Jester...He is really impulsive" and I said, again, "Yeah, I heard that too" and smiled and walked away.. At least I make myself laugh. Not sure if that warning was supposed to protect me or Jester but it made me laugh, for sure.

THEN I went into town to deposit a check, and I was driving out from the bank, I noticed a super hot guy walking towards me -- jeans, white t-shirt, sunglasses, scruffy beard, wicked buff.....We locked eyes, and just as I was about to break eye contact, I thought of Butterfly's flirting advice here in this thread, so I didnt' break eye contact, and smiled at him instead and kinda raised my eyebrows at him -- He broke out into a huge smile and I realized...he was .......Complications! Ack! I even drove through the parking lot again to look for his truck (it is pretty distinctive) to make sure I wasn't going crazy, but sure enough, his truck was there...

I mean, COME ON! It is so rare that I see someone who gets my attention like that. And OF COURSE it is him! Just what exactly do you think the universe is trying to tell me with that?

Then later on at home, Scrabble guy called, I hadn't called him back, but when the kids and I were outside after dinner, he stopped by walking his dog, and while we were chatting, Jester drove by and waved.....

Then (I know, it goes on and on!) I got half a dozen emails and winks from my online stuff -- I haven't gotten anything in a long time, so to get a bunch last night, after that day.....:

I don't know. I feel like there is some kind of message in it all, but mostly, it was a pretty fun day, and it made me really happy to see Complications , as pathetic as that probably is. I just feel like there is some kind of long story between us, that is really just still at the beginning. I'm not sure at all how that story will play out, but I think there is more to come. Or maybe it is just wishful thinking. It would reeeeeeeeeally help if he wasn't so damn hot!

Blah, Blah, Blah!

Butterfly, who's the single dad? Someone new?

Ferra, sucks. I'm sorry. Better to find out now though, for sure!

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by sugarmoon

THEN I went into town to deposit a check, and I was driving out from the bank, I noticed a super hot guy walking towards me -- jeans, white t-shirt, sunglasses, scruffy beard, wicked buff.....We locked eyes, and just as I was about to break eye contact, I thought of Butterfly's flirting advice here in this thread, so I didnt' break eye contact, and smiled at him instead and kinda raised my eyebrows at him -- He broke out into a huge smile and I realized...he was .......Complications! Ack! I even drove through the parking lot again to look for his truck (it is pretty distinctive) to make sure I wasn't going crazy, but sure enough, his truck was there...

: : :

I really cackled so loud when I read this, that my neighbors heard. First I was reading along thinking, "awesome, sugarmoon has listened to my advice on putting that vibe out nice and clear for dumbass hottie men to read it, you go girl" and then I read that he was Complications after all and I had this stunned look on my face and started completely dying of hilarity and surprise. That was a good little story there, darling. And a good day, all-in-all, you MILF, you.

If you are imagining that there is a future there between you or not, I dunno. But..... it usually boils down to that cold hard fact that if he isn't pursuing you, he just isn't into you ENOUGH. Not that he's not into you at all, obviously that's not the case between you or between me and Brussels-dork, but just not ENOUGH to make it flippin' work out no matter the obstacles because the chemistry/compatibility/connection is so dang awesome. Hey, those three Cs are really the Holy Grail, aren't they? Can I propose that we add it to our vernacular here on the dating thread? And use it in shorthand, too? It's all about the CCCs baby..... If the CCC is 'on' then you gotta give it your best shot, and hope he doesn't let it slip through his fingers also (or then he's a wimpy, spineless, amoeba). I mean I loved Seie's 'Green Flag'
terminology she added into our dating vernacular, so I think our vocab. around here is due for another update. I propose CCC as part of our private lingo. Who's with me, mamas??? But back to Complications, even if the CCC was 'on' with you guys, if he's not really ready to stand up and stick by your side, does he really have the stick-it-out power that us single moms need for a true partner? Strength and character are a big one. Ooooh, character. A fourth C. I want to add it in. But that's usually the killer one with guys, isn't it? That stick-it-out, stand-by-your-side-when-things-are-tricky type of character. Ugh. Men.

