Do your children attend UU service with you or go to the nursery?

[jazzharmony]

We are visiting all of the UU churches in our area before picking the right one for our family.

My children seem to be the only ones around during the sermon. All the others head to the nursery (not sure what it's called) before the sermon begins. We went to our fourth UU service yesterday (4 different churches)
Do any of you keep your kids with you during the service? My children are not interested in going to the nursery - actually my 4yo was curious but would only go if her 8yo brother was willing and he is very interested in listening to the sermons at each church.

I of course am concerned that some of the themes may have the potential to upset them but i'm also wondering about my letting go a little and allowing them to experience some of it and having a lot of discussion afterward. I'm not sure but at this point in order for me to go to the service they have to come.

I guess I feel a little out of place with the kids there and wondering if it's "normal" to have kids at the service.

[Callimom]

Depends on the day.
Sometimes they stay with me and sometimes they don't.
My oldest is 11 and if there aren't many/any of the older kids for th program he often stays up.
My 8 y/o daughter likes to help the babies in the nursery.
My other kids 8 and 4 like the RE program and often go downstairs to participate.

At our church some kids stay but most go to the RE program.

hth
Karen

[EnviroBecca]

I'm interested to hear this and interested to see what others will say, because this was one of many things that turned me off about the UU congregation in which I was raised. (I'm now an Episcopalian.) I know that individual UU congregations vary quite a bit, but I've never visited one in which children were encouraged to attend the adult service in full. My parents now belong to a VERY small UU church where the kids sit with their parents for the first 10 minutes or so, then go to the RE (religious education) rooms for the rest of the time. People were very startled that my son not only wanted to stay with us but behaved quite well--because that's what we do at our church.

The UU church we attended when I was a kid was very large and had a RE class for every grade, which met during the entire time of adult ed and adult service. We spent about half an hour of that time in a children's chapel service, which I always found kind of lacking; I wanted to go to REAL church! But they actively discouraged kids from attending adult ed or adult service; the times I went with my parents, I heard, "Why aren't you in RE?" every couple minutes and got a lot of disapproving looks. It's worth noting that the kids I knew there were very detached from their parents, sort of in their own kid world; and that when we finally were allowed to attend the adult service starting in 10th grade, most of us felt uninterested and would rather hang out in the basement or go for a walk.

I of course am concerned that some of the themes may have the potential to upset them

You want to check into what they're doing in RE, then. A lot of our curriculum was about death, war, divorce, racism, disabilities, famine, genocide, and other disturbing topics. Only the stuff about atomic bombs was really damaging to me, but typically I left church very heavy-hearted.

[Adele_Mommy]

At my church kids of visitors frequently stay with their parents, mostly because they don't feel comfortable leaving their parents in a strange new place. This is totally accepted at my church.

Of the members and long-time visitors, most of the kids of RE age do go to RE simply because it is more fun for them. We "sing the kids out" about 10-15 minutes into the service, after the chalice lighting, opening hymn, and children's story.

Before my dd was old enough for RE, she usually stayed with me rather than go to the nursery (or sometimes I left her at home with dad). Now she goes to RE unless the service is an intergenerational service. My church usually has 9-10 intergenerational services each year.

[Adele_Mommy]

Originally Posted by EnviroBecca

I'm interested to hear this and interested to see what others will say, because this was one of many things that turned me off about the UU congregation in which I was raised. (I'm now an Episcopalian.) I know that individual UU congregations vary quite a bit, but I've never visited one in which children were encouraged to attend the adult service in full. My parents now belong to a VERY small UU church where the kids sit with their parents for the first 10 minutes or so, then go to the RE (religious education) rooms for the rest of the time. People were very startled that my son not only wanted to stay with us but behaved quite well--because that's what we do at our church.

The UU church we attended when I was a kid was very large and had a RE class for every grade, which met during the entire time of adult ed and adult service. We spent about half an hour of that time in a children's chapel service, which I always found kind of lacking; I wanted to go to REAL church! But they actively discouraged kids from attending adult ed or adult service; the times I went with my parents, I heard, "Why aren't you in RE?" every couple minutes and got a lot of disapproving looks. It's worth noting that the kids I knew there were very detached from their parents, sort of in their own kid world; and that when we finally were allowed to attend the adult service starting in 10th grade, most of us felt uninterested and would rather hang out in the basement or go for a walk.

