Do your children treat you well?

[linz2491]

Ok I am just starting to read the unconditional parent so bear with me I haven't finished it. Please don't flame I am not knocking gd..I truly want to find a better way then what our house is like now.
Some of the stuff just sounds so out there and passive. It feels like the kids are going to grow up thinking the world revolves around them and that they can act any way they want.
Like, If my 3 year old is screaming bloody murder because I am not going to fill his bowl of oatmeal to the top with maple syrup (everything has to be to the TOP, so I use the smallest tupperware I have) I don't have the right to put him in his room because I am teaching him I only love him when he is being good? HOw about i am teaching him that people expect that he should care about the peoples feelings around him and that there are ways to act in public?

Do your kids treat you like doormats? (ok that sounds bad, right now my 3 year old totally does and it is making me miserable and I want to be able to enjoy my children, but partly because of his behaviours it is hard to enjoy any of my kids.)

Help me to understand.

[LuxPerpetua]

We've been into Unconditional Parenting since the beginning as well as Consensual Living. My dd is nearly 3.5, and I don't feel like she treats me like a doormat at all. I will say that from very early on we got used to having to "think outside the box" and coming up with really creative solutions to problems. Now that she's old enough she helps us find a mutually agreeable solution. Sometimes she can by tyrannical, sometimes she can be adorable, sometimes she can be totally frustrating, sometimes totally wonderful--but that is just how 3 year olds are, I think. I actually think that showing our kids that we love them unconditionally (the point of Kohn's book) helps keep them from being self-centered as they grow older. I think you have to experience empathy to be able to feel that toward others. A bit anecdotal but my mother comes from a very conditional love-type family (complete with shaming and physical punishment), and she and all of her siblings are incredibly egocentric and narrow-minded. They are not charitable, nor can they cannot fathom how others could possibly have a thought or desire that they do not have. Do I believe that this is a result of their upbringing? Absolutely.

With my child I usually view acting out as symptom of an underlying problem that she cannot verbalize (perhaps she's tired or cranky or bored, or whatever). I honor her feelings by getting down on her level and listening to her. I do everything possible to come up with a solution that we are both happy with. For instance, in the case that you cite with the oatmeal, I'd probably first try something like filling the bowl to the top with fruit. If that wasn't okay then I'd try putting it in a mug or something shallower so that it would naturally fill up faster. If that still didn't work, I'd ask her if she had any ideas or if she wanted a yogurt or something else instead. If none of those things were acceptable and she continued to get upset, I'd get at her eye level and tell her how sorry I was that she was unhappy with her breakfast, and again ask her if she had any ideas. DD is remarkably adept at coming up with good solutions, so I've never had this fail.

I'm really sorry that you seem so stressed out right now. I only have one 3 year old but I can imagine how difficult it must be to have to care for other children on top of a young child. My hat is totally off to you. I do hope that you can continue in the direction of Unconditional Parenting because I think feeling loved unconditionally is one of the best gifts we can give to our family. With that said, though, sometimes I think that UP (as a book) can be a bit more theoretical and less practical at times, especially for toddlerhood. I think as kids get older some of Kohn's ideas are easier to implement. For now, you might want to read UP as theory and perhaps Playful Parenting or the Happiest Toddler on the Block more for practical ideas.

[LynnS6]

Yes, my kids treat us well. Do they argue and push the limits sometimes? Sure. Are they mostly helpful and kind? Yes. Are they becoming more kind and helpful as time goes on? Yes.

I'm not entirely convinced of the evilness of a timeout, but I really do try to frame them as a 'time in'. If my child is out of control, we do send them to their room.

Example: Tuesday night dd (5) dumped the lemonade all over the floor (after I had explicitly asked her to WAIT for me to do it because I had to look for something in the car).

So, I had to come in before I was done in the car, and I was MAD. So, I sent her to her room for a few minutes to get her out of the way while I cleaned up the mess and cooled down. (I really didn't need her tracking lemonade through the house.) I cleaned it up, then asked her to come down and wipe the area one more time with a wet cloth to get up the last of the stickiness.

Dd was heartbroken and mad that there was no lemonade then to be had. She sobbed. She wailed. She ranted at me to make more. (Nope, not going to happen.) After about 10 minutes of this, I sent her to her room. She was getting on my nerves. She was preventing ds from finishing his homework. Dh came home, I fled to our room to read and gain some equilibrium. Dd came down from her room and wailed to him for awhile. After 10 minutes, he sent her back to her room.

After a few more minutes, she came into our room and laid down on the bed next to me, still crying. She cried for a bit, then she sniffled. We snuggled a bit while I read. By then I'd cooled down, so I put my book down, and we chatted for a few minutes about silly stuff. She went off to bed happy.