Another one I think we should steal from Dan Savaage and his awesome love advice (SavageLove podcast for free on iTunes every week), is "GGG" which means 'Good, Giving, and Game' but that is pretty strictly to discuss bedroom compatibility and if your partner is really open/communicative/able to work out things so that both people are happy and smiling, which doesn't need so much hashing out here on this thread. Or does it? Would anyone like to step up and dissect their sex life with us here? : Am I the only one who likes juicy girltalk? I'd like to nominate emma_goldman with that stupid smile on her face to be the first one to step up and give a few (not-so-graphic of course) details on why it is that after 8 months things are only getting hotter? What's your guys' secret to keep the flame burning brighter and brighter? Ok, just ignore me, all you I-don't-kiss-and-tell types.

Single dad is new. I won't give him a nickname until I see if it sticks for a third date.

Smoothie I finally texted and asked if we could at least be some sort of friends or something and stay on good terms since we get along quite well and live in the same neighborhood and start to have overlapping friends, etc. He has called me twice at night, the last two nights, while I've been out with other guys so I ignored. Finally he texted and thanked me for my honest email and apologized for being crazy busy and said he wants to talk to me and asked me to call him at my earliest convenience. I called him today but he was still at work and he'll call me later tonight.

[sugarmoon]

Butterfly, I'm so glad I made you laugh. I laughed myself. A LOT! I don't know what I mean by that our story isn't done. I'm not sure we'll ever date again, and hell, I may not even see or talk to him again for a year. But, we were each other's daily support through the worst parts of my divorce, and through his first ever experience of heartbreak (he'd had his heartbroken before we met, I was his first attempt to date after that, which has a lot to do with why we didn't last as daters, and then once we crossed into just friends, she came back to break his heart a little more). I just always felt like we got each other on a very deep level, and I hope we can get some of that back. Honestly, before he totally cut me off, I was really truly enjoying having him as a *friend*. But we'll see.


And yeah, it was a good day. V. good for the ego, if nothing else. Jester and I have put the brakes on a bit, due to my neighbor -- she is insisting to both of us that she is totally fine with us seeing each other, but neither of us totally believes her -- I think she *wants* to be fine with it, yk? Given hte proximity of our houses, it just feels to much in her face, yk? But, she's moving in about 2 weeks, so maybe then it will feel easier? Or maybe he'll realize he really does want to be with her. I don't know, I almost hope he does. She is such a sweet person, and a lot older than me (she's 6 or 7 years older than Jester, who is 17 years older than me!) so I want her to find a happy relationship soon. She totally deserves it.

Butterfly, did you check out Complications on my fb yet? I think you have to look back to early feb to find a pic of him that I commented on, but that will put you in an album with a couple of hot pics of him, plus a bunch of shots of his adorable kiddos...

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by sugarmoon

Butterfly, did you check out Complications on my fb yet? I think you have to look back to early feb to find a pic of him that I commented on, but that will put you in an album with a couple of hot pics of him, plus a bunch of shots of his adorable kiddos...

Ack, I'm a facebook dummy and I don't know how to do that! can you just email the best one or two to my email account so I can see what all your fuss is about?

[ferra]

Originally Posted by Butterflymom

:
Or maybe I'm being bitchy because he's with his two small children yesterday and for the rest-of-the-week and he's just super busy being a single dad with them and working? Still, a text can take so little time to send......

Wow it sounds like we are dating the same person. Well I guess its past tense for me now. Yeah, I think if he was "into me" he would have text back with at least a polite message saying he was busy. Instead just ignored my offer to bring him soup.

I know it sounds sexist when I say this but here it goes...You can't be nice to men with out them freaking. My hope on this though is that if its meant to be maybe it wont matter.

