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Prostaglandins and EFAs

post #1 of 42
Thread Starter 
I know this is really relevant and important. But how do the pieces fit together?

Prostaglandins regulate the inflammatory response, and are how the omega-3's and omega-6's interact.

There are also links to salicylates, allergies, celiac, and glutamate.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...e/message/5532
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.co...al-Report.html
http://www.aapsj.org/articles/aapsj0...36_figure2.jpg
http://www.ionchannels.org/showabstr...p?pmid=9440691
http://www.vitasearch.com/get/PC/exp...2-24-08-08.pdf
http://www.tuberose.com/Inflammation..._&_Repair.html
http://www.raysahelian.com/prostaglandin.html
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/omega-6-000317.htm
http://westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/tripping.html

post #2 of 42
Haven't looked yet, will try to later. Subbing.
Also, aren't prostaglandins what is responsible for something wrt birthing?
post #3 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacquelineR View Post
Haven't looked yet, will try to later. Subbing.
Also, aren't prostaglandins what is responsible for something wrt birthing?
Yeah, something to do with sperm, and something to do with the initiation of labor.

I suppose if it weren't so complicated, it'd be better known and we wouldn't have to teach it to ourselves
post #4 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
I suppose if it weren't so complicated, it'd be better known and we wouldn't have to teach it to ourselves
What would be the fun in that?
post #5 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacquelineR View Post
What would be the fun in that?
Yes. Curing food intolerances is definitely one of those things you need to do to keep life interesting. How boring would life be if you could just eat whatever you wanted, go anywhere without concern, do fun projects like knitting or sewing or art or whatever, just cause you need something to fill your time since it's not all spent on the computer... Too carefree, if you ask me

That's what I want to do with the next kid. And so I get to learn all this now : It really do love it, though
post #6 of 42
On the other hand, if we weren't trying to "Cure" food intolerances, we wouldn't have learned all these other things which are interconnected... Such as the mental illness aspects, the heart and stroke connections, the thyroid and adrenal connections.... Things that have the potential to be so much more than "just" "curing food intolerances" not just for ourselves and the people who are effected by the food intolerance but our entire families.
And it's been an incredibly interesting (and, imo, fun) ride so far with great company. So I won't complain.
post #7 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacquelineR View Post
On the other hand, if we weren't trying to "Cure" food intolerances, we wouldn't have learned all these other things which are interconnected... Such as the mental illness aspects, the heart and stroke connections, the thyroid and adrenal connections.... Things that have the potential to be so much more than "just" "curing food intolerances" not just for ourselves and the people who are effected by the food intolerance but our entire families.
And it's been an incredibly interesting (and, imo, fun) ride so far with great company. So I won't complain.
But you see, if the whole subject weren't so complicated, then all those other issues would be solved problems as well. The world would be a better place.

I guess everything has to start somewhere, and the beginning is always the complicated part - otherwise someone would have done it already, right?

to a future devoid of health problems?
post #8 of 42
subbing so i remember to read all the links later. right now, lily and i are making her a wig. a red wig, dyed with beet juice.
post #9 of 42
here! here! JR - totally agree.

I want to get on the prostaglandin bandwagon, but I promised myself I will write something on my thread and talk a bit about glutamate.
If the Backyardigans hold out long enough, I will be back.
post #10 of 42
Subbing too! Loving the conversation already.
post #11 of 42
So far I only read the second link, but it sounds like supplementing CLO should only be used when needed to correct big deficiencies in A & D (or in acute situations involving healing from illness - for instance, overcoming viral infection). Short of paying $30 for the full report, where do you get only DHA for omega 3's and AA for omega 6's?

