All about DMI (Divine Miss "I") - Updated

[chlobo]

So, my DD is 5 years old. She has been challenging in many ways since the beginning. She had her first two rounds of shots plus one additional shot at 9 months. None since. She had growth issues beginning at birth until about 8 months. We were encouraged to start solids early, which we did. During this time she was a different rash everyday. Body rashes, butt rashes, you name it, she had it. They continued to about 18 months. No one ever suggested eliminating foods so we didn't.

At first her poops seemed ok. But gradually, starting at about 2 years they got looser. Now her typical poop is loose, smelly and takes a while to get out (spends lots of time on the toilet). She started having behavior issues when she was around 4. We cut gluten/dairy out in January 08. We saw some improvement in the behavior but the poops never resolved. We also removed eggs for a while with no improvement. She also has somewhat dull hair and weak pealing nails. Her skin is very dry. She was on abx for 6 weeks last summer for lyme disease (had an engorged tick in her head) which didn't help things. Her hair test showed high copper & high lead.

We recently took her to a GI doctor who works with autistic kids in the hopes that he would be more "alternative".

He had us do a trial with digestive enzymes & S. Boulardii. We saw little difference on the dosage we were on.

He did bloodwork and I just got the results today:

All IgE tests were negative and her IgE marker was very low. The GI doctor felt she was not a good candidate for IgE allergies.

Other results:

Iron 56 (30-160)
Iron binding capacity 408 (228-428)
Ferritin 23 (10-200)
Plasma Sodium 142 (135-145)
Plasma Pot. 3.9 (3.4-4.8)
Plasma chloride 108 (100-108)
Plasma Carbon diox. 24.8 (23.0-31.9)
Plasma anion gap 9 (3-15)
Calcium 9.2 (8.5-10.5)
Phos 4.5 (4.5-5.5)
Mag 2 (1.4-2)
Plasma creatine .64 (.30-1.0)
Plasma glucose 66 (70-110)
Total protein 6.7 (6-8.3)
Albumin 4.6 (3.3-5.0)
Globulin 2.1 (2.6-4.1)
Uric Acid 3.9 (2.3-6.6)
Total bilirubin .2 (0-1)
Alkaline phosphatase 170 (15-350)
Transaminase SGPT 25 (7-30)
Transaminase SGOT 33 (9-32)
Vid D 11 (33-100)
Thyroxine 9.7 (4.5-10.9)
Thyroid stim hormon 1.96 (.4-5.0)
zinc 50 (60-120)

He was not concerned about any of the values outside of the Ref Range except for Vit D & zinc. He said they are finding low vit D to be a marker for malabsorption and therefore its doubly concerning.

His recommendation is to do a scope (endoscopy & colonoscopy) to check for pancreatic insufficiency, relux damage, malabsorption, inflammatory disease, etc.

I'm really torn. He mentioned that she could have inflammatory disease, which would require anti-inflammatory medications for 6-12 months (longer if its looks like Crohns).

I feel there has to be a different answer although I'm very torn. I certainly don't want her to suffer but I find it hard to believe she's suffering from a deficiency of anti inflammatory meds. He said he doesn't necessarily believe in eliminating IgG foods b/c he thinks they are just symptoms of the problem. That there is some other reason the foods are bothering you (like inflammation).

Does anyone have any thoughts? This stuff is so hard. And DS is scheduled to see him in June. I can only imagine what he'll want to do with my small fry.

[kjbrown92]

The Vitamin D is pretty low.

The plasma glucose was a little low (hypoglycemia?)

Low Globulin: (from quick google search)
Nephrosis (A Condition in which the kidney does not filter the protein from the blood and it leaks into the urine)
Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency (Emphysema)
Acute hemolytic anemia
Liver dysfunction
Hypogammaglobulinemia/Agammaglobulinemia

Transaminase SGOT 33 (9-32)...
AST formerly was called serum glutamic oxaloacetic transaminase (SGOT). AST stands for aspartate aminotransferase. Low levels of AST are normally found in the blood. When body tissue or an organ such as the heart or liver is diseased or damaged, additional AST is released into the bloodstream.

But aspartate is one of those things on the GARD (glutamate aspartate restricted diet) in which dogtorj.net says milk, soy, corn, and gluten cause leaky gut and inflammation. Wow, how bizarre is that?