[sugarmoon]

Originally Posted by ferra

I know it sounds sexist when I say this but here it goes...You can't be nice to men with out them freaking. My hope on this though is that if its meant to be maybe it wont matter.

Ferra, I agree. It sucks. I think it is also a symptom of all the games people play in dating. Like, there has to be some kind of greater motive. It can't just be that you actually are NICE and want to do a nice thing, yk?

Butterfly, I'd love to dish on the super juicy stuff, but I think we'd all get blasted as UAV.

Oh, Oh, I have a great idea. Wanna make a private facebook group for MDC daters? Are y'all on facebook? Then we could talk, talk, talk......

And yep, I like the 4Cs -- Character is a hugely important one! And it's true. He isn't into me ENOUGH. And I may as well get used to it, cause I'm running around with a fairly unstable life situation, even though I, as a person, am insanely stable and grounded, and I have 4! very young kids. So anyone who is into me needs to be WAY into me in order to want to hang around. And ya know, I'm okay with that. The guys online who don't even want to meet after they hear how many kids I have can , I figure that no one is going around *thinking* that they want to hook up with someone who has 4 kids, but someone someday, will be the right person, and the details won't matter.

Anyway. I'm going to go see if I can make a fb group for us!

[sugarmoon]

Okay, peeps, I made us a facebook group. We can upload pics, and dish as juicy as we wanna go....

I made it totally private, which means that to even see that it exists, you have to be a member.

PM me if you are on facebook and want me to invite you!

[guestmama9944]

Can you join the fb group even if you're not quite divorced yet, no where near ready to date, and just creepily living vicariously through the other people on the thread??

Because that's me

[estrella]

Intrigued and confused

Hello everybody. Well, I have only read through the first two pages of this post (I do more reading of posts than writing them, and I am wanting to date, but not actually doing it yet).

The source of intrigue and confusion for me is about "when to sleep with a man." I've always been a little fast in that area in my young dating years. Then I was with my XH for 12 years and we've been divorced since last July. One month to the day after our divorce I slept with a friend/colleague with whom I share(d) amazing chemistry. I couldn't stop myself, but it's been 9 mos and nothing has panned out except the recognition of our physical attraction to each other.

On the one hand, I agree that men should not be held to a different standard than women, and if a man is going to discard you because you sleep with him quickly, then he's not really worth it.

On the other hand, how much does biology really play into this? I mean, on the whole, women are generally the ones left with the consequences (yes, there are preventative measures, but they're still not 100% safe--read the single mom's forum, which I'm sure you all have). I've always heard that men like the chase, and like to place their seeds in many places. Women (according to these accounts) need to be more careful about who is placing seeds in them, and the men are at least unconsciously "aware" of this and use this as a standard of who they deem as acceptable mates.

As a woman, I love my sexuality, and I want to explore and enjoy it. But I got burned by my last encounter of letting the erotic flow go uninhibited. I wonder how/if things might have been different if I hadn't had sex so quickly with my friend. I have essentially lost him as a friend, which I cared more about than having sex with him.

I've been alone for quite some time now. I want to have a sexual relationship with a man that spans more than one or even a few encounters. My confusion is based in "if I make him wait, and he's not the right one, and then I make the next one wait, and he's not the right one, then the next... it could be YEARS before my next encounter!" (that scares me). Relationships take time to build.

I want to stay strong and independent and free from social (read: patriarchal) rules, but I don't want to be having sex with no future (and I DON'T want a near-future without sex). Does that make sense? I have to admit, the book "He's Just Not That Into You" fucked with me a little bit.

Well, I was trolling this to get confidence (I guess you could call it) in trying online dating for the first time. But now I'm really thinking about this whole "when to have sex" thing. I guess my fear is that if I have the opportunity (which of course would only matter if I felt that rare "energy"), then I won't be able to stop myself, I just love it so much.