My reaction probably is not textbook UP but I think it follows the spirit. Dd did not go to bed 'shamed', and indeed, I didn't shame her during the whole process. I probably could have done a better job acknowledging her emotions and empathizing in the heat of the moment, but it was the end of a long day. (I feel worse about yelling at ds to get his pajamas on because I was mad at dd!) At the same time, it was made clear to her that she didn't get to make the whole family miserable because she was upset. She was able to work through her upset. No one told her not to be mad. What we told her was that if she needed to scream, she needed to do it in her room, with the door closed.

[AngelBee]

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[transylvania_mom]

Originally Posted by linz2491

Like, If my 3 year old is screaming bloody murder because I am not going to fill his bowl of oatmeal to the top with maple syrup (everything has to be to the TOP, so I use the smallest tupperware I have) I don't have the right to put him in his room because I am teaching him I only love him when he is being good? HOw about i am teaching him that people expect that he should care about the peoples feelings around him and that there are ways to act in public?

Jmo, no, you you don't have to put him in his room, but you can refuse to give in to his demands if he doesn't express them politely.

My 4 y/o ds treats me very well, he's been wishing me Happy Mother's day for the past week and today he told me that he loved me.

Good luck to you and hang in.

[JamieCatheryn]

I haven't read all these books people talk about here, but I do try to address things with DS by looking at the root of the problem and fixing the issue, not using punishment. Having this kind of outlook helps me to see my son's behavior isn't about me, at a young age they're way too self centered for that. If he's throwing a fit because he didn't get what he wanted it's his issue not mine. I can tell him I understand his feelings, offer a similar alternative, take him somewhere else to cool down, redirect him to another activity, or just wait it out and stay detached.

He treats me very well when he's in a mood to interact paying attention to me specifically. Lots of empathy, love, help, and appreciation. He still gets wrapped up in his own stuff in the heat of the moment, they kinda all do that regardless of how you respond. I think for our family it gets resolved better without escalation our way than with punitive time-outs, hitting, or shouting. And I stay saner keeping the outlook I do about the whole thing.

[tubulidentata2]

I think DD (3) treats me as well as a child her age can. When I had terrible morning sickness six months ago, she would play quietly by herself and let me sleep, ask if I needed water, etc. When I need to talk on the phone or do something just for me, she tells me when she can handle it. She'll say,"Oh, right now I can handle you being on the phone. I will be very quiet."

At other times she can't handle being selfless, which I think is true of everyone at certain times - more often for toddlers than for most adults, although I know a few adults who are still needy *all* the time.

[octobermom]

FWIW not all of us are fans or supporters of UP but still practice GD.
Anyways yes my child treats me well. I treat the issue sometimes it can mean addressing a symptom that is causing the behavior hunger illiness thirst ect sometimes its fillign an emotional need time with mommy addressing a school problem the need for more outdoor time ect.. sometimes it is strictly dealing with the behavior. Discipline involves teaching and some teaching involves enforcing limits and boundries. Parenting also involves grace and the willingness to do over.

Deanna

[GoBecGo]

Ihave a 3 year old too

I haven't read a single book mentioned here. I have flipped through Gina Ford (NOT GD at all, but the only other parenting book i have even laid eyes on) in a bookshop (and think she should be burned down) and i have read Protecting the Gift and am familiar (though haven't readmost of it) with the Continuum Concept. That's it. The rest of my parenting i do by heart and i only google or investigate when i feel something is "wrong" - i know when i'm unhappy with how things are going.

I do use time outs when DD is being very rude or aggressive. I don't feel i need to listen to her making a screamed request while shesmacks me in the face because i would never make a request in that way of her. If she is upset and freaking out i lead her in taking deep breaths and telling me what she needs and then try to help ASAP (to make the cooling off and bing clear feel more worth it, since if she calms down to ask only to be refused she might aswell have continued the screaming, from her POV). I operate on a warning system, i always tell her gently when her behaviour is getting over much in some way, then remind her firmly, then ask if she'd like to sit on the stairs (her time out spot) sometimes she takes herself there. Often i go and sit there with her. If she is ragin i wait until she's ready to calm down a bit (can tell by her noises) and then approach.

I don't UP by the descriptions here and i am not CL at all, we have a definite heirarchy where rights are based on responsibilities, but we are gentle with one another, don't shame or smack, try not to shout and never let bad feeling linger.

[boatbaby]

My boy is so sweet to me sometimes it stops me in my tracks. We are 100% GD here, no time outs, clearly no physical punishments, no punishments at all. We talk things through and let natural consequences take their course.

The idea is that when they are old enough to start understanding (and 3 or 3.5 is NOT old enough by the way. More like 4.5 at the earliest) you want them to have the inner motivation to be kind. Not because they will get a time out of they don't. Not because they get a cookie if they do. But because it feels good or makes those you love feel good. Because it's the right thing to do.