I'm in a quandary though. The doctor thinks the food intolerances are a symptom of inflammation? I think the inflammation is the symptom of food intolerance. Huh. That's a chicken-egg thing. If they're intolerant to foods and they are causing an inflammatory response (the ALCAT theory) then you have to go off them for the inflammation to go down. Isn't it like taking steroids yet continuing to stand in poison ivy and wonder why your rash isn't getting any better?

I'm probably not much help. Just trying to think out loud.

[FireWithin]

He seems to be very quickly jumping on the med route.
Even if it is Crohn's (not that I'm suggesting it is.) you cab do much more than meds.

Now you know her zinc and vitamin d is low. That is one place you can start.

I wish I could help more.

I will be watching.

[kjbrown92]

I didn't even see the zinc number. Does low zinc always mean high copper?

[chlobo]

I don't know if it does but her hair test showed high copper. I asked about that and he said one way to help the body free up copper (and hopefully excrete it) is by boosting zinc. He said that he thought a dose of 60mg might be where we start, which is very high, from what I've gathered. At least that's what PB said.

Of course we'd also supplement vit d. He said he'd like to get to the root of things, though. As in "why" is the vit d low? Is it due to diet? Or is it due to malabsorption.

I wish PB were around.

[Theloose]

Do you want to try and figure out detox pathways? I'm thinking (hoping) it's nutrient deficiencies that cause inflammation and intolerances both, and so yeah, eliminating the foods doesn't address the cause. Eating the foods does use up nutrients that are in short supply, though, possibly making the problem worse. But eliminating foods compromises nutrition and adds stress. And stress uses up nutrients too...

[chlobo]

I would love to figure out detox pathways. However, I seem to have impaired brain function lately, due to my own clogged detox pathways (I'm hopefully seeing someone about that on Thur).

But if there are questions I can answer, ask away!

[mtn.mama]

D and zinc sound like a fabulous place to start. You could try her with turmeric to work against inflammation. Has she had a comprehensive stool analysis done?

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by chlobo

So, my DD is 5 years old. She has been challenging in many ways since the beginning. She had her first two rounds of shots plus one additional shot at 9 months. None since. She had growth issues beginning at birth until about 8 months. We were encouraged to start solids early, which we did. During this time she was a different rash everyday. Body rashes, butt rashes, you name it, she had it. They continued to about 18 months. No one ever suggested eliminating foods so we didn't.

At first her poops seemed ok. But gradually, starting at about 2 years they got looser. Now her typical poop is loose, smelly and takes a while to get out (spends lots of time on the toilet). She started having behavior issues when she was around 4. We cut gluten/dairy out in January 08. We saw some improvement in the behavior but the poops never resolved. We also removed eggs for a while with no improvement. She also has somewhat dull hair and weak pealing nails. Her skin is very dry. She was on abx for 6 weeks last summer for lyme disease (had an engorged tick in her head) which didn't help things. Her hair test showed high copper & high lead.

We recently took her to a GI doctor who works with autistic kids in the hopes that he would be more "alternative".

He had us do a trial with digestive enzymes & S. Boulardii. We saw little difference on the dosage we were on.

He did bloodwork and I just got the results today:

All IgE tests were negative and her IgE marker was very low. The GI doctor felt she was not a good candidate for IgE allergies.

Other results:

Iron 56 (30-160)
Iron binding capacity 408 (228-428)
Ferritin 23 (10-200)
Plasma Sodium 142 (135-145)
Plasma Pot. 3.9 (3.4-4.8)
Plasma chloride 108 (100-108)
Plasma Carbon diox. 24.8 (23.0-31.9)
Plasma anion gap 9 (3-15)
Calcium 9.2 (8.5-10.5)
Phos 4.5 (4.5-5.5)
Mag 2 (1.4-2)
Plasma creatine .64 (.30-1.0)
Plasma glucose 66 (70-110)
Total protein 6.7 (6-8.3)
Albumin 4.6 (3.3-5.0)
Globulin 2.1 (2.6-4.1)
Uric Acid 3.9 (2.3-6.6)
Total bilirubin .2 (0-1)
Alkaline phosphatase 170 (15-350)
Transaminase SGPT 25 (7-30)
Transaminase SGOT 33 (9-32)
Vid D 11 (33-100)
Thyroxine 9.7 (4.5-10.9)
Thyroid stim hormon 1.96 (.4-5.0)
zinc 50 (60-120)

He was not concerned about any of the values outside of the Ref Range except for Vit D & zinc. He said they are finding low vit D to be a marker for malabsorption and therefore its doubly concerning.

