Control & Anger carrying over from my own childhood

[my3peanuts]

Roughly 2 years ago I decided to stop spanking. Since then I've tried to change my mindset and approach discipline more gently. Sometimes I do very well and other times I fall back into my old ways. Not of spanking but of yelling, demanding respect but not giving it, using punishment that isn't related to the offense, etc...

I REALLY want to learn how to deal with situations in a better way because I find myself falling back on these things when I don't know how else to do it. In my home spankings were given frequently. I was also never allowed to have an opinion and was never allowed to talk back although my mom yelled a ton and demanded respect without giving it. I DO NOT want to be like this and yet it's been hard to break these habits!

My biggest issue is with my 5.5 year old dd. She is just like me and I find her behavior very much resembles the way I react to her and yet for some reason nothing seems to change. I do believe a child needs to respect their parents and yet I've been conditioned to believe that if your child gets angry with you they are in some way disrespecting you. I need to change the dynamics and I'm not sure how to start.

I really do believe if I changed my behavior my dd's would also change. She does listen well but it's always with a fight. Stomping feet, whining, screaming, etc...

An example would be: I ask her to please get dressed because we need to leave. She screams and throws a fit about not wanting to leave. I tell her I understand she doesn't want to, I don't want to either, but we need to because we have an appt. She continues to throw a fit. I ask her again to please get dressed. After a few minutes of that I end up yelling and telling her to get dressed NOW. Sometimes I will tell her if she doesn't get dressed right now she'll "be in trouble" although I don't even really know what that means. Probably it would mean sitting in her room although she really never tests this, she usually just finally goes to her room, stomping all the way.

I'm not sure if there's really anything I should do. Should I start out telling her I understand she doesn't want to go and then ignore the behavior if it escalates? Typically if I do this she will go get dressed on her own. I don't know why I have this strong urge to curb her screaming and fit throwing. Probably because of the way I was raised and also because my IL's have mentioned how she will throw fits and they think she should be spanked for it because it's disrespectful. My MIL throws out the phrase "willfully defiant" and I do think if she were to scream, "No, I will not get dressed" at me then I too would feel she was being disrespectful but when she's just expressing her frustration I do not feel like this calls for punishment.

Anyway, this is long. Any gentle advice would be great! I'm willing to learn!

[krystyn33]

I find coping with my own feelings and knee-jerk reactions to be one of the biggest challenges in parenting. The idea that we have to respond to an undesirable behavior immediately comes from the behaviorist approach (think dog training) and I just think human beings are more complex and don't need this style of feedback in order to learn. So you can just pause--as long as you need to--and watch yourself and your inner reactions. Inside your mind you can yell, have a tirade, go through your fears that she will never cooperate or be respectful of others, etc. Once you get all that stuff out & feel centered, then you are more free to act consciously to solve the problem in a way you feel good about.

At her age you might be able to sit down and have a talk (at a happy/safe time, not in the middle of the conflict) about how to solve this particular problem of getting dressed to both your satisfaction. It's important to start this out really positive and not slip into a blaming thing. The book HOW TO TALK SO KIDS WILL LISTEN has great cartoon examples to illustrate principles of non-violent communication and problem solving strategies which keep things mutually respectful & more productive. There may need to be room in the discussion for her to vent her feelings or complain a little bit with you remaining in an objective, listening mode--just making observations "I hear you feel... when..." If she has a say in coming up with a routine or strategy to make getting out the door easier for everyone (or whatever the particular issue is) she will be more likely to cooperate. Seriously, check out that book--lots of great "scripts" in there when you are looking for a new way of relating with your children (and anyone you love, really).

HTH.

[GradysMom]

I am right there with you and sinceI had an unfortunately extended visit with my mother I found myself getting hung up on the respect thing. For me it helps tremendously that I have little or no contact with my own mother.. so that I am not being fed poison that interfers with my rational adult decisions regarding how to conduct all aspects of my life.

As for the example.... I would suggest stepping way outside the box for one week and go for that other extreme.... If she won't get dressed, grab easy shoes and leave with her in her jammies.. No shaming... just let her 5.5yo self go out for the day in jammies...

I think with the respect baggage comes other "standards" of how to live that make it hard for those of us who grew up like that ( and I definately grew up like you did op, just add my moms bipolar crap tp it). It would, has been very hard for me to do something like this, but wearning jammas out for the day at that age is really not unheard of, even if it in not proper...

kwim... just examine what of you standards in a day are comming from the "respect bagage"

[momma_unlimited]

I *really* relate to you!

