Why not vax for meningitis?

[phathui5]

We've been non-vaxers for seven years now, but meningitis does scare me and I'm wondering why we shouldn't vax for that?

[carriebft]

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1079107

that's another active thread on this that kinda looks at the same question with some interesting insights.

[mysticmomma]

The meningitis vaccine is only “effective” against 4 strains of bacteria. Bacterial meningitis can be treated with a number of effective antibiotics. It is important, that treatment is started early. The viral variety usually isn't serious and runs its course uneventfully, typically in about two weeks without treatment. Immunity from the vaccine is said to last from 3-5 years. The vaccine increases the risk for GBS. In 2008 there were 2100 adverse reactions reported to VAERS.

Meningitis affects about 2,800 Americans annually. Meningitis is fatal in approximately 10 % of all cases. Another 10 % develops serious health problems, including mental retardation, hearing loss and gangrene.

So of these 2800 affected, approximately 560 will have adverse outcomes.


BBLWM

[PaigeC]

And, honestly, there isn't a "meningitis" vaccine any more than there is a "cervical cancer" vaccine. I think it creates a false sense of protection.

[MadameXCupcake]

Originally Posted by PaigeC

And, honestly, there isn't a "meningitis" vaccine any more than there is a "cervical cancer" vaccine. I think it creates a false sense of protection.

That is what I was coming to say when I saw this under new posts.
There is NO meningitis vaccine. You dont catch meningitis.

[skeegan23]

My ped was just talking to me about this... I am selective vaxing at 2 yrs and really only have a couple that I feel are necessary... but he said the biggest recommendation he has is to get the HIB vax because it is linked to meningitis.. ?? Haven't actually researched it yet but he told me to do some research on it and we will talk about it at our next visit. HIB was actually a vax I was not concerned with whatsoever so I plan to do some further research.

[carriebft]

Yes, the hib bacteria use to be a big cause of meningitis but meningitis due to hib has been almost eliminated due to the vaccine.

[mamadelbosque]

As others have noted, there is no "meningitis vaccine" - there are vaccines which prevent a few strands of a few bacteria/virus' which are known to cause meningitis. But there are literally hundreds of other virus' and bacteria which can and do cause meningitis.

[mamabeca]

Well that seems counter to the argument that there is no vaccine?! If there is a vaccine containing some strains of meningicocal bacteria, it could help prevent meningitis if that illness is caused from the bacteria. If it the vaccine contains only septic forms of the bacteria it will not help if someone contracts aseptic meningitis. There are many strains of the bacteria, however (something like the flu, the most common ones are picked to go into the vaccine and the rest is up to chance), so it is entirely possible that bacterial (septic) meningitis can be contracted even though an individual has had the shot.

Secondarily, I always take the VAERS numbers with a pinch of salt. No one is checking up on doctors who don't report adverse reactions. Children, for example, who contract a disease after they have been given the jab (say within the month) are not consistently reported. It is thought by some that the vaccine can't give them the disease, or that the form of the disease that they are able to contract after being vaccinated is not serious enough to warrant reporting. This, of course, is BS.

So: are the HIB and Meningitis vaccines given together? Is there evidence that getting one reduces the other? Is it the Meningitis vaccine that has reduced it's own incidence, or the HIB vaccine that has reduced the incidence of Meningitis associated with HIB? I'm somewhat conFUSED! As a so-far non-vax'er, I'm wondering how this works.

[mysticmomma]

Originally Posted by carriebft

Yes, the hib bacteria use to be a big cause of meningitis but meningitis due to hib has been almost eliminated due to the vaccine.

Except that Hib serotype replacement is a HUGE issue.

[carriebft]

Well, its debatable. Just saw this study today:

http://7thspace.com/headlines/307253...ccine_era.html

I am looking for the actual piece to read.

[carriebft]

So: are the HIB and Meningitis vaccines given together? Is there evidence that getting one reduces the other? Is it the Meningitis vaccine that has reduced it's own incidence, or the HIB vaccine that has reduced the incidence of Meningitis associated with HIB? I'm somewhat conFUSED! As a so-far non-vax'er, I'm wondering how this works.

I assume you are talking about prevnar and hib; both are vaccines that prevent bacteria that commonly lead to meningitis.

Both have created declines in meningitis caused by their respective bacterias.

They can do nothing to prevent bacterias that are not included in the vaccine.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by carriebft

Well, its debatable. Just saw this study today:

http://7thspace.com/headlines/307253...ccine_era.html

I am looking for the actual piece to read.

here:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content...-2334-9-45.pdf

[carriebft]

cool thanks!

[mamabeca]

Thanks Carrie!

I'm reading that article, and it's not clear to me that they used a control group (non-vax). Maybe they simply didn't. Whichever, the conclusion is that the vaccine did not cause a change in serotype for contracted cases of bacterial meningitis. But they say that more than 1/2 the cases (192) were non-type b. How does that work? Wouldn't they need a study showing that 1/2 or more of the cases before the vax was issued were also non-b? What's the diff. between the capsulated and non-capsulated? Does that refer to the specific strains included in the vax? Medical jargon is not my forte lol!

[carriebft]

They looked at the Hi cases that occurred in Germany in that 8 years since they started using the Hib vaccine, so there would be no control group or that kind of thing. They were looking to see if the data from the past eight years supported a hypothesis concerning serotype replacement. The data did not support and they concluded that there has been no evidence of serotype replacement in Germany since the introduction of the hib vaccine.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by carriebft

They looked at the Hi cases that occurred in Germany in that 8 years since they started using the Hib vaccine, so there would be no control group or that kind of thing. They were looking to see if the data from the past eight years supported a hypothesis concerning serotype replacement. The data did not support and they concluded that there has been no evidence of serotype replacement in Germany since the introduction of the hib vaccine.

But they only looked at other types of haemophilus influenzae (I hope I got that spelling right). That's sorta pointless, the only utility I see is if they want to figure out if they need to add Hi(something) strains to the vaccine. That doesn't really speak to meningitis cases, or invasive bacterial infections, as a whole. It doesn't address the remaining world of bacteria that could step into the void left by the lack of Hib.

[carriebft]

What other bacteria is taking over for hi/hib? do you have any evidence on that or just theory?

The theory on hib serotype replacement holds that other Hi strains will take the place of hib now that we are vaccinating for hib. This study claims that this theory does not hold in Germany over the past 8 years.

It is not serotype replacement if a whole 'nother bacteria is taking over. But, again, I don't see evidence of that either. This study only looked at the question of serotype replacement.

[mamadelbosque]

What it comes down to is this: Has the HiB vaccine reduced the overall number of meningitis cases? Yes or No? If it has, then its worked. If not, then its worthless. I don't have the time to google atm, but what I recall is that the overall number of meningitis cases has *not* declined since we started using the HiB vaccine. So, IMO, its worthless.

[carriebft]

That might be true if:

1) there was evidence for it (people seem to say it all the time but I have yet to see evidence; I have seen plenty of evidence of the reverse)

2) hib only caused meningitis and nothing else-- i would say that we would need to look not only at meningitis numbers but pneumonia, epiglotitis (sp), etc.

Also, if we see an overall increase in meningitis it cannot immediately be connected...there could be another reason for the increase and said increase could be seen to have been much worse if not for elimination of meningitis due to hib.