His recommendation is to do a scope (endoscopy & colonoscopy) to check for pancreatic insufficiency, relux damage, malabsorption, inflammatory disease, etc.

I'm really torn. He mentioned that she could have inflammatory disease, which would require anti-inflammatory medications for 6-12 months (longer if its looks like Crohns).

I feel there has to be a different answer although I'm very torn. I certainly don't want her to suffer but I find it hard to believe she's suffering from a deficiency of anti inflammatory meds. He said he doesn't necessarily believe in eliminating IgG foods b/c he thinks they are just symptoms of the problem. That there is some other reason the foods are bothering you (like inflammation).

I am so impressed. I know you've been so stressed for so long, and you feel so worn down, but damn that's a great attitude.

I'd say that ferritin is low.

Does anyone have any thoughts? This stuff is so hard. And DS is scheduled to see him in June. I can only imagine what he'll want to do with my small fry.

I don't really know about kids and vitamin D. I'm sure my son and I (and probably DD, too, a bit) are low, and we don't have malabsorption issues, but it's also easier to see that our poop is fairly okay. Could she have a basic cholesterol problem (well, low cholesterol being a sign, I mean)? But again, you want someone looking at the cause of the inflammation, if that's the issue.

Did you bring in the hair test? Really, all of your hair tests? Cause I think that's got to be a big part of the problem. Lead is nasty. Copper too, and together?

Hey, if you need someone to work with, how far are you from PB? I bet from a nutrition/supplement side, she could do great, I'd think. Yes, I know it's a horrible assumption that people like me have, who have only lived in Western states, that all the Eastern seaboard is a 30-minute drive from each other. : But I get it all mixed up, I've never lived anywhere near the East Coast, no one in my family has. The closest was an aunt who lived somewhere in Pennsylvania for a couple years.

[Theloose]

Beet test?
Midline issues?

Not knowing what copper and lead do...
Weak nails and hair - low cysteine?
KP?
Chocolate cravings?

Asthma?
Joint issues? crackly joints?

[tanyalynn]

A few more thoughts... a stressed out liver (which seems to be part of high copper, people don't excrete it well, though low zinc is also part--my daughter had a somewhat stressed liver, less than this, I think, but I think it was related to my overstressed liver) could impair cholesterol formation and then you don't get a lot of D. Most people get most of their D from the sun--well, those of us who aren't making a lot of D in the sun will be a lot more deficient than the typical deficient person.

As a reference point, I'm giving my kids 25mg per day (15mg as a separate supp, 5mg in each of their multivits, usually 2 multivits/day per kid but at a different time of day). 60 mg is hefty, I'm thinking he wants that to make an impact in a fairly short time period.

I'd also consider emailing PB, ask if she's taking clients for whatever--homeopathy, nutrition, both at the same time, something else. She really seems to have a knack for piecing together things into a coherent whole. And if not, betcha she could recommend a couple HCPs who are really good. (but yeah, travel may be involved--like I said, I am so ignorant of distances on the East Coast).

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by chlobo

Her hair test showed high copper & high lead.

Other results:
Iron 56 (30-160)
Iron binding capacity 408 (228-428)
Ferritin 23 (10-200)
Plasma Sodium 142 (135-145)
Plasma Pot. 3.9 (3.4-4.8)

Calcium 9.2 (8.5-10.5)
Phos 4.5 (4.5-5.5)
Mag 2 (1.4-2)

Plasma glucose 66 (70-110)

Vid D 11 (33-100)
Thyroxine 9.7 (4.5-10.9)
Thyroid stim hormon 1.96 (.4-5.0)
zinc 50 (60-120)

He was not concerned about any of the values outside of the Ref Range except for Vit D & zinc. He said they are finding low vit D to be a marker for malabsorption and therefore its doubly concerning.

His recommendation is to do a scope (endoscopy & colonoscopy) to check for pancreatic insufficiency, reflux damage, malabsorption, inflammatory disease, etc.

I'm really torn. He mentioned that she could have inflammatory disease, which would require anti-inflammatory medications for 6-12 months (longer if its looks like Crohns).

I feel there has to be a different answer although I'm very torn. I certainly don't want her to suffer but I find it hard to believe she's suffering from a deficiency of anti inflammatory meds. He said he doesn't necessarily believe in eliminating IgG foods b/c he thinks they are just symptoms of the problem. That there is some other reason the foods are bothering you (like inflammation).