ETA: Hoping something helps translate the figure in the third link and the article in the fourth. I am seriously lost.
post #12 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders View Post
So far I only read the second link, but it sounds like supplementing CLO should only be used when needed to correct big deficiencies in A & D (or in acute situations involving healing from illness - for instance, overcoming viral infection). Short of paying $30 for the full report, where do you get only DHA for omega 3's and AA for omega 6's?
I don't know about the DHA, but AA from butter and egg yolks. Oh right, a bunch of people here can't do those I paid for the report, I'll let you know when I get it and read it
post #13 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
I don't know about the DHA, but AA from butter and egg yolks. Oh right, a bunch of people here can't do those I paid for the report, I'll let you know when I get it and read it
There are many times I am reminded how grateful I am that we only deal with food additives and gluten here. So, making sure we have eggs and butter will at least ensure we are getting adequate AA. I guess I'm off to research DHA. From the sound of the article, I feel like dropping all CLO supplementing. Now to figure out how to make sure we are getting enough vitamin D (I don't like the sun as we all burn) and A. And thanks in advance for any synopsis.
post #14 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders View Post
There are many times I am reminded how grateful I am that we only deal with food additives and gluten here. So, making sure we have eggs and butter will at least ensure we are getting adequate AA. I guess I'm off to research DHA. From the sound of the article, I feel like dropping all CLO supplementing. Now to figure out how to make sure we are getting enough vitamin D (I don't like the sun as we all burn) and A. And thanks in advance for any synopsis.
That's funny, cause my first response is to *start* taking CLO.
http://www.vitasearch.com/get/PC/exp...2-24-08-08.pdf
I forgot to add this link, adding it now. They talk about supping huge amounts of fish oil to cancel out salicylate-induced inflammation, including sunburn.
post #15 of 42
But should you sup with just fish oil and skip the high vitamin A&D & get those elsewhere? I am so confused.
post #16 of 42
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I'm confused, too. But now my test is done : so I can read up in all my spare moments without guilt

I'm going to post my specific questions, and answer them as I figure them out:

1) what are the different types of prostaglandins, and where do they come from? how do you get one vs another?

2) what do they DO?

3) how do they interact with glutamate?

4) can you affect your balance in order to change your inflammatory response, or is that just a salicylate/leukotriene thing?

5) will forcing myself to take CLO be a good bandaid for high glutamate until I can get my ammonia levels down?
post #17 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
1) what are the different types of prostaglandins, and where do they come from? how do you get one vs another?
Prostaglandins are like hormones that act directly on a cell. They're made from fatty acids. Arachidonic acid (AA or ARA) is the (a?) precursor.

AA can be made into either leukotrienes (LTs) or prostaglandins (PGs). Salicylates (sals) inhibit the process that converts them to prostaglandins (COX), and you end up with a bunch of leukotrienes (via LOX).

PGs are either inflammatory or antiinflammatory.
LTs are inflammatory.

http://www.tuberose.com/Inflammation..._&_Repair.html
Quote:
In the short term, the pro-inflammatory agents are a good thing because they act as a protective mechanism for the body. However, if they hang around too long, too much leukotrienes and PGE2 will circulate in the body. There are three parts to this inflammatory cascade. Two of them are desirable and one is undesirable. Linoleic acid is converted in gamma linoleic acid, dihomogammalinoleic acid and finally, prostaglandin E1. Prostaglandin E1 is a desirable anti-inflammatory agent. Alpha linolenic acid is converted into desirable eicopentanoic acid and prostaglandin E3. The membrane phospholipids, through an enzyme called phospholipase, is converted into arachidonic acid and ultimately, the leukotrienes and prostaglandin E2, which are pro-inflammatory agents, are undesirable.