Well, every situation is different, and I don't even have a situation to speak of right now, except the loss of my friend. I really cared about our friendship more than anything, and that is essentially gone. My therapist told me that men don't look for friendship in women. They look for sex or to "protect" them.

I don't want casual sex, but I also don't want a full-blown relationship right now. What is a woman to do? (I'm getting bored of my vibrator).

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by estrella

I wonder how/if things might have been different if I hadn't had sex so quickly with my friend. I have essentially lost him as a friend, which I cared more about than having sex with him.

....Well, every situation is different, and I don't even have a situation to speak of right now, except the loss of my friend. I really cared about our friendship more than anything, and that is essentially gone.

That's sad. But there has to be some deep flaw with the guy or with the communication between you if the entire relationship was destroyed and obliterated because physical chemistry was acknowledged and consumated. This is 2009, we're all grown-ups, and I don't know why we can't just talk straight with guys and that you couldn't have SAID something like that ("I care about our friendship more than having sex with you, can't we just hang on to that and not let any past or present or future spark of attraction prevent a great friendship?") to him and have him say something honest and intelligible in return to avoid all this guesswork.


As for the HOT BUTTON DISCUSSION TOPIC (when do you sleep with a guy? Does it ruin a potential relationship to rush sex? double standard, anybody?!), I think if it's the right guy who sees you and gets to know you and SEES how there exists some pretty special CCC between you before having sex, whether that's in 2 hours or 2 days or 2 months, then it won't ruin it. But perhaps if he was only in it for the nookie from the get-go and never really bothered looking too closely or deeply at you as a person in the first place, casual sex right away will sort of make him categorize you as a quickie-sex-encounter, the type of which he generally moves on from pretty quickly and on-to-the-next.

Maybe we just need better radars as to whether the guy has really *seen* us and if we feel the CCC then we should look in his eyes and facial expression to see that he's really felt the CCC and then perhaps sex can't ruin it? And if it does, then the fourth C wasn't there.

[emma_goldman]

Another one I think we should steal from Dan Savaage and his awesome love advice (SavageLove podcast for free on iTunes every week), is "GGG" which means 'Good, Giving, and Game' but that is pretty strictly to discuss bedroom compatibility and if your partner is really open/communicative/able to work out things so that both people are happy and smiling, which doesn't need so much hashing out here on this thread. Or does it? Would anyone like to step up and dissect their sex life with us here? Am I the only one who likes juicy girltalk? I'd like to nominate emma_goldman with that stupid smile on her face to be the first one to step up and give a few (not-so-graphic of course) details on why it is that after 8 months things are only getting hotter? What's your guys' secret to keep the flame burning brighter and brighter? Ok, just ignore me, all you I-don't-kiss-and-tell types.

ha! yes, i'm reading EVERY post (and yes, I should be working!)...

This would be fun to respond to! I'll try to find some time...

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by estrella

I don't want casual sex, but I also don't want a full-blown relationship right now. What is a woman to do? (I'm getting bored of my vibrator).

If you for sure don't want a relationship, then just have sex with whom you want, when you want. If you feel there's a risk of feeling like used/discarded meat after sex if the guy never contacts you again, then try to establish something with kinda special guys who also respect you. Let them know, after you get to know them and things move to a point where you'd be ready for sex, that you aren't ready for a full-blown relationship, but you also can't just sleep with a random person who won't ever call, etc.... that you are looking for something a bit on the lighter-side, but not just one-week-then-it's-over-forever, either. Ask if that appeals to the guy you think you'd like that relationship with, to play it by ear without huge expectations or commitments, but lots of juicy sex, and chances are it WILL, and hopefully he lives up to his side of the bargain, respect-wise.

But you're still putting yourself out there, risk-wise, emotionally speaking I mean, because you can't control others' behavior, ultimately, no matter what precautions you take. So try to have a reasonably thick-skin about it, protect yourself with as many precautions and introspection on what your needs are, try to find a compatible partner (or several) and enjoy!

Vibrators DO get boring.