You want to check into what they're doing in RE, then. A lot of our curriculum was about death, war, divorce, racism, disabilities, famine, genocide, and other disturbing topics. Only the stuff about atomic bombs was really damaging to me, but typically I left church very heavy-hearted.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience growing up UU. I do think this varies from church to church, but I think UU children's RE has probably changed in general since you were a child. My dd comes out of RE excited and happy. They do occasionally discuss rather "heavy" topics, but they warned us in advance when her class was going to be talking about death and we prepared her before that class and gave her the option of not attending (she decided she wanted to go).

At my church there are some members who would probably prefer it if they never had to see a child, but they are in the minority. My congregation went through a period of actively trying to become more family-friendly about 10 years ago, and we are continuing to work on this. Our church has grown significantly (almost doubled the number of members) in the last five to six years and the newer members tend to skew younger and with more young kids, which I think helps a lot.

I never felt disapproval at all when my dd stayed with me for the whole service. However, I personally am glad my church does not encourage kids to stay for the whole service, because frankly, I think the majority of kids younger than 10 or so would find a sermon incredibly boring. My dd does anyway, and I don't think it is possible or desirable for the minister or leader to always try to have sermons that will keep young children entertained.

[LaLaLaLa]

In my UU church, kids are allowed to stay if they want to, but we have a lot of kids in our church, so there are RE programs for every age. Often the older kids start off in the church with us and stay for the first part of the service, which always involves something for kids from the RE coordinator. They leave before the real sermon, which is often about topics that might not be okay for kids--torture, abortion rights, and Harvey Milk have been recent subjects of sermons at my church.

Right now in the children's chapel they are doing lots of tribal drumming, so I don't think the kids mind going there instead of staying in church.

My kids are 4 1/2 and 3 and always go with the kids; quite frankly, my time in church is an hour of peace and introspection for me, and I would not be able to have the amount of peace and focus I need with two small children crawling on me, whispering in my ears, or making faces at their friends. My kids just wouldn't be able to handle real church at this point, so I'm glad my church provides fun things for them to do.

[wombatclay]

You can see the RE program for our UU on their website here... because our community is smallish but with a growing youth population/young families the curriculum tends to be pretty "off the shelf" so I'd imagine it's pretty similar to many UU programs. The kids stay with their families for the first 15 minutes or so, then there is a story just for them that is generally on the same theme as the adult sermon, and the congregation sings them out to RE. Children are welcome to stay with their parents if they prefer or parents can go to RE with their child but in general most of the older kiddos go to RE. Our community has a nursery (with paid, trained, staff) for children under 4 but mostly kiddos in that age group either stay with their parents in the main assembly or stay with a parent in the community room (connected to the assembly hall, it has a sound system so you can hear things and it's a nice space where the whole congregation gathers after the service for coffee/fellowship... there are several people who habitually sit there for the service since it's more laid back, you can drink your coffee and put your feet up while listening to the sermon, and it has room for young children to be a bit noiser/active).

DD1 is 4yo and loves her RE program... she actually asks all week when the next "church day" is. But DD2 is only 2yo and not interested in being someplace without mama so most weeks I take her into the community room and have some coffee while listening to the sermon as she plays.

I think in general a lot of UU congregations follow the sort of "standard Protestant model" of having the young people attend their own program during church time. But each UU congregation is it's own entity and you can find a really wide range of practices/styles. However, I think that no matter what it's important to be involved with the RE program so you know what is being offered. It was good to know ahead of time what her class was going to be sharing a Passover celebration so we knew what she was talking about when she said the story she heard in class was "a bit scary" (she is very sensitive and didn't like the different plagues).

[Tigerchild]

I think it greatly depends on the makeup of the individual church.

The UU church we attended here was VERY family-centric, with a ton of kids. So the acceptance/atmosphere was quite different from a few of the others I've attended that were very small AND were made up almost entirely of post-childrearing folks (who might very well have been "liberal" politically, but certainly not socially when it came to expectations about/for children!). One I went to didn't even have a nursery because...there were no kids!

I think you can't judge a denomination or faith by any given church, and that goes double for UU. So whether your experience is good or bad, if you go to a different area/region and sometimes just down the street it can we radically different.

I have visited places that went the other way too, where AP parenting (I believe most of the parents there would have self-identified as that) was implemented as "total hands off/do whatever you want" even in the church service, and I didn't enjoy that very much either.

[jazzharmony]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences/thoughts.

It's all beginning to make more sense to me now. I wondered why people were asking if my children were "going downstairs" when I introduced myself during service. Honestly, I love the UU messages but I absolutely need to find a family friendly church or it won't work for us. My children may be unusual but they sit quietly and listen carefully. They are very interested - particularly my 8yo, in learning and listening to the sermons. I understand, however, that some sermons may not be suitable for them. I may go to church alone on those days or skip it altogether.