The stomping the feet, whining, complaining about every request- I have been trying to deal with it without punishing. First I had a talk with him about how we want to treat each other sweetly in our family, and how mommy needs to work on it the most of everyone. So when he stomps his feet or complains, I say "we need to practice doing this sweetly". So I'll take his hand and we'll do the thing he just did a few times til there is no eye rolling, mad gestures, foot stomping, disgusted sighing, etc. Sometimes we make it funny; I imitate him and ask him if I looked sweet or not and he laughs about it.

The nice thing is he returns the favor. When I get out of sorts he says "mommy, can you do it sweetly?".

This takes a lot of patience and consistency. It does not get immediate results like the more punitive forms of discipline might... but it keeps harmony in our relationship, and it shows that he cannot just act any old way without his behaviour being addressed. I have also taught him ways to express how he feels (in case he isn't feeling "sweet") so that it doesn't drive me crazy- he can say things like "I really would prefer not to ____ (get dressed, wash my hands, etc) but I since mommy asked me to I will", or "it's very hard for me to wash my hands right now but I'm going to do it".

[my3peanuts]

Thank you for the responses. Today has been a really rough day.

We got home and she had gotten some new little bears. One of their pillows was out in the van and she asked to go out and get it. I said, "I'll go get it in a minute". I didn't want her going out because it was raining all day and muddy. She cannot get the van door open and would have to go through the front seat. I was worried about the mud so I told her I would get it. Immediately she starts screaming at me about it and I said, "Because you're screaming about it you can wait". I'm sure not the best approach by any means but I was so frustrated with this constant behavior. She said, "I'm going to go out anyway!" I said, "No, I told you that you were not going outside." Anyway, I was putting stuff away and she went out anyway. While she was outside I took her bears and put them up. I told her because I specifically asked her not to go out and she did it anyway that she wasn't going to play with her bears.

At this point the first things to play out in my mind were spanking her or sending her to her room so taking away the bears was the best option in my mind. At the time I didn't think of any other options but I was mad and reacted. She very rarely(cannot even remember the last time) flat out does something that she's not asked to do. There are definitely times she does not listen right away but she always eventually will and she never just does exactly what I said not to do so I was really upset with her and feeling like her behavior is spiraling out of control.

Anyway, since then I have said nothing about the bears because I'm too upset with her. She's been screaming at me and her sister about everything. She is so angry all the time and I am so overwhelmed with her that I don't even know where to start.

I try sitting down and talking with her and asking her how she's feeling and she just says, "I don't know" or "Nothing is wrong". She'll cry and I will hear her out if she'll finally tell me what's bothering her but it's always just that, "you didn't let me do _____" and I will explain why I didn't let her and that I understand that she's upset about it and on and on but nothing seems to get resolved. She ends up crying and saying she wants to be in her room and alone and that's that.

I really do believe her behavior needed to be dealt with. I do expect her to obey when I ask her not to do something and I'm not ok with with just ignoring her behavior. At the same time however I know punishing her is not the best solution and yet I feel like I don't have any other tools.

[Super Glue Mommy]

I relate completely! Anger and control issues are my biggest hang ups from my own childhood. I try to read a lot on the subject, ask for help when I need it, and most importantly, work towards healing myself. It makes a big difference when you can heal your own childhood instead of just trying to go through the right motions. I'm glad to hear how important it is to you. Just be patient with your child AND with your self. We all make mistakes, feel free to apologize to your child and enlist their help. When you speak in a way that is unkind to her she can tll you "mom remember to talk to me like I am someone you love" ... perhaps this is a statement you can both learn to use?

[transylvania_mom]

Originally Posted by my3peanuts

I try sitting down and talking with her and asking her how she's feeling and she just says, "I don't know" or "Nothing is wrong". She'll cry and I will hear her out if she'll finally tell me what's bothering her but it's always just that, "you didn't let me do _____" and I will explain why I didn't let her and that I understand that she's upset about it and on and on but nothing seems to get resolved. She ends up crying and saying she wants to be in her room and alone and that's that.

I think that she's very clear about what bothers her. Personally, I wouldn't make up arbitrary rules and I'll try to do as I say. It seems to me that "because you were screaming, I won't do what you asked me" came out of the blue and although I understand your frustration, I can also understand why she was upset. Taking her bears away was definitely a punishment and escalated the whole situation. You explained your reasons after the fact, but I wonder if she knew that rain=mud=mess to clean up, or she just wanted her pillow and didn't understand why you wouldn't let her get it.

I have a very strong-willed ds, and sometimes taking two minutes to get to his level and explain: Please give me five minutes (or let me finish XYZ) and I'll help you get what you want, can save me a lot of tantruming and frustration. Sometimes, when I'm tired or sick I resort to "don't do that because I said so", but it doesn't usually work.