For us, that means A LOT of discussing. But the discussions are not limited to DS's actions. We talk about mama and daddy and how we deal with our anger and frustrations and disappointments. We talk about his friends and how it feels to DS when they act out and what could be done differently. We talks about "little kids" (3 year old and younger siblings of DS's friends) and how they are still learning and how he can help them by gently showing them the right thing to do.

(When a 3 year old kept hitting him at a friends house and laughing and he said to me "M keeps hitting me. Doesn't he know that hurts me and makes me sad and mad and not want to play with him anymore? I used my words and he just laughs and does it again" and I said "You did the EXACT same thing at M's age. And mama had to show you one million times how to be gentle and why. He wants your attention. Tell him other ways to get your attention besides hitting.")

And we even talk about the actions of random kids & parents in the park and store. When we witness screamers and time outs in public and shamers and so on.

I hold him and tell him to breathe deep and count to 10. I tell him to squeeze me and get all the frustration out. He sometimes asks "to have time to myself" and will go make some space (hard to do living on a boat) to work out a frustration.

But most of all i ACKNOWLEDGE how he feels and what he wants. (Classic from How To Talk So Your Kids Will Listen...)
I say "You wish we could stay at H's house all night. I know. I wish that too. Wouldn't it be great if he lived with us in one big castle?!" OR "You really want ice cream for breakfast, I see that. You know what I wish I could have ice cream for EVERY meal, every single day. I do! But that would make my body get sick and slow and hurt. I love you so much, I can't do something that would hurt your body." That not only acknowledges his feelings (rather than, "NO, I said NO") but shows him that mommy has these feelings too, they are normal, and we all have to practice restraint.
...OR just a simple "You're frustrated, you're mad. I see that." or "What's your idea about how to get to the show on time if you still want to stay here and play?"

It's not being a push over by any means. I am very firm. It's about treating him like a PERSON who COUNTS. And it's completely paid off! The way he expresses himself and thinks about my feelings and helps with "chores" that I do without being asked (cleaning up toys or cleaning after meals) and the way 3 year old tantrums have evolved in to reasonable discussions about how he feels just blow me away!

I always say it's not HIS job to take orders from me. It's MY job to learn how to communicate with him and teach him and SHOW him the right way to communicate with others.

[Samhain Hunter]

I have never read the book, and never intend to read the book.

However I GD my kids, and generally live quite CL. We do not get walked all over. Our oldest is twelve. The youngest still just a babe. Yes they treat us well.

[bendingbirch]

Hi there, we have a seven and a half year old and a four and a half year old and I would say our children are normal children, are overall polite, kind, and work hard to treat us respectfully and we work hard to treat them respectfully. We are a family that does not use time outs, punishments or any of that.

For people new to gentle discipline, it can be confusing because many people start to equate gentle discipline with no discipline or no boundaries at all. This is a fallacy. There are still loving limits, but just different ways to deal with conflict.

If you are interested in what tools we use, here are two posts I wrote on my blog about the tools of gentle discipline and if you hit the "no spanking" tag in the tags box on my blog, many more will come up:
http://theparentingpassageway.com/20...le-discipline/

and this one: http://theparentingpassageway.com/20...e-big-picture/

I think the key things with gentle discipline is to approach your child with love, warmth and compassion, with being able to see things through their eyes. I probably don't discuss as much with my children as some, my husband and I really rely on the things that we model, the rhythm to our day and our week to really carry weight, and that understanding of what a three year is like, what a four year old is like to really help us as parents.

This is an exciting journey that you are on, it will transform you as a parent and also as a person. Congratulations for taking the first steps!

[mom2grrls]

I use GD with my kids ages 10, 7 and 5. They all treat me well and the 2 oldest rarely have behavior issues in school

[burke-a-bee]

I get walked all over. Yes. I'm expected to give in to every demand when the demand it.

[dulce de leche]

We have a 5 yo, 3 yo and 10 month old, and they treat us very well! (Well, the baby still pulls hair occasionally, but she's learning not to ). We practice UP, and have found that the kids have actually developed empathy far beyond many of their peers. They are very sensitive to the feelings of others and willingly modify their behavior (like using soft voices in a restaurant) so as not to inconvenience other people. They have their moments, of course, like anyone, but they seem to learn best from our behavior. On days when it slips, they are likely imitating a less-than-stellar moment of mine or dh.

[Tuesday]

Well, I have a 5 y/o and 2 y/o and my 5 y/o receives mental health counselling and has been an Explosive child since day 1. I've tried to follow this sort of philosophy in my house but it just doesn't work my older son!

