Not vaxing and not breastfeeding?

[amyandelle]

To make a very long story short I may have to stop nursing Azaliah who is 3 weeks old. It is not a decision I take lightly seeing that I nursed my other girls until 2 1/2 and almost 2. I don't want to get into the issue right now because we have not reached the point where a decision has to be made quickly (it's due to allergies and the elim diet not providing results).

Here is my main concern. I do not feel comfortable not vaxing if I am not breastfeeding. However I do not feel comfortable vaxing AT ALL.

How much of a risk would I be taking? Would you be comfortable not vaxing if you didn't breastfeed?

I am praying that we don't get to the point where I need to wean but in case that happens I want be as educated and as comfortable with the decision as I can be.

Thanks!
Amy

[an_domhan]

Originally Posted by amyandelle

Would you be comfortable not vaxing if you didn't breastfeed?

It would depend on what I fed the child. If it were formula, maybe not. I'd still go delayed if I were to vaccinate at all.

I am praying that we don't get to the point where I need to wean but in case that happens I want be as educated and as comfortable with the decision as I can be.
Thanks!
Amy

Are you still going to provide the child with BM? Either your own, or donor milk? This is pretty crucial to your decision, IMO.

[Marnica]

Sorry that you may have to stop . I hope it doesn't come to that. As for vaxing and BF, I would argue that if one is not BF than there is MORE of a reason not to vax since vaxing taxes the immune system, and formula feeding can be taxing on the immune system as well. Vaxing would just add to the the burden IMO.

BF does confer immunity for a few months for some VAD, but if I was not BF the ONLY vax I would consider would be the HIB. I would focus on supporting and developing his immune system.

[an_domhan]

Originally Posted by Marnica

Sorry that you may have to stop . I hope it doesn't come to that. As for vaxing and BF, I would argue that if one is not BF than there is MORE of a reason not to vax since vaxing taxes the immune system, and formula feeding can be taxing on the immune system as well. Vaxing would just add to the the burden IMO.
.

Good point, there are other options than formula - which (hopefully not to offend other posters) is something I would only use in dire need. I'd go raw goat milk if BM were not available. I still might consider vaxxing (there are only two that I'd ever consider anyway) and fairly delayed (well after the age of two).

[BRmama]

Originally Posted by Marnica

Sorry that you may have to stop . I hope it doesn't come to that. As for vaxing and BF, I would argue that if one is not BF than there is MORE of a reason not to vax since vaxing taxes the immune system, and formula feeding can be taxing on the immune system as well. Vaxing would just add to the the burden IMO.

:

I went through the same thing last month. Not being able to bf my baby anymore, and he's almost three months now. Basically someone posted on my thread saying that not bf does not make a vaccine anymore safe. So in other words that's even the more reason for you to consider not vaccinating IMO. We (dh and I) first made the decision to delay vax until we researched it together. Now through our research we made the decision to not vax. Now I give my ds a daily dose of multivitamins (drops form) and probiotic to help his immune system. I think the probiotic I'd be giving it anyway even if I was bf. I tried to buy donated bm but unfortunately it was too expensive. Anyway just knowing that there are ways to build his immune system was a huge relief for me. I'll try to find my post so you can look at it.
Good luck

[BRmama]

Here's the link to the thread I did when I was in a similar situation.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...102&highlight=

Also if you ultimately have to turn to formula feel free to pm me with questions, I did a lot of research on this before making my decision. (I'm a geek that way, I research everything )

[Chakra]

I have three boys. who are not vaxed. My first two were b/f. The thrird (9 months) was b/f for the forst month of his life. After that I had to put him on formula because we found out he has liver disease. That was hard for me since I'm sooooo pro b/f. But...I have not worried about him being more at risk than my other boys. I'm not sure if I will vax him yet.

[carriebft]

Because I do not believe the argument that vaccines "weaken the immune system" I don't go for the "if you don't breastfeed, not vaccinating is even more important" argument.

I see breastfeeding as protection (biological norm-- FF increases risks-- either way you want to look at it) against certain diseases. Breastfeeding can lessen severity, decrease recovery time and even offer significant protection -esp against bacterial infections it seems.