[ahimsa_in_action]

I read this post yesterday but didn't have anything original to add. I felt a deep resonation with what you said, though, since I was also raised in a pretty similar fashion: not respected but expected to give respect, not listened to and if I tried to speak my mind I was told not to "talk back". I also now have a hard time controlling my anger with my son who is almost two and a half. So I looked at this some this morning and I realized that my son is doing the exact same things I would do that would piss my parents off (which is now pissing me off): not listening to me, getting frustrated back, doing whatever he wants sometimes even after I've asked in many different ways not to do whatever it is, and just being plain defiant. Looking at this after reading your post, I saw that it's the not listening aspect that really rubs me the wrong way. Seeing that I realized that he was mirroring my own frustration that I was never allowed to express. The more he tries to express it, the more it triggers that silenced, angry part of me that was never allowed a voice. I see myself as a little kid manifesting now as my son, wanting to be heard and respected and given as much free will as possible, but since I haven't healed that part of me that wasn't allowed any of this it makes me want to retaliate. Who is he to be able to have all this freedom when I was never given any at his age?! This is the underlying exclamation, even though the conscious mind says that he is, of course, entitled to be an autonomous individual. So seeing all of this, I am now able to delve into this emotional hang-up and heal it once and for all. If I can help that part of myself see that it's okay to be angry, it's okay to have a voice, it's okay to want to be free and autonomous and respected then it will become okay for my little boy. I hope you find some of your own inner truth in these words as well

[simplymother]

I can relate to your feelings a lot. I also find it hard not to react right away when I'm feeling "disrespected" but I'm slowly learning that when I react, it really just escalates things. I've been watching my husband and he's much better at this, so I'm trying to learn from him. He seems to recognize that when she's yelling or responding to a request in an angry way, she's just venting HER emotion, and she should be entitled to it. I tend to make it "mine" by reacting to it, but his response is so much better.

In your example about asking her to get dressed, he would probably make the request or statement "It's time to get dressed sweetie, we need to go," and then when/if she complained or said she wasn't going to, he'd simply reiterate in a calm, compassionate tone what needed to happen, along with maybe some sympathy or validation of her feelings.

So like, "Hey hon, I know you're having a good time playing and you don't want to get ready, but we really do need to go. Let me know if you need any help."

And then let it go. Walk away and get on with whatever else needs to be done. Allow her to vent if she needs to. Accept her feelings, let her have them. Don't "raise the anty" by issuing threats or making the demand "more serious" with a louder voice or anything--that, to me, seems to make your previous, calm approach meaningless--so that next time she's even less likely to respond to it.

I, too, was raised with the punishment model and it is so very tempting to use it. But it really, really does just make things worse in so many ways. It leads to a lot of anger and resentment, which can't be at all good for your relationship, and your relationship is exactly what you need to count on to get her willing to cooperate with you!

But, trust me, I know how hard this is. Just remember, it's not tempting because it's the right thing to do, it's just tempting because it's the only thing you can think of at the moment, and because it's what was done to you.

Good luck!

[krystyn33]

Beautiful post, ahimsa!

[Sasharna]

Originally Posted by krystyn33

Beautiful post, ahimsa!

Yes. It really is. I think it will help me, too.

[lydiaharper]

[QUOTE=my3peanuts;13714050]
I really do believe her behavior needed to be dealt with. I do expect her to obey when I ask her not to do something and I'm not ok with with just ignoring her behavior. At the same time however I know punishing her is not the best solution and yet I feel like I don't have any other tools.[/QUOTE/]

I feel the same way. I am new to GD; we were a spanking family before. I guess I am still more on that end of GD, than (whats it called) consensual living? DH and I are not ones to just ignore behavior like this. While, I do not want to spank, I do think that time-outs are fine for certain issues. I am trying to do "logical consequences", though, so it's not a time out for everything. Just when they need to calm down and cool off.

Anyway, I don't really have any advice for you (new to all this and in the same boat), just wanted to let you know I am dealing with the same thing with DS1 who will be 6 next month.

Lydia

[Cparkinson]

hello all,
Some very thoughtful replies here----discipline is very difficult at times.
I agree that we all have issues carried forth from our own childhood, if only we could identify these and work on getting them out of the way now.

I would say whatever route you choose, consistency is the biggest factor to make it stick and keep working as they get older and you can talk to them more. When they are very young, rationalizing just can't work as they do not have the language skills to understand it. They need to know some boundaries to live within, then still have some room to explore.