I also didn't realize churches provided religious education while adults listened to sermons. I am not comfortable with that - at least not unless I know exactly what they will be teaching my children. Is this where all of the children go? Do some go to a nursery and some to RE? I'm just figuring it all out

[wombatclay]

I'm generalizing, and I know plenty of exceptions, but when growing up (Roman Catholic) most of my non-Catholic friends attended some sort of RE instead of the adult sermon. I remember being envious that they could go off and do something more "fun" while I spent 45 minutes remembering my manners.

Having explored a few different religions as a parent (I also did my graduade field work with religious organizations, but I wasn't focused on their RE programs so those are a bit of a blur in my memory) I think this has become a fairly common practice in many faiths and in many parts of the country... a portion of the service is shared, then a portion is divided out by age/interest so that needs can be met in a more tailored way.

But there are certainly faiths where everyone stays together for the whole service! Have you written up a list of what you need/want in a faith community? Does it need to be primarily Christian in focus? Or Humanist? Do you want a liberal focus and what does that mean to you and your family? Would you be willing to accept a more dogmatic faith that is family oriented or do you need both the ability to choose for yourself and the family participation?

Those belief-o-matic quizes are silly but they may narrow the field for you a bit, and you can certainly ask here (in a new thread) about faiths where families participate as a group but which are also liberal/non-creedal/whatever it may be you a re looking for.

Oh... and the UU RE curriculum varies from community to community. There are a few "off the shelf" versions like the one used at my church. Other groups are more "whatever the teacher is planning". There should be an RE director or someone in the church office who would be happy to go over the details of the RE program with you. And at least at our church they are ALWAYS looking for parent volunteers to assist with the classes so while you would "miss out" on the sermon/service you would be actively involved with the kiddos.

[doubledutch]

thanks for posting this thread. i was checking out the website of the local uu congregation a couple weeks ago. i was pretty put off by the nursery for kids up to 6 years old, because i took that to mean RE starts at age 7. is that right? or does it vary by congregation and i need to just call and ask?

for me, there's no point in dropping my kids (ages 2 yrs & 3.5 yrs) in a nursery for an hour while i attend services. i'm doing this, looking for a church, for them! i was taking them to "sabbath school" at the seventh-day adventist church i grew up in for about a year and a half and they loved it so much, but i had to quit bringing them because i just disagreed so strongly with some of the things that were being taught. (i haven't considered myself sda for, like, 10 years - but i had to start somewhere.)

i have the same problem with the local friends meeting. anything that sounds like a good fit for me is sorely lacking for the kids.

[wombatclay]

Different churches have different programs... the UU church we attend now has a nursery for "under threes", then a combined 3 & 4 year old group (which dd1 attends), then classes for each "grade/age level" from there. Right up to the adult RE program which meets before the service each week.

The two other UU churches we attended in the past (both "before kids") were different... one was very small and all the children attended a "children's service" that was a sort of all ages RE program and the other had a nursery for anyone younger than "school age". Since we didn't have kiddos at that point I didn't think much about it.

[Adele_Mommy]

The children's RE setup does vary from church to church (like almost everything else UU!). What is offered can also be different at different service times if the church has multiple services each week. At my church Religious Education (as opposed to childcare) is provided for age 3 and up at the 10:30 service and for age 5 and up at the 9:00 a.m. service. These decisions are based on the number of kids and the number of teacher volunteers at each service. This page outlines the curricula for the different ages we used this past year. We are changing some things next year.

jazzharmony - at my church your kids would certainly be welcome to stay for the whole service if that is what they prefer. I find it interesting that you say you "love the UU messages" but are not comfortable with the church providing religious education for your children. In my experience UU RE is completely in line with and integrated with UU messages. I do understand being concerned about sending your children off to get instruction from strangers though. The whole year my dd was 6 we attended children's RE together at the first service time and then she came with me to the second service and stayed with me for the entire service. Now she goes off to RE by herself, but I am involved with the RE committee and review the curricula that will be used in her classes.

I think many of us have negative memories of "Sunday School" as children, particularly being told absolutes that we must believe that frequently did not make sense and/or were quite scary. UU RE does not tell children what to believe anymore than it requires specific beliefs from adults. UU children learn about other religions, what it means to be UU, and are taught to explore their own beliefs and develop their own values. Of course, EviroBecca was apparently left unhappy and feeling adrift by her UU RE. I think the key is that children do not feel they have to attend church or RE. It was very important to both my dh and myself that my dd never have religion imposed on her in anyway. She has always had the option of staying home with her dad (who does not attend), staying with me in the service, or going to RE, and her choice can be different at different times. I am lucky that the church I love also provides experiences that my dd loves.