If I wasn't breastfeeding, I would definitely be relooking at the schedule I have set up as well as possibly adding to the benefit side of some vaccines that we decided not to do (such as prevnar)

[Ruthla]

I'm going to assume that, if you're considering weaning due to allergies, then it's because you're on an elimination diet yourself and it's not working well enough. In that case, donor milk isn't an option, raw milk formula isn't an option, home made meat-based formula isn't an option, and you'll be feeding the baby a highly processed "predigested, hypoallergenic" formula.

Breastfeeding is the biological norm and keeps the baby's immune system the strongest possible. Formula fed babies don't get the immunities, probiotics, etc, found in breast milk, which leaves them more susceptable to various illnesses. However, medically fragile babies (such as those with numerous food allergies, to the point where breastmilk can't even be tolerated) may be at higher risk of vaccine reactions.

Remember that vaccines have only been tested on "normal healthy" babies. Vaccines are made from numerous different ingredients, and contain possible allergens.

If you end up using formula, I'd suggest being extra-careful about exposing baby to germs- avoid crowds, wash hands more frequently, etc.- at least until the baby is at the age where he or she is crawling on the floor and eating dirt (which is IMO a sign that baby is ready to handle exposure to more germs.)

[carriebft]

something else to think about is that formula feeding leads to more ear infection risk and that might make a vaccine like Prevnar more dangerous, as it is known to increase drug resistant ear infections:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20825107/

so I would weigh that as well...

[harmonyhobbit]

I see these as fairly separate issues. I had a highly allergic baby. We decided to selectively vax. I'm also delaying a little this time around. IMO, BF or FFing does not change the vaxes or the impact on the immune system significantly. I'm more hesitant to introduce possibly allergenic substances into an allergic child.
FTR my child was BF, but if I had switched him to hypoallergenic formula (which I was VERY resistant to and my ped recommended against), I woudl have still followed the same vax schedule.

[BRmama]

I know this isn't the issue but maybe another option for you...(anyone correct me if I'm wrong) have you looked into goats milk? My BIL had allergies to bm and refused formula as well and so his ped recommended goatmilk. Now this was back in the eighties, BIL is an adult now and since then I'm sure that things have changed.

As far as vax goes maybe you could delay them, and research the vax's? Maybe ask yourself what it is about the vax/disease that makes you uncomfortable? Just an idea

[amyandelle]

Thank you everyone!!

Ok here is the issue. I don't think Azaliah has food allergies/intolerances. I think I am producing antigens in my breastmilk that she is reacting to. It is all very complicated and honestly makes my head spin.

This is the history...

Elle was a very fussy, gassy, refluxy, never sleeping baby. When we started feeing her solids at 6 months she started to display severe food intolerance symptoms (bloody green diarrhea and a terrible diaper rash) I went on an elim diet and things got better. We eliminated Dairy, Soy, Gluten, and Corn. I stayed on the elim diet until she weaned. A week after she weaned she was no longer allergic to anything.

Meadow was watched by me like a hawk the first few weeks of her life watching for food intolerance symptoms (now that I knew that Elle was a miserable baby because I missed her symptoms until they was blatently obvious). At about 2-3 weeks she got a diaper rash and started to be just a slight bit fussy. I eliminated Dairy and Soy immediatly and things got somewhat better. After another week I had to eliminate Gluten, Eggs and Peanut butter and we saw 100% improvment. She was such a happy baby and never went through the horrible pain that Elle did. I stayed on the elim diet until Meadow weaned at almost 2. After about 2-3 weeks following weaning Meadow was no longer allergic to anything.

OK so do you see where I am going with this?

Now for Azaliah. She has been spitting up and refluxing since birth. She was sleeping good at night (waking only to nurse) until about 10 days old. That's when the reflux really started to bother her. She stopped sleeping at night and just got really frantic and rooted around like crazy however would not nurse at all during this time. She is gassy, refluxy, spitty, and generally miserable at times. She also has had a diaper rash since about 10 days old too. I have been on an elim diet for over a week now and have not seen any improvment in fact things seem to be getting worse. I have been keeping her in the bed at night even when she fusses because it seems that she does not get to that frantic part if I don't leave the dark bedroom. However she refluxs and spitts up all night and in the morning I have to hold her upright for about an hour before she will nurse because her stomach is so upset. I am ordering an Amby bed for her tonight in hopes that she will find some relief with it.

