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Mothers of Daughters and Pornography - Page 3

post #41 of 148
Hazelnut, I read through this entire thread and nowhere, NOWHERE, did I see women's concerns dismissed. What I did see was a concern about the First Amendment. Being concerned about the First Amendment does not automatically mean that one dismisses women's concerns. However, as one who has followed the issue of pornography for a very long time, the argument does usually fall into those two camps (generally speaking with exceptions of course): 1) pornography by definition degrades women or 2) pornography is a form of free speech. The people in the porn-degrades-women camp are usually outraged that porn is considered a free speech issue and not an issue of women's rights and safety. To them, porn exploits women's sexuality and is an example of the rampant sexism in our society. The people in the porn-is-a-form-of-free-speech camp believe that consenting adults have a right to view porn if they want. They often suspect that the anti-porn people are really anti-sex people and they don't believe that pornography is automatically exploitative. The argument between these two camps can be extremely heated: one side accuses the other of hating women and one side accuses the other of trying to control peoples' thoughts and actions.

To answer the OP's question, my view hasn't changed since I became a parent.
post #42 of 148
My views have intensified, but not fundamentally changed.
post #43 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
If only women's concerns over porn weren't dismissed in any conversation I've ever seen it come up in, I would perhaps have the capacity to be more patient with it. I did not object to every post in this thread that had no problem with it.
Here's the thing... we all do what best for us in our lives. We all make our own choices and decisions regarding adult behavior and how to hide /or handle it around the children.

There are moms on MDC who smoke pot. Who did so during pregnancy or labor or even just occassionally around the house.

I am horrified. I don't do drugs. Especially not those considered mood altering and/or illegal.

I don't ever want my kids to do drugs.

I do want my kids to see lots of full nudity someday with a loving partner. I hope they are happy and fulfilled in the bedroom part of their lives.

My hubby and I look at porn once in awhile or read the sexy stories online and then we take that sexual energy back to our bedroom. No harm, no foul. The stuff we look at is tasteful and not involving children, animals or s & m.

So no, I never understand how women say "porn ruined my marriage" or "all porn is garbage". As a happily married woman of 22 years to the same loving man... this is just not my issue.
post #44 of 148
I started out an active member of Feminists for Free Expression. Somewhere along the way I 180-ed on that one, on the realization that pornography consumers have absolutely no ability to separate exploitive materials from non-exploitive materials -- that it borders on the impossible to know what was going on on the other side of the camera, or in the minds of those involved, and that I didn't care to actively support the right of that particular economy any more than I did others with an easy and easily hidden ability to cause harm to those involved. (ETA: Linda Marchiano's claims about what was going on during the course of her own porn career really affected my view -- that her story was both plausible and totally undetectable to the viewer really made me re-examine the possibilities when looking at by-all-outward-appearances consensual sex-for-profit. )

Having since had children ... I would say that intensified my discomfort not only with the obscuring nature of the industry but also with how unrestricted access is to extreme or outright illegal materials regarding which I don't want specific knowledge in my own brain, let alone in the minds of my children.

So I've definitely been going more "prude" on the subject on my own over the years, but my opposition took on a public access element once kids were involved ... my son included, not just my daughter.
post #45 of 148
I've become more liberal since I had children (though I was already very liberal before). I work with porn and since becoming a mom, I've also posed for it. I would not object to my daughter (or son) doing the same some day, and I certainly wouldn't object to them looking at the stuff!
post #46 of 148
Yes.

I could "handle" porn before being a mother. Now I'm disgusted.

I used to frequent the female strip clubs pre-baby as well (not the same as porn, along the same lines). We used to party hard every weekend with naked ladies dancing around and on us pre-baby. I've been there one time since being a mother. All I could do was look around and see those women as somebody's daughter. I felt really sad. I'll never go back.
post #47 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayBaby2007 View Post
We used to party hard every weekend with naked ladies dancing around and on us pre-baby. I've been there one time since being a mother. All I could do was look around and see those women as somebody's daughter. I felt really sad. I'll never go back.
See, now even though I don't have problems with all porn, this does make me sad, too. I can't quite pinpoint where my line is, where my "okay/not okay" is, but this is in the not okay realm to me, personally, and always has been. I'm fascinated and trying to figure out where my line is....not that it's pertinent to this thread, but anyway. Interesting.
post #48 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by The4OfUs View Post
See, now even though I don't have problems with all porn, this does make me sad, too. I can't quite pinpoint where my line is, where my "okay/not okay" is, but this is in the not okay realm to me, personally, and always has been.
Can you clarify what you man? What exactly is the 'this' that makes you sad? The strip club or the "this is someone's daughter" thing?
post #49 of 148
I don't have any problem with adults watching most normal run of the mill porn. It's none of my business and really, I just don't care. And what other adults want to get together and do in front of a camera is none of my busness either...except:

Quote:
Of course there are aspects of the business that are really, really bad for women, and there are things produced that make me ill...(snip) In some ways, at least this is out in the open. I do think these industries prey on women who have already been victimized which is really, really unfortunate and I do wish for a day when that fact is less true and fewer (no) women are victimized in the first place.
I don't think emotionally healthy women end up in the porn industry. Of the small handfull of women I know who have ended up stripping or in the fringes of porn, 100% of them have a past with more than a little sexual abuse and a pretty significant percentage has drug problems. When I see porn, mostly I wonder what happened to land those women in that industry.
post #50 of 148
No problem with porn then, no problem with it now. If he wants to watch it when he's older so be it. I hope by that time that I had instilled a deep respect for women (or if I have a girl a deep respect for themselves). I see nothing wrong with plain jane porn in moderation. It can be a turn on for both partners.

As for exploitation/degradation of women: Some porn does that. I'm well aware of that. I'm also aware that there are women like Jenna Jameson and Terra Patrick who love what they do, love the lifestyle, are very well paid for what they do and, in the case of Jenna, run their own empire based on what they do. No, I don't think they are getting taken advantage of.
post #51 of 148
I was conservative Christian before having my girls, and totally bought into the whole idea of pornography as an addiction, and believed what I was taught, that men who look at pornography, even "soft" pornography, would ultimately be dissatidfied with that and with "normal" sex, and would crave more abusive sex, become pedophiles, and so on.

I even helped with a political endeavor for an anti-porn organization: We stood in front of an an adult strip club, handing out cookies and tracts to men who went in. Which caused many of the men to just drive by and not go in. The idea being that we were going to shut the place down. Then I learned it had already been scheduled to shut down, or they were changing location or something, and that this anti-porn organization kept tabs on changes like this, so they could send women to stand out there, and make it look like they were really accomplishing something, and get more financial support for their "work."

After that I never wanted to align myself with the anti-pornography movement, though I still didn't like pornography. And it's just never been a thing of interest, for either me or dh.

However, becoming a mom has led me to make a major theological shift. I am now very liberal, no longer believe in condemnation for others who believe differently, and therefore, as BellinghamCrunchie shared, I no longer see it as such a black-and-white issue. Especially after having some people act like public breastfeeding was "pornographic." It's just scary when certain "authorities" set themselves up as judge and determine, for everyone else, which forms of expression are acceptable and which ones aren't.

I do think all participants need to be consenting adults, and I haven't seen anyone here that didn't think that.

By the way, that early teaching about "male sexual addictions" came back to bite me in the butt when one friend tried to tell me that I shouldn't breastfeed in the church sanctuary, because what if a man with sexual addictions came in off the street, and was so mesmerized -- not by the sight of my breast since he wouldn't see anything, but by the mere knowledge that there was a mouth sucking on a breast -- what if this took all his attention and he missed his chance to hear the gospel???

Those eating babies -- they're just sucking up the souls of those poor sex-addicted men: How could we nursing mamas be so uncaring!??? -- So, yeah, I prefer freedom for everyone, though of course we need to protect our kids (not from breastfeeding -- but from anything that might be harmful to a child).
post #52 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Those eating babies -- they're just sucking up the souls of those poor sex-addicted men: How could we nursing mamas be so uncaring!??? -- So, yeah, I prefer freedom for everyone, though of course we need to protect our kids (not from breastfeeding -- but from anything that might be harmful to a child).
This made me laugh very hard. I grew up in a church that sounds just like that.
post #53 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteNicole View Post
I don't think emotionally healthy women end up in the porn industry. Of the small handfull of women I know who have ended up stripping or in the fringes of porn, 100% of them have a past with more than a little sexual abuse and a pretty significant percentage has drug problems. When I see porn, mostly I wonder what happened to land those women in that industry.
That's a pretty big blanket statement. As I said earlier, I work with porn, and have posed myself . . . and none of the women I've met along the way were abused or addicted (including myself . . . I do sex work in several capacities because the money is good, I can work from home, and I LIKE it).