Does anyone have any thoughts? This stuff is so hard. And DS is scheduled to see him in June. I can only imagine what he'll want to do with my small fry.

What I'm seeing here from the results I've left above.
TSH is very slightly elevated (imo), but! it's basically useless for anything because he hasn't run any of the other necessary labs for proper thyroid analysis (so to speak) except for ferritin... The fact that her Thyroxine is high-ish with semi-high TSH and low ferritin says to me that there may be an issue with conversion from T4 to T3. How is your selenium? The fact that she's low in zinc doesn't help this suspicion... Then there's the fact that her hair copper is high, and people with Wilson's disease have impaired T4 to T3 conversion. Cause of Wilson's? High copper. The most effective treatment for Wilson's disease is apparently considered to be zinc salt... I am not saying that she has Wilson's, but the high copper may be a strong contributing factor for these results.
Regarding the sodium, potassium and (again, imo) low glucose results: this points to an adrenal gland which is struggling, which is significant in itself but, the question is why? Could be partly due to food issues, but what else is going on?
Vitamin D being so low with Calcium being so high says to me that she's using up her D trying to increase calcium levels... whoMe would say that's because of calcium ion channels being open due to high glutamate, I believe. I can't remember the causes for high glutamate...
Are you supplementing magnesium for her?
I have to wonder if she's getting enough in the way of manganese...
I did have a thought wrt Phos as well, but it totally left my mind.

Also, isn't lead (and all heavy metals for that matter) known to cause inflammation?

ETA: I should clarify that the CAUSE of Wilson's is not high copper but having high copper is a symptom which causes other problems...

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

I don't really know about kids and vitamin D. I'm sure my son and I (and probably DD, too, a bit) are low, and we don't have malabsorption issues, but it's also easier to see that our poop is fairly okay. Could she have a basic cholesterol problem (well, low cholesterol being a sign, I mean)? But again, you want someone looking at the cause of the inflammation, if that's the issue.

Did you bring in the hair test? Really, all of your hair tests? Cause I think that's got to be a big part of the problem. Lead is nasty. Copper too, and together?

Hey, if you need someone to work with, how far are you from PB? I bet from a nutrition/supplement side, she could do great, I'd think. Yes, I know it's a horrible assumption that people like me have, who have only lived in Western states, that all the Eastern seaboard is a 30-minute drive from each other. : But I get it all mixed up, I've never lived anywhere near the East Coast, no one in my family has. The closest was an aunt who lived somewhere in Pennsylvania for a couple years.

He didn't seem too interested in the hair tests other than to say that improving the zinc situation should help get rid of some of the copper. So I'm not exactly sure how non-allopathic he actually is.

I would happily drive the 2 hours to see PB once she hangs out her shingle. I am going to see the ND/Classical homeopath in Maine for myself & Adam on Thursday. Apparently, she does believe that some things can sometimes interfere with a remedy working (like screwed up nutrition, heavy metals, allergies). We'll see how that goes.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Beet test?
Midline issues?

Not knowing what copper and lead do...
Weak nails and hair - low cysteine?
KP?
Chocolate cravings?

Asthma?
Joint issues? crackly joints?

I'll try the beet test this week. Beets are a hard cell with her.

Her palate seems ok. Her tongue seems ok, although the doctor who clipped Adam said she *might* also have a posterior tie, just not as bad. Hasn't affected anything noticeable. She does/did have labial adhesions, which I'm told are a midline issue. And I think she has a thick labial frenulum that will need to be cut.

Weak hair & nails
KP - yes
Chocolate cravings - not necessarily
Asthma - no, but she has permacongestion (in her sinus') and also a persistent small cough
Haven't noticed creaking joints
Dry itchy skin
Dry lips

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

A few more thoughts... a stressed out liver (which seems to be part of high copper, people don't excrete it well, though low zinc is also part--my daughter had a somewhat stressed liver, less than this, I think, but I think it was related to my overstressed liver) could impair cholesterol formation and then you don't get a lot of D. Most people get most of their D from the sun--well, those of us who aren't making a lot of D in the sun will be a lot more deficient than the typical deficient person.

He's supposed to get back to me on a vit d dosage


As a reference point, I'm giving my kids 25mg per day (15mg as a separate supp, 5mg in each of their multivits, usually 2 multivits/day per kid but at a different time of day). 60 mg is hefty, I'm thinking he wants that to make an impact in a fairly short time period.

You're talking about zinc now, right?


