this has probably been asked a million times... - Page 2

[PuppyFluffer]

The updates made my Mother's Dat too.

This especially resonated with me:

I think what did it for him was looking at it from the stand point that our baby will grow up to be a thinking adult (just like us!) and leaving it intact is the best way to give that choice to our son. I feel SO MUCH better that I don't have to fight for my son to just be left the way he is!

We need to consider that we are raising adults - not children. We need to be conscious that the decisions we make for them today shape and impact the adults they will become.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer

The updates made my Mother's Dat too.



We need to consider that we are raising adults - not children. We need to be conscious that the decisions we make for them today shape and impact the adults they will become.

Yay! So glad to hear it!

Just to elaborate on Puppyfluffer...not only are we raising adults, but we are raising adults who will have access to the same information we do (most likely more) and will know what was done (or not done) to them. I have a feeling there are going to be a whole lot of P!ssed off men out there who are going to be wondering why their parents ignored all the information out there and mutilated their genitals.

[PuppyFluffer]

And I hope they take advantge of that small window of time after they become legal age when they can legally sue their circumciser! Legal pressure is a heavy motivator.

[Fyrestorm]

Ya know, I think it's going to be really interesting in a few years when the first boys that were cut after the FGM law went into effect are of age..I think they will have a really good case against their mutilators, but a good case that it was illegal at the time.

Think about it...the FGM bill makes it illegal to do ANYTHING to a females genitals..even so much as a pin prick to ritually draw a drop of blood. Add to that the the US Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law and it adds up to the fact that Male genital mutilation has already been illegal for 12 years.

In other words...Let the lawsuits begin!

[PuppyFluffer]

Fyre, you are right!

I can't be the only one interested in this issue who saw that one of the potential Supreme Court Justice nominees may be a Hispanic woman. When I read that, my first thought was that a woman might "get" this issue easier than a circ'd man and from a generally intact culture is a serious plus!

I hope to see this issue before the Supreme Court in my lifetime.

[fruitful womb]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

Ya know, I think it's going to be really interesting in a few years when the first boys that were cut after the FGM law went into effect are of age..I think they will have a really good case against their mutilators, but a good case that it was illegal at the time.

Think about it...the FGM bill makes it illegal to do ANYTHING to a females genitals..even so much as a pin prick to ritually draw a drop of blood. Add to that the the US Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law and it adds up to the fact that Male genital mutilation has already been illegal for 12 years.

In other words...Let the lawsuits begin!

:

[mjg013]

Originally Posted by Lula's Mom

zenproof, we're in the same DDC. Every time somebody posts that they found out they're having a boy, I flinch because I know they just might be having this discussion at home...

My DH is circumcised. He knew I am the type to do my research, so when I said we wouldn't circumcise if we had a son, he agreed immediately. And we didn't.

But for himself and his own circumcised penis- he had never thought anything of it. He didn't consider himself "scarred" by it either (even though physically, he has some of the worst scarring and pitting I have ever seen). That is, until I explained to him how it's done. I could see it dawning on him that it was done just like that to him as an infant. He was strapped down. He was cut with scissors and then a scalpel; his thousands of nerve endings were removed without his consent and he will never enjoy their sensations when we make love.

I hate that this man that I adore had to have that realization about his body-that he was violated when he was a newborn. But it made him an intactivist. He has talked to co-workers and friends about why they shouldn't circumcise their future sons.

I think even though it's terribly difficult, it's also terribly important that circumcised men understand that it's not just a little snip. 15 square inches of innervated skin was taken from them! Your DH might never get emotional about it like mine did, but he needs to know what exactly he is proposing you take from your son.

You've got to change your thinking from "it's really his decision because he has a penis and I don't." It's not his decision, or yours either, really. This penis will belong to your son, not to his parents, and only your son should have anything to say about it.

BTW, my son is 4 and has never mentioned anything about his Papi not having a foreskin (but he does comment on the size difference!)