Sure, some women get into it for the wrong reasons, but it's not a wholly exploitative industry.
post #54 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessy1019 View Post
Sure, some women get into it for the wrong reasons, but it's not a wholly exploitative industry.
Also, as a previous poster pointed out... as a consumer it is difficult to know if there anything exploitative involved in the making of images like this.

Is my t-shirt from Target made by child laborers in some far away place? Maybe and maybe not.
post #55 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaterPrimaePuellae View Post
ETA, it does add a new dimension to think of my 2 yo daughter having to deal with this some day. and I am very happy to have a daughter, because i don't think I would deal with this issue well with a son.
I'm curious to know why you think you would not deal with this issue well with a son.

Mothers of sons have a wonderful opportunity to teach their boys that they are expected to treat all humans with respect and dignity, including girls and women. It's not all about teaching our daughters. The boys have a responsibility, too.
post #56 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norasmomma View Post
Not much. Porn has it's place for consenting adults. That has nothing to do with my being a parent or not.
And I'll add that I'm fine with porn. Not all of it I find appealing to me, though.
post #57 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post
I'm curious to know why you think you would not deal with this issue well with a son.

Mothers of sons have a wonderful opportunity to teach their boys that they are expected to treat all humans with respect and dignity, including girls and women. It's not all about teaching our daughters. The boys have a responsibility, too.
Bolding mine. YES, they do, and I hope I can teach my sons how and WHY they are responsible too. Not all boys grow up to be sex-obsessed pigs, and I sure hope mine don't!
post #58 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteNicole View Post
I don't think emotionally healthy women end up in the porn industry. Of the small handfull of women I know who have ended up stripping or in the fringes of porn, 100% of them have a past with more than a little sexual abuse and a pretty significant percentage has drug problems. When I see porn, mostly I wonder what happened to land those women in that industry.
Well, allow me to shift the percentage in whatever small way I can. I stripped for several years and HAND TO GOD was never sexually abused. Not as a child, not as an adult.

I do not doubt that many women who "end up" (I love how often that phrase gets used when talking about sex work - surely it's never a legitimate choice made by a healthy adult, just the inevitable nadir of a tragic and tawdry downward spiral, right?) in sex work have indeed been sexually abused, though I doubt the number is all that much higher than the number of women who have been sexually abused period.

I don't mean to lash out at your post - I appreciate the overall intention there, but I really do guarantee you that for as many drug-addicted rape victims you find in the dressing room, you'll find as many (yes really!) women putting themselves through school and single (and also happily married) moms.
post #59 of 148
No change in views as of yet - have one son and a daughter on the way. Enjoy porn that suits my tastes - forgo porn that doesn't.

I don't think that porn itself objectifies women - any more than men anyway. Sexuality is a part of being human - not part of being an object... if that makes any sense? I don't know if I said that right. Maybe I don't fully understand what it means to "objectify women?" I have a very, very literal take on words...

I don't assume that the people doing porn don't really want to be. As far as I know - and I admit I know next to nothing about the industry - the people have made a choice to participate and are being paid?
post #60 of 148
I think my focus on the issue has changed somewhat. I do believe in free speech, but also want to make sure children are protected from inappropriate material. But, then, what is seen as inappropriate and pornographic can be so distorted in our culture. I don't mind nudity. And the Puritans who get all appalled about bf or birth type photos or nude art are really noxious to me. I'm actually much more incensed by the airbrushed, unrealistic pictures plastered on the glossy covers of the fashion and gossip magazines.

But, on the other hand, porn can be as harmful to men than it is to women when it becomes an addiction. I want to educate my boys about pornography the way I would about any potentially addicting substance that may not be too harmful in moderation for adults (like alcohol and video games), but can be very damaging for young kids and when used to excess. I think it is much more difficult to protect our kids these days, when porn sights are so easily accessible. Boys used to have to go through some effort to get some playboy mags to hide under the mattress... now they can get a host of lurid images and create syber selves to enact scenarios by simply clicking a few buttons. It's scary.
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