I'd also consider emailing PB, ask if she's taking clients for whatever--homeopathy, nutrition, both at the same time, something else. She really seems to have a knack for piecing together things into a coherent whole. And if not, betcha she could recommend a couple HCPs who are really good. (but yeah, travel may be involved--like I said, I am so ignorant of distances on the East Coast).

Already did that earlier this afternoon

Great minds think alike

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Regarding the sodium, potassium and (again, imo) low glucose results: this points to an adrenal gland which is struggling, which is significant in itself but, the question is why? Could be partly due to food issues, but what else is going on?
Vitamin D being so low with Calcium being so high says to me that she's using up her D trying to increase calcium levels... whoMe would say that's because of calcium ion channels being open due to high glutamate, I believe. I can't remember the causes for high glutamate...
Are you supplementing magnesium for her?
I have to wonder if she's getting enough in the way of manganese...
I did have a thought wrt Phos as well, but it totally left my mind.

Also, isn't lead (and all heavy metals for that matter) known to cause inflammation?

ETA: I should clarify that the CAUSE of Wilson's is not high copper but having high copper is a symptom which causes other problems...

Well his thoughts on the low glucose was that the lab left the blood sitting out too long & that's what caused that result. So I guess we could re-check. I have a glucose meter so I could check her glucose at home.

Her blood level of Manganese is .8 (.4-.85) (sorry that was on the 2nd page)
Chromium <0.1 (<.3)

He totally didn't seemed concerned about metals. Whereas what I have gathered from PB is that sometimes if you *don't* address the metals you can't heal other things.

[tanyalynn]

Yes, I meant 25mg of zinc. Thoughts not matching typing speed lately.

If he isn't going to address the lead, I'd say keep moving on. The lead seems like a biggie for all of you, you need to deal with it, and if he's not there with that, then my vote is that he's not going to be really helpful.

But I think you can improve the situation with zinc and D. And maybe liver support? Not stuff to mobilize, just support liver function. Though if you've got a new person to talk to on Thursday, wait and see whether that person seems helpful, and what PB says about her availability, or if she's got recommendations for someone somewhat nearby. It's always helpful to get a personal rec.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Vitamin D being so low with Calcium being so high says to me that she's using up her D trying to increase calcium levels... whoMe would say that's because of calcium ion channels being open due to high glutamate, I believe. I can't remember the causes for high glutamate...

I'm not sure on that one - I think I have high glutamate, but my vit D isn't too bad, considering (it's still low, but not nearly as low as a bunch of people here) and my calcium is right in the mid-range.

Originally Posted by chlobo

I'll try the beet test this week. Beets are a hard cell with her.

Her palate seems ok. Her tongue seems ok, although the doctor who clipped Adam said she *might* also have a posterior tie, just not as bad. Hasn't affected anything noticeable. She does/did have labial adhesions, which I'm told are a midline issue. And I think she has a thick labial frenulum that will need to be cut.

Weak hair & nails
KP - yes
Chocolate cravings - not necessarily
Asthma - no, but she has permacongestion (in her sinus') and also a persistent small cough
Haven't noticed creaking joints
Dry itchy skin
Dry lips

KP, on the other hand, does say open calcium ion channels to me. And the two reasons I know of (so far) to cause that are high glutamate and/or low dietary calcium.

It sounds like the weak hair and nails is *not* due to cysteine deficiency, since there's KP, but that also means I'm out of my league, I only know the cysteine card for that one.

Permacongestion could be high sulfate combined with open calcium ion channels. Does she eat lots of sulfur foods?

Dry skin and lips, I don't really know. What comes to mind is vit A and riboflavin (B2). Is she taking vitamins?

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by chlobo

Well his thoughts on the low glucose was that the lab left the blood sitting out too long & that's what caused that result. So I guess we could re-check. I have a glucose meter so I could check her glucose at home.

Her blood level of Manganese is .8 (.4-.85) (sorry that was on the 2nd page)
Chromium <0.1 (<.3)

He totally didn't seemed concerned about metals. Whereas what I have gathered from PB is that sometimes if you *don't* address the metals you can't heal other things.

Hypoglycemia is a symptom of adrenal fatigue, which is why it stuck out to me.
The manganese result doesn't surprise me. Low zinc usually means high manganese...

[chlobo]

Does not eat a lot of high sulfur foods.

Only taking HVCLO & B12 right now.

I need to find a good children's multi that has no copper.