One little anecdote: My church has Wednesday night activities for adults and kids. A couple weeks ago they took the kids on a "hike" to a nearby lake and a forestry graduate student showed them bird's nests and other things. I don't know the details, but my dd came back so happy and energized and raving about "Luke" (the forestry student). It makes me smile just thinking about it. Yes, she could have had this sort of experience a lot of places other than church, but I know she is storing up a whole tapestry of experiences and associations that will leave her with positive feelings about religion, and I think this is a great thing.

[lolar2]

At our church it is up to the family whether the children attend services or RE. Most children go to the nursery/ RE but there are at least a few children in every service. We have an area in the back with a glider where moms can sit and nurse if they prefer (although there is no rule against their nursing in the sanctuary if want, the glider is just more comfortable) and a little more space for kids to run around, if the families want their children to attend the service without having to sit still and quiet the whole time. When DS was a younger baby we used that area, but lately he prefers the nursery because there is a playground there.

Also we have the church's full RE curriculum outline up on the website and available in paper form for anyone who wants to look at it.

Another UU church I used to attend had all children at the beginning of the service, but they left for RE about halfway through each service.

Both my former and current church have intergenerational services (with no RE except nursery) about once a month.

[boigrrrlwonder]

In two different UU churches, I've been asked not to bring my toddler to the service. I gave up on church at this point in my life because of it.

[ColoradoMama]

Originally Posted by doubledutch

thanks for posting this thread. i was checking out the website of the local uu congregation a couple weeks ago. i was pretty put off by the nursery for kids up to 6 years old, because i took that to mean RE starts at age 7. is that right? or does it vary by congregation and i need to just call and ask?

for me, there's no point in dropping my kids (ages 2 yrs & 3.5 yrs) in a nursery for an hour while i attend services. i'm doing this, looking for a church, for them! i was taking them to "sabbath school" at the seventh-day adventist church i grew up in for about a year and a half and they loved it so much, but i had to quit bringing them because i just disagreed so strongly with some of the things that were being taught. (i haven't considered myself sda for, like, 10 years - but i had to start somewhere.)

i have the same problem with the local friends meeting. anything that sounds like a good fit for me is sorely lacking for the kids.

Wow. Former SDA here, too! I love so many things about the SDA church - I just don't agree with many of the things they believe in. They get so much right. It was very, very hard on me to go from such a hugely family centered church to our UU church. I love our church, and honestly, it IS becoming more of a family friendly church, but it has taken time. I would call and question about the nursery to age 6 thing - that sounds a little weird. Our nursery goes up to 2 1/2 or 3 I think.

My 7 year old almost always stays with us during the service. He just doesn't want to go to his class, and that's okay. No one has a problem with it. I have to say though that a few years ago, if one of my children would stay - we'd get looks. Another reason we left the church for a while - it's lack of family centered-ness! Recently, our church has started having one Sunday a month where the kids stay in the service for the first part (the chidren's choirs sing) and there is a story for them - then they go to their classes.

[Teenytoona]

I usually take DD to the nursery. I'd prefer to have her with me, as we attend church seperately from Mr Toona, but She's so squirmy and loud and the few times I have had her in there, I've had to take her out because she was disrupting things.

I hope that when she is older, she'd prefer to stay with me sometimes.

[ocelotmom]

My children go to the nursery (the younger) and RE (the older).

I kept the younger with me in church from birth (attended service four days after she was born) until she got to the crawling stage and wasn't happy being held anymore.

I very frequently see a kid or two or more in the service, often kids who are visiting or there for the first time and not comfortable with being away from their parents. It's never been a problem during the time I've been there - most kids just prefer the RE classes/nursery.

i was pretty put off by the nursery for kids up to 6 years old, because i took that to mean RE starts at age 7. is that right? or does it vary by congregation and i need to just call and ask?

At my church, RE classes start with Pre-K, and kids pretty much go where they want. My son stayed in the nursery by preference until he was 4, or nearly so. Last year, when he was 4, he sometimes joined the 1-3 grade class. My 2 year old daughter occasionally joins in with the Pre-K/K class (where her brother is), but most commonly goes to the nursery.

[~PurityLake~]

My daughters attend the 2-4 year old RE group. My stepson goes to the teen RE group. All three of them much prefer the fun RE over the adult stuff.