Oh lovely, shut up and Cigarettes

[ajsmom]

Thanks to Dr. Seuss' The Lorax, ds likes to say shut up. Thanks to watching actors smoke in White Christmas and seeing others do it, ds now wants to smoke. He's only 3 so I know he is clueless - He said that he wouldn't smoke the kind of dangerous ones but a different safe kind. I am not too worried about the smoking thing because he is learning a lot lately about smog, pollution, solar power and energy (Mommy is hydrogen poisonous?)...

But the shut up thing is a bit harder. He loves the power of language and I want him to use it but eek! Now I love the message in the Lorax but I wanna crown Dr. Seuss for some of his choices!

I know he will figure it out but he just now said shut up behind me when I asked him not to. I can't believe I then took his favorite new Tonka grader away (just bought today) for one minute. Oooops, I realized he is skipping his nap today and is just trying to stay awake and he does this by any means possible including inappropriate behavior. I should have seen it coming. Oh well, he's fine now. Will I be? Eventually.

What are good strategies for curbing the use of inappropriate words? He is very interested in rules and laws right now so I'd like to use this to include proper behavior which he really gets into. Any ideas?

Rebecca

[Marsupialmom]

Shut up is far better than D**n and/or s**t.

It will go away. Maybe put the Lorax up for a little while.

[Liz]

Originally posted by Marsupialmom
Shut up is far better than D**n and/or s**t.

Not in my book. Sh*t is just excrement and d*mn, well, I'm not religious so it doesn't bother me although I still discourage it. Shut up makes my blood boil. Shut up is like a slap in the face. Shut up is "You have nothing worth while to say". Of course, a three year old doesn't realise any of this.

My three year old experimented with it. I just explained that I really didn't like "shut up". I don't think I went into a lot of detail. When he tried it out I just kind of gave him a warning look but didn't take it to seriously because he was just playing. He never says it anymore and catches me if I say it. In my own defence I never say it to someone, just like "She started talking and just wouldn't shut up." And he'll say: "Mummy, you shouldn't say that!"

[TiredX2]

DS recieved Finding Nemo for Christmas and DD immediately started saying, "I hate you" (Nemo says that to his dad). Finding Nemo went away for 10 days and so did the phrase (though it seems to be back now).

Good luck,
Kay

[winema]

I feel the same about the shut up thing... My husband doesn't really say it, but He also doesn't get why it bothers me. My almost 4 year old has experimented with cursing since he was just 3 bc we have a disabled man who lives with us and curses in his room sometimes and Ezra hears it, as well as the fact that I do not always control myself well when I trip over the dogs or toys. When I hear him say something, I tell him that there isn't really anything wrong with the words (I try to save "wrong" for things that truly are evil...) but that some people really don't like them and are offended and that it is ok to say them around mommy or daddy but not around anyone else. That seemed to work as I have never heard him say anything around my very Christian (but ex-hippies who would prob. understand) parents or my conservative in-laws! At least if he ever does do it around them we can always blame it on the guy who lives w/ us! Ha ha. I can't help it, though, I get way more upset when I hear someone say shut up than cursing and I hope I never hear him say it! I am going to use Liz's definition to my husband if it ever comes up again (she said it is "you have nothing worthwhile to say"). By the way, I have been told "be Quiet!" in the same voice as "shut up" and felt very hurt. Am I too sensitive? Do we need to teach our children more about how your tone and demeanor show what you mean than exactly what the content is? I was just thinking about how my dh says things like "Your booty is so big" and I know that he is paying me a compliment by the fond tone of voice glint of admiration and lust in his eye so it is definitely a skill we need to be able to encode and decode feelings w/ words and body lang. And it can be a dirty trick to be so literal and only word oriented , as in "Whatwas wrong with that? I said be quiet, not shut up." Interesting thread. Winema

[ajsmom]

Out of the mouth of babes...

This morning he told me that shut up and stupid were against the law! Oh dear...

He really loves language so I know this will be fun. I think once he gets finished with The Lorax book this will fade.

He's just figured out what a tank is and wants to know about them and why people ride in them. (I told him you ride inside vs. a tractor where you ride on top.) He's seeing them everywhere!

We almost let him watch Finding Nemo over the holidays but it didn't happen and now I am glad. He really doesn't watch fiction programs but I know that will change too.

It's so-o-o-o-o complicated,
Rebecca

[srain]

This doesn't help much once the phrase has already been heard, but we edit books of anything we don't like. "Please go" works just as well as "shut up" in The Lorax.

