Phimosis - Page 2

[eepster]

Originally Posted by Rockprincess

The ballooning was not momentary and normal, it was very exaggerated and the urine left the foreskin balloon at a much slower rate than it entered from the urethra. This is a big problem, it can cause repeated UTIs.

This is perfectly normal. The UTI thing is a red hearing.

The rate in Canada is currently 10%, but this is reccent. Just a generation ago circ was just as common in anglophone areas of Canada as it was in the US. My DH was born in Canada in the early 70's. His mother who barely spoke english (and no french at all) was asked to sign the concent without being informed that it was surgery. She was ery upset afterwards when she discovered what happened.

Many of today's Drs went to medical school then. The teachers in medical school are mostly from back then. You can not count on a Canadian Dr to be that much better informed than a US Dr. (Though I would expect the francophone Drs are a bit better.)

[Quirky]

To add to the information given above:

The preputial space, the space between the prepuce (foreskin) and glans (head of the penis) that develops as a boy becomes retractable, secretes lysozyme, a beneficial enzyme that is anti-bacterial.

Also, urine is sterile when it leaves the body. In fact, the advice given to intact soldiers in the field when baths aren't readily available is to pee while holding the foreskin closed, to swish the pee around inside the preputial space and wash everything out.

It is not necessary to retract and wash the head of the penis regularly for fear of infection developing, any more than it is necessary to wash the inside of your vagina. The intact penis is basically self-cleaning.

So there's just really no emergency in terms of "we must get in there to clean or he's going to get repeated infections."

Also, your doctor is misinformed in stating that circumcision is the "cure" for phimosis. That's like saying we should cut a girl's labia off if they become fused (which is a very common problem). There are many, many steps far short of foreskin amputation that can solve the phimosis issue (if there is in fact "true" phimosis which I, too, very much doubt).

Steroid creams could be applied to the foreskin to hasten the loosening process so that it retracts more easily.

Stretching exercises could be done -- although I would be very reluctant to do those myself as a parent, I believe it would be better than forcing my son to suffer an unnecessary circumcision.

At the absolute most, a dorsal slit could be made in the foreskin which would preserve most of its functionality.

But again, I have to say, in agreement with the above posters -- circumcision is absolutely not the answer. EVEN IF your son were undergoing repeat UTIs (which is apparently not the case). Circumcision is no more an appropriate treatment for boys than it is for girls suffering similar ailments, because the foreskin is not disposable.

I hope you can find some answers, and I also hope you will be open to questioning your doctor more, because despite the fact that you live in Canada, he has absolutely given you misinformation.

A good source for good information is www.cirp.org, which is full of medical journal articles on the foreskin and circumcision.

You should especially read through this page on phimosis:

http://www.cirp.org/library/treatment/phimosis/

[RiverSky]

Originally Posted by Quirky

You should especially read through this page on phimosis:

http://www.cirp.org/library/treatment/phimosis/

That's a fantastic link!!! So informative!

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by Rockprincess

It is pus. There is a ton of it, there is no question. He has a raging fever. I am not questioning the existence of infection, and if you saw my child you would not either.

Ok, so I wanted to chime in with some thoughts. First, based on what you've shared I agree there is an infection of some kind. You've sighted fever which I think makes it clear. I might ask if the pus smelled, if infected I would expected the smell to be nauseating. I won't question this diagnoses either but do we know if it is a UTI or some other type of infection?

Originally Posted by Rockprincess

Once the foreskin has retracted, cleaning the glans and under the foreskin is indeed required. Mild soap and water are ususally all that is required. As I indicated above, my son's foreskin has NATURALLY retracted already and bacteria can therefore be harboured between the glans and foreskin. And obviously is, at the moment.

I am not going to quibble much on this point except to say as an intact guy myself, I have gone long stretches without washing under the foreskin. This is usually when I don't have access to showers or baths which has happened from time to time and I've never had any problem with that. Usually it's other parts of my body that feel or show their wear first as it were. Though I do wash that part when I am in the shower I don't personally consider it critical.

It also seems to me that you're doing it the right way, letting him do it. As far as ballooning that is normal but what you want to watch for is if the flow of urine is very restricted, which I think you said it was but to a point I wouldn't worry at all about it.