This was my dh's reaction. I actually knew all along that I would leave any sons we had intact but I knew he needed the research because he was circumcised and didn't understand the seriousness of it. Once I did the research he was not only on board but he also realized what was taken from him and was very upset about it. He is also now an intactivist and he is a very introverted guy. It still surprises me that he can speak out about this issue.

[zenproof]

well ironically...

i printed out all my little reports...had the video all set up to play...and approached him about when he might be able to look over all the 'research'.

he looked more ready to be done with me than anything and said 'i'm not going to read that stuff. obviously its unneccessary so we just wont do it'.

boo ya! thank you very much. my guess is that he could sense my mounting tension about it and figured this wasn't a battle he wanted to pick. he is a smart man.

i slapped him on the back and said 'way to break the chain babe!'

now...I feel like im going to have to print out little 'foreskin care instructions' cards to pass out to everyone in our family so we all know what the hell to do and not to do with a foreskin!!! the unfamiliar is an odd and curious thing....

i have to admit, ive only ever seen the intact penises of my friends babies...and never a grown man. they are very strange looking.

it will be uncharted territory (in terms of knowing if there is ever anything wrong with it, or what to do - or not to do - about it) for both my husband and I.

strongfeather - im glad to hear the outcome on your end was a positive one as well.

i'm all about leaving the decision to the child.

[mjg013]

Originally Posted by zenproof

well ironically...

i printed out all my little reports...had the video all set up to play...and approached him about when he might be able to look over all the 'research'.

he looked more ready to be done with me than anything and said 'i'm not going to read that stuff. obviously its unneccessary so we just wont do it'.

boo ya! thank you very much. my guess is that he could sense my mounting tension about it and figured this wasn't a battle he wanted to pick. he is a smart man.

i slapped him on the back and said 'way to break the chain babe!'

now...I feel like im going to have to print out little 'foreskin care instructions' cards to pass out to everyone in our family so we all know what the hell to do and not to do with a foreskin!!! the unfamiliar is an odd and curious thing....

i have to admit, ive only ever seen the intact penises of my friends babies...and never a grown man. they are very strange looking.
it will be uncharted territory (in terms of knowing if there is ever anything wrong with it, or what to do - or not to do - about it) for both my husband and I.

strongfeather - im glad to hear the outcome on your end was a positive one as well.

i'm all about leaving the decision to the child.

That feeling will pass very quickly. I had only ever seen circ'ed penises as well. Now that I have 3 intact sons I am always shocked when I change a baby boy's diaper and he is circ'ed. Before long a circ'ed penis will seem very strange which is as it should be. As for care, my mom is the only person who asked about that. No one else has even considered messing with it. My mom changed Kyan when he was just a day old and wanted to know what she was supposed to do. I told her nothing. Just wipe him off and put a clean diaper on him.

[PuppyFluffer]

I agree, I think you might find that the circumcised penis becomes the unusual and incorrect sight after you care for your intact son.

I heard a person from an intact culture share the experience of seeing her first circumcised infant. It was just totally wrong to her to see the glans exposed like that. She went on to explain that in an intact culture, the glans of the penis is exposed during sexual arousal. Otherwise, it is covered by the foreskin. It was shockingly wrong to her to see this sexual look on a baby. Makes perfect sense to me.

I wonder if this is why the Europeans have a more relaxed and accepting view of nudity in general. At a nude beach a nude male or female is not obscene. I suspect, in this setting, that a male exposing the glans of his penis would be considered obscene as would a woman on a beach towel exposing the inner bits of her genitals.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer

I wonder if this is why the Europeans have a more relaxed and accepting view of nudity in general. At a nude beach a nude male or female is not obscene. I suspect, in this setting, that a male exposing the glans of his penis would be considered obscene as would a woman on a beach towel exposing the inner bits of her genitals.

This is interesting. We spend our vacations on a French island in the Caribbean. All the beaches there are clothing optional. I have never seen a circumcised man naked there...although that might be because they are mostly European and intact anyway...