As for the smoking: my 3yo son has been actively building Tinkertoy smokestacks for the express purpose of making pollution for about a year now. At first we ignored it; when he kept it up we played along by pretending to be the EPA or Hayduke; lately he's been playing that game independently most of the time so we're not involved. We suspect it's not a sign of him becoming a future Exxon executive.

[ajsmom]

Dh is reading the Pooh Sticks Story...

So perhaps The Lorax will lose its allure.

I goofed up because we usually change words too but I wasn't paying attention and yikes he just grabbed on to that phrase.

He is also reading words now so he asks what some words are when he sees them or he just reads them if he thinks he knows what they are, usually he does. I can't believe all the words he recognizes and some he guesses correctly on the first try if he has enough other visual information. This is so great but we'll get to that point when he will read these words himself and then we'll have more fun things to discuss.

Ds likes me to build Lincoln Log Buildings JUST so he can demolish them. He won't build with blocks or Duplo either. The only thing he builds are machines made from a set of gears someone gave us. He builds train-snowplows, a traction engine and he said he designed and then built the ax hacker (o-o-o-o The Lorax). They are lovely machines too.

My maiden name is Studebaker so maybe it's in the genes!

[LuvMy2Kidz]

Perhaps you could just give him different words to use? Like, "please be quiet?"

[levar]

I am pretty strict as all the language stuff goes. The words dont bother me. The context does. "Oh isnt *That* just Precious..." vs "Please go cleanup the dog shit before the guests arrive" for example. So we focus on context and talking/behaving "nice" not just words.

We have gone through Hate, Shit, Oh God, and are currently busy with 'name calling' words like Silly and Stupid. Additionally we are dealing with "Umpf" and "Argh" etc. If it is a swear or name call etc we just say "dont say xyz, say abc instead". But if he continues we count 1-2-3 and timeout. AND we not only remind him but ourselves since we firmly believe in leading by example. [I am terribly guilty personally about the "oh mi gad" being a product of the 80s myself.] I also treat other kids in our care the same. Saying "please dont say xyz, try saying abc instead, it's nicer" etc.

As for cigarretes [and drugs? eventually] we are pretty straight forward. Aunt Beth smokes. And she smells bad. Do *you* want to smell bad? Then dont smoke, it stinks. That had a much better effect on me as a child [Grandpa] than seeing the nic-filled lung-slice [Do it for your health?] ever did.

PS. I *did* make one comment about health and cigarrettes that Taylor *did* take to heart though. The local zoo is 100% non-smoking but we see people by the restrooms smoking all the time. Taylor was asking about the no smoking sign that happened to be right next to the lady smoking. So I said [admittedly in a VERY loud voice] that sign says No Smoking and when he asked why no smoking I said Because the animals will get VERY sick from the second hand smoke. Now when ever he sees someone smoking in public he asks me if they're maiking the animals sick. I say yes.

[flutemandolin]

Originally posted by srain

As for the smoking: my 3yo son has been actively building Tinkertoy smokestacks for the express purpose of making pollution for about a year now. At first we ignored it; when he kept it up we played along by pretending to be the EPA or Hayduke; lately he's been playing that game independently most of the time so we're not involved. We suspect it's not a sign of him becoming a future Exxon executive.

That is too funny!

[Suzannah]

I am an English teacher and mama to 3.5 DD. She says things sometimes that I would prefer she doesn't say, but, as I also tell my students, there are no "good" or "bad" words. All words are created equal, it's just that some words make people unhappy or feel bad when you use them (like telling a friend to "shut up") and so it's best to try to use words that make people feel good or are neutral. I had a student in class say "crap" (not, IMHO, particularly evil, but not really appropriate for school) and when I gave the class the good/bad word speech the bad language dried up. Even slang.

I think making a big deal out of it is a sure-fire way to have it follow you around until you die.

Just a thought.

[chicagomom]

Ugh. Struggling with this too w/our 4 yo ds. D*!#m and stupid and 'You're a big meanie' as well as 'I hate you' and the one that really gets me: 'I wish you would die.' The swear words are slowly becoming more infrequent - we talked with him about how much some words upset people and and sent him to his room a few times to calm down.

But the 'I wish you would die' and 'I hate you' still come up quite a bit. (We also recently rented Nemo - funny you mentioned that. Maybe this is where the 'I hate you' came from). Anyone dealing with this?

[ajsmom]

Oh Suzanah, it's following me right now!

I guess I need to ignore it all completely because any discussion we have about these words just gets him going and I know he is saying these most of the time to see what I will do.

Here's my concern, he hasn't said any rude words to others yet. What do you all do when this happens?