Originally Posted by Rockprincess

Please could you calm down and stop being so aggressive with me. I am not about to circumcize my child without making sure it is the last resort. Someone told me that people here had some good information about other possible therapies and that is what I am hoping to hear about.

Understand that this is a function of the fact that we often get request for help from people who, while trying to do their best (which is why they are here), have incomplete information. This is usually because their doctor didn't provide or doesn't know all the options. This is more frustration than aggression, we are just trying to help you that's all. I don't think you're in that group I think you've come with a better sense of what's going on than others.

Now to your options. I will provide these to consider only if all other conservative treatments fail. With out knowing the situation first hand I can't say exactly what I would do so I appreciate your predicament. First, read the link that Quirky gave you that has a lot of good information. In addition to 'gentle stretching' there are steroid creams which work in most cases. But if for some reason that doesn't work or your urologist is leaning on circumcision I would get at least two other opinions and also strongly consider sutureless prepuceplasty. It's the least invasive surgical option, you will allow him to retain the foreskin and it will function normally. Read about it here:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2490/8/6

It's a better option than circumcision but should still be the last resort. I hope that helps you a bit.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Ballooning no matter how bad will not cause problems it is part of the normal seperation process.

Here is a link you should look over.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=764732

And no you dont need to clean under the foreskin once it is retractable at all. The only person who should do so is the owner of the penis and if he cant do it on his own it dosnt need doing. This can cause problems.

I am very concerned about your ds having scare tissue due to the "stretching" done to him as an infant. No dr who knows what they are doing would do that to an infant unless he was 100% unable to pee. No more than a dr would stretch the urethra of a infant girl.

[Rockprincess]

Fellow Traveller, thank you for the information.

I will read the links provided.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by Rockprincess

twice as an infact his doctor had to do a minor procedure to widen the opening for him. As an infant it's not a huge issue because the unretracted foreskin can't harbour bacteria.

I'm so sorry, this ignorant doctors was HARMING your son physically and emotionally

[robertandenith]

with the quoted above me, to me, it sounds that whatever the doctor did to your babe as an infant, did damage on your babe and now he has these infections. I highly recommend you to get in contact with Marilyn Milos, she will help you no doubt.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Something that is very important to understand. The tip of the foreskin is a sphincter just like the anus. When not in use it closes down very very tight like pin hole tight. When the boy urinates it lets loose to allow the urine to flow.

Stretching this sphincter by force can cause scar tissue to form making later retraction difficult.

Can you imagine someone forcing open your anus? well that is the kind of pain that the little guy felt when the Dr did that to him :

It is very important to do tons of research before allowing a Dr. to do any type of treatment on their ds. Yes dr are supposed to know but when it comes to the intact penis they are not taught how to deal with it.

I am not blaming the OP at all here this is the dr's fault :

I pray daily that some day that stories like this dont exist any more


I cannot stress enough that you need to find a Dr. who actually knows what he/she is talking about. For your ds's sake.

Doctorsopposingcirc has a site where you can get in touch with dr's who are truly up to date on all the intact penis issues. Usually the issues like this one are really ignorent dr/healthcare worker issues.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

Something that is very important to understand. The tip of the foreskin is a sphincter just like the anus. When not in use it closes down very very tight like pin hole tight. When the boy urinates it lets loose to allow the urine to flow.

I cannot stress enough that you need to find a Dr. who actually knows what he/she is talking about. For your ds's sake.

Doctorsopposingcirc has a site where you can get in touch with dr's who are truly up to date on all the intact penis issues. Usually the issues like this one are really ignorent dr/healthcare worker issues.

:::

[hakunangovi]

Hi, Rockprincess, I live in Alberta too. Please read the links that others have provided, especialy those at www.cirp.org . It is a wonderful website put together by a man who lives in Calgary. Please , please be wary of any advice that you get from a urologist who promotes any kind of invasive procedure. Even here there are many who only know how to wield a scalpel - I personaly know two boys who were circumcised unnecessarily.
Good luck and I hope your Ds recovers very soon.