Over-the-counter Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs (NSAIDs) and steroid drugs (prescription), once believed to be the treatments of choice for pain, are now recognized as destructive roadblocks to recovery. However, the pharmaceutical companies will not tell you this, your doctor may not know, and well-meaning friends may offer chemical solutions that actually work against your body's own healing powers. NSAIDs and Steroids block the chemical pathways, stopping the arachidonic acid and the prostaglandin E2 from being released. Unfortunately, they shut down the good guys as well as the bad guys and bring the total arachidonic cascade to a halt.
(dh and dd got back from the store)
post #18 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
That's funny, cause my first response is to *start* taking CLO.
http://www.vitasearch.com/get/PC/exp...2-24-08-08.pdf
I forgot to add this link, adding it now. They talk about supping huge amounts of fish oil to cancel out salicylate-induced inflammation, including sunburn.
This, from the second link in your OP, is what made me think that maybe CLO supplementation isn't the best idea.

Quote:
Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) occurs in fish products but is probably not a normal constituent of the mammalian body and in excess it interferes with essential AA metabolism.

In other healthy adults, however, the requirement is infinitesimal if it exists at all. The best sources of EFAs are liver, butter, and egg yolks, especially from animals raised on pasture. During pregnancy, lactation, and childhood, small amounts of cod liver oil may be useful to provide extra DHA, but otherwise this supplement should be used only when needed to obtain fat-soluble vitamins.
From the sounds of the article, if you supplement with CLO, you will be potentially getting more EPA than is beneficial, and potentially causing problems with AA metabolism with excess EPA in the body.

But, from the latest link, it sounds that the omega 3's found in fish oil (and therefore cod liver oil) is beneficial. It doesn't seem to make any distinction between EPA and DHA in the fish oil, and seems to treat AA as potentially bad. So, if AA isn't good for the body, then I could see wanting to supplementing EPA, as it seems that it does not allow the body to metabolize the AA. But, from the second link, AA is essential to the body.

So, is it safe to say that we probably get way too much AA in our bodies as it is, so using fish oil/cod liver oil is beneficial because it helps us not only clean up the excess AA from our diets, but also because EPA and DHA work together to help reduce inflamation? (I knew omega 3's were good at reducing inflamation though didn't understand why; I really didn't know that they also have a preventative affect against sunburn. That is something I need to research some more. )

And just for discussion, I looked up the contents of vitamin A, D, and EPA and DHA in one serving of Blue Ice high vitamin CLO:

Quote:
One-half teaspoon provides: Vitamin A 5750 IUs EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) 145 – 375 mg Vitamin D 575 IUs DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) 150 – 360 mg
From the last article, it sounds like approximately 5-10 servings of the HVCLO would give the same effects the researchers found, based on the amount they gave their patients.

Quote:
Each 1 gram capsule contains 180mg of EPA and 120mg of DHA.
(They gave 10 capsules to their patients divided in 3 doses throughout the day.)
post #19 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by chlobo View Post
But should you sup with just fish oil and skip the high vitamin A&D & get those elsewhere? I am so confused.
See, for me, I've never had a problem with the A&D in CLO. We do, though, switch between HVCLO (Blue Ice) and non-high vitamin CLO (Kirkman Labs).
post #20 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Prostaglandins are like hormones that act directly on a cell. They're made from fatty acids. Arachidonic acid (AA or ARA) is the (a?) precursor.

AA can be made into either leukotrienes (LTs) or prostaglandins (PGs). Salicylates (sals) inhibit the process that converts them to prostaglandins (COX), and you end up with a bunch of leukotrienes (via LOX).

PGs are either inflammatory or antiinflammatory.
LTs are inflammatory.

http://www.tuberose.com/Inflammation..._&_Repair.html


(dh and dd got back from the store)
So ... omega 6's are seen as inflammatory in nature. From this article:
Quote:
Eicosanoids formed from arachidonic acid (AA, the omega-6 family) have the potential to increase blood pressure, inflammation, platelet aggregation, thrombosis, vasospasm, allergic reactions, and cell proliferation (growth). Those formed from eicosapentanoic acid (EPA, the omega-3 family) have opposing affects. Omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids are not interchangeable, and humans must consume both.
But, from what you wrote, it sounds like maybe AA is seen as antagonistic because of the affects of salicylates?
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