Now I am so glad we never watched Finding Nemo...

I took The Lorax back to the library a couple of weeks ago. Then, the other night I came home to find dh and ds printing out the whole story from the Lorax website!!

[Rhonwyn]

Shut up is not allowed in our house.

When my children have used inappropriate words like shut up or stupid, we tell them that we do not use those words in our family and if it continues, there will be consequences. We explain that some things are acceptable in some families and not acceptable in others. All families have different rules.

With my son, when he discovered curse words, we used fines - a quarter for each bad word. The trick was, he could fine us too! Whoever caught the offender got to keep the fine. My son who very carefully saves his money was never fined and never said another curse word though he did earn a few quarters from my husband! With my daughter it was the word stupid. Everything and everyone was stupid. We explained to her that the word was not acceptable and that she would be fined a piece of candy everytime she used it (it was after Halloween so she had a good supply) this worked great and she stopped using the word. We don't watch TV, videos or movies so I haven't had to worry about them picking up stuff from media.

You might want to consider taking away media time as a consequence of using words you don't want him to use. Whatever you do, with a 3 year old it is better if the consequence is imediate, like taking away candy or a quarter or a toy (for a limited time). Whatever you think is appropriate and will work for your child. It is your home and it is your right to decide what is appropriate and what is not appropriate.

[layla]

The Lorax is such an awesome book with such a great environmental message! I always tell my dh that I want to send a copy to Pres. Bush! Maybe when the shut up part comes, if you forget to censor it, say something like, "Wow, that wasn't a nice thing to say, was it? That Once-ler is a big ol' meany!" I also tell my children, as far as language goes, that they can choose to use "mean" language when they are grown ups, but I hope they won't ever want to. I also tell them taht children (or anyone) shouldn't use mean language because it makes other people feel really bad and they wouldn't like it if someone made them feel really bad. My husband quit smoking almost one year ago (he never smoked in our home or near our children!) and we make a big deal about how aweful it is to start and how much Daddy loves us enough to quit and be healthier for us.

[halah]

Originally posted by TiredX2
DS recieved Finding Nemo for Christmas and DD immediately started saying, "I hate you" (Nemo says that to his dad). Finding Nemo went away for 10 days and so did the phrase (though it seems to be back now).

Good luck,
Kay

I got my son the Finding Nemo readalong CD and yesterday he said, "I hate you, Dad!" to dh. I gasped so loud he immediately ran in his room! When I asked him where he learned that and he told me Nemo said it, my blood boiled!

I can't help it. I know it's not a bad word and the world as Disney presents it has real conflicts and blah blah, but my son would never have picked that up--not yet anyway--if it weren't for a CD book supposedly for children. We don't use that word in our house. I have enough teaching and explaining to do for a 3 year old all day without Disney Corporation adding to my load.

But of course every generation has its gaffes. I'm glad I got the lowdown on the Lorax before buying it for ds--it's been on my list. At this age, I guarantee you the only thinks he would glom onto would be the "Shut up!" and the machine that eats up the trees. He'd want one, much to my chagrin. :

[ajsmom]

That's why we don't do Disney

Ds barely remembers the name of that mouse! Over New Year's we went to SIL's house (no kids) and before we went BIL told us he bought Finding Nemo for ds to watch. I told him "we'll see" and then later said that maybe when he's older. I say he doesn't like fiction, which is true because he may watch something once but not again if it was too intense for him. He even stands next to the kitchen and looks or goes away from the parts of videos he likes if a part of it is too much for him.

Someone left a snack bowl at our house with Bambi on the lid. Now he wants to know all about Bambi - I told him his mother died in a forest fire but I think she was shot - I was 2 when the movie came out and my parents took me to the drive-in to see it. He wants to know what happened next after Bambi's mother died...Thank goodness for Thumper.

Now ds is saying, "Bold Ass Word" I think, once in a long while. I say I don't understand what you are saying can you tell where you heard that and he isn't sure and has no idea what he is saying. He repeats EVERYTHING he hears so it's just another phrase to him... I hope he forgets it soon since we never have said anything like that here.

Ladies - I have explained how these words can hurt others feeling and he KNOWS and yet, he loves to slip them out so for now I am ignoring it if he's just babbling on and not using it in any context.

I took EST seminars a LONG time ago and there was a whole part about how profanity is just words that have been given power and that they are just words. It was great to watch very timid people start yelling all these words that they would never dare say intentionally. This is why I am trying not to give ds the look or make a big deal about it. He must learn about them but I don't want it to become forbidden fruit - too juicy to pass up.