And when he is irked, he really can push my buttons and make me angry and hurt - I find his outbursts extremely abusive. Example: He and I picked out flowers to plant. I gave him gloves, shovels and was going to let him do the planting (as he desired). As I handed over a plant for him to hold and then plant, I accidentally dropped the plant - and it landed into the hold I'd dug. So now he thinks I'm planting "his flower" - so he immediately screams at me and calls me stupid and he's absolutely furious.

This isn't learned behaviour - he's been this sort of explosive child since day 1. So - I just can't be this unconditional loving parent when someone acts like this ... there will be consequences for this sort of thing.

I personally think this form of GD (unconditional parenting) seems to work better with kids with milder temperaments.

[MissinNYC]

) you want them to have the inner motivation to be kind. Not because they will get a time out of they don't. Not because they get a cookie if they do. But because it feels good or makes those you love feel good. Because it's the right thing to do.

I disagree. Doing the right thing frequently doesn't feel good, nor does it always have visible consequences which are good. Sometimes it would feel really good to give a bad driver the finger, or to tell off someone I dislike, or to just be selfish. Doing the right thing is a very abstract concept for a child to understand. Even adults need carrots and sticks in order to behave, and the fear of consequences helps all of us make moral decisions.

[linz2491]

Originally Posted by MissinNYC

I disagree. Doing the right thing frequently doesn't feel good, nor does it always have visible consequences which are good. Sometimes it would feel really good to give a bad driver the finger, or to tell off someone I dislike, or to just be selfish. Doing the right thing is a very abstract concept for a child to understand. Even adults need carrots and sticks in order to behave, and the fear of consequences helps all of us make moral decisions.

First of all thanks for all the kind replies. Second to the above poster, I do kindd of agree with this. The fact is in life you do things to benifit you and your family. You go to work to get paid, you go to school to get a diploma to go to work to get paid. While you are in school you intern, to make connections. THis is the facts of life. Now yes i hope to raise my children so they will also want to help people/animals/ect. in need but very few people give up everything for the sole purpose of helping others without something in it for them. I have a hard time seeing what is wrong with praising my child for a job well done or having a reward board for cleaning his room. (because really, not many kids clean their room for the joy of it.)

I consider my ds2 to be an explosive child as well. Many days is one explosion after another. Most days I let him scream, some days I have to put him in his room for his own good not as a punishment per se. I do resort to less gd methods from lack of a better way and because of the way I was raised as well as no support.
I get alot of flack from dh/family about ds2 behaviour like it is my fault (maybe it is I don't know) they seem to want to antogonize his triggers so they can put him in his place. I don't really want to be around them anymore. My mom brought up in convo that she washed his mouth out with soap for cussing repeatedly! He called me an idiot in front of my sister and she went and popped him on the butt! I think I have got my point across to them that they are not allowed to disapline him (in any way if I am around) and definently not like that. I couldn't believe it!
I try to do whatever I can to sidestep his tantrums if that means wearing the same filthy mismatched clothes, swim goggles, super tools in his pants and a bow on his hair for a week then at least he is wearing clothes.
I put everything to the top of the smallest tupperware I have (except syrup because besides being not good in large amounts it is just too expensive to waste.)
He watches tv (against my wishes we were tv free basically) too much because he will scream all day for it.
I do feel that my 8 year old son is getting the raw end of the deal because it is always about the 3 year old and then the 1 year old after him.

thanks for listening. If/when I talk to my mom/dh they act like I am so negative and then go on to tell me why it is all my fault.

[Dar]

Originally Posted by Tuesday

This isn't learned behaviour - he's been this sort of explosive child since day 1. So - I just can't be this unconditional loving parent when someone acts like this ... there will be consequences for this sort of thing.

FWIW, at 5 and 6 my kid was a lot like this. I chose to believe that she was doing the best she could with the tools she had and worked with her to help her learn different ways of dealing with her incredibly strong feelings. I didn't punish her. It was very hard. I worked on ensuring that we had a close relationship and that she saw me as being on her side and trying to help her, rather than seeing me as someone trying to get in her way.

She's 16 now and lovely... just lovely. She treats me very well...

[SunShineSally]

Yes sometimes Ds thinks he should GET EVERYTHING HE WANTS WHEN HE WANTS IT AT THE MOMENT HE WANTS IT but he is an aries and fits the description of one to a T. BUT he is so loving and cares so much about other people he is sensitive he wants NO ONE to be angery or sad if you are he will try to get you to smile. He always tells me that he loves me and he loves to cuddle. Just yesterday I said to him now tomorrow you are going to try to listen better because it can make me mad when you do not listen and i do not want to be angery or mad. He started to cry becuase he doesn't want anyone to be mad at him BUT chidren are just that way to begin with they all do think that the world should revolve around them and one thing as a parent we are supposed to do is show them yes they need to be taken care of and loved and have needs met BUT others need that also. Ohh my Ds is 5