So I really don't know what to do. At this point maybe she has food intolerances maybe not. Maybe she is just refluxy? I really don't know. With Elle and Meadow it was so cut and dry. I eliminated and they got better. It's not working this time. That is why I said I might wean but I am not there yet and pray I don't have to. I just want to figure this out so that she can feel better. I don't care what I have to eliminate I am happy to do it. It's just so unclear to me what is causing this KWIM?

Anyway, that is the whole situation. If anyone here has any insight into what could be the problem I would welcome any opinion's!!

Thanks,
Amy

[phathui5]

I would make decisions about vaccinating independently of ones about nursing.

[SunshineJ]

If a child who wasn't breastfed gets chickenpox at age 5, is it really going to be THAT much worse than if they'd nursed for a year or more? I'm not inclined to believe so. I do think breastfeeding provides important antibodies and all that, but I also think it's very possible to have a non-breastfed child who still has a good immune system that can do an adequate job protecting against most illnesses.

[momma_c]

I breastfed my son until he was 9 months old when we weaned him to prescription formula neocate, I do not and will not vaccinate him. He is allergic to nearly everything(and that is not an exaggeration). His immune system is so taxed that I would not do it now if I felt any vax was worth it, I do my very best to keep him and his body as healthy as I can in the event something does come up. I know 9 months is much different than 3 weeks, but I do not think you should make your decisions on vaccinating based on this, do what you can to keep your child as healthy as possible weather they are having breastmilk or formula.
Good luck to you and I hope things work out for you and your babe!

[MayBaby2007]

I had this same worry when BF didn't work out. I starved dd for her first 3 months of life. All she got was the let down and nothing else. (A midwife, doula and ped witnessed dd nurse and they all said she was nursing fine until I saw a LC who noticed otherwise). She was on formula from 3 months until 20 months, when she self weaned. Still, vaccinations scared me too much (and scared me more with her not BF).

After starving her and having her on formula, I still wouldn't/haven't vaxed her. She's a healthy, typical, spirited almost-2-yo. She hasn't been to the doctor in close to a year and so far seems to be the healthiest of all the people I know.

[newmum35]

I was a FF baby in the early 70s - long before most vaxes were out. The only ones I believe I've had would have been DTP and oral polio. There was no hib back then. I wasn't around lots of people, my mom was SAH, but I did have 2 older siblings in school. I never got hib or anything close to it. The only thing was I suffered terribly with ear infections/ ear aches (so I've been told) I also got chicken pox as a baby (siblings brought it home from school) which I remember nothing about. The way I look at it is, think of everyone 30 or 40 years ago, the vast majority were told to Formula Feed (because its better) - thats what my mom was told, and nobody ran around scared of hib or other diseases that was have vaxes for today. I'm just not convinced that one needs hib vaccine simply because one is FF and not BF. If that were the case, me and my 3 siblings would all be dead of hib disease by now! (we were all FF babies) We were not in day care and were stay at home with mom.

[just_lily]

My baby has been on formula since three weeks of age. I have shared my story a number of times and just can't get into it again. Suffice it to say, it totally sucks.

We aren't vaxing. At all. None. My perspective is that breastfeeding may lower the chances of getting sick, but formula certainly doesn't make vaccines any SAFER.

We also don't take any extra precautions about germs or staying in like some of the pp have mentioned. At ten months of age we have only had a couple of very minor colds - basically just stuffy noses. She is a very healthy baby.

[tanyalynn]

Amy, have you been over to the Allergies forum? May be helpful, I think at least one or two moms have had similar experiences, where kiddo didn't seem to have reactions except through mom's milk.

I'd consider something like digestive enzymes and maybe allergy testing (intolerances) for you--many of us find that our own health issues get worse as we get depleted from childbearing/nursing, so you may have more foods you're reacting to, and at some point it's hard to guess correctly.

re: vaccination, personally I think there are so many things that we can do to support our kids through illness that I don't think vaccines are necessary. It takes work to fill the toolbox with ideas, but it's worth it IMO. Also, one thing to consider--if _you_ are reacting to more and more foods with each child, it sounds like your body is overtaxed, which means there's been less nutritional stores for this kiddo to start out with. I don't mean this in an accusatory way--I learned the hard way. But I see that as a reason to focus on the healing that you both may need, to fill you both up with nutrients.