we are waiting b/c of size and breed restrictions. also ?s for people who have big dogs

[1littlebit]

sorry this is really long. i recently posted about getting a dog in an apt but we have decided to wait. i talked to our apt complex and while they allow dogs they have many restrictions. there is a 35 lb weight limit (its 65 lbs in the garden apts for some reason) there are also tons of breed restrictions. there is a whole list .. apparently we are not allowed to have any breed that is on the Virginia aggressive breeds list..whatever that is :

we saw some very sweet medium sized dogs at the adoption event this weekend but our hearts are just not in it. growing up we had an usually large lab and then a great pyrenees and dp had a husky mix. since we believe that a dog is a permanent family member we would rather wait and get a dog that fits our family not the apt. complex requirements yk?

i dont understand this whole breed restriction thing. dp and i have been researching breeds for awhile now hoping that it will help us choose a dog who will fit well in our family and almost every breed we are considering is banned from out apt. complex.

the breeds that appeal the most to us are pretty much all bully breeds with the exception of the newfounland and great dane. heres the thing though, in my experience bully breeds just need a strong, dominant pack leader, clear consistent boundaries, and a good amount of exercise (some physical some mental and some need a combo). i think all dogs need this but the larger, more intelligent, and more loyal the dog is the more you and they need it. they need to know their place in order to feel secure. physical and mental work is also important or they will get antsy and bored which leads to the development of problem behaviors.

the next bit is some of my questions about owning more powerful dogs. i would love to get some insight and opinions preferably from people who have experience with gigantic dogs and/or bully breeds. if you are i know many people would never consider owning a pit bull or rottweiler or husky because of their reputation and thats fine but i would prefer to hear from people who have personal experience with these types of dogs.

we are also going to wait until ds is a bit older because the time commitment is greater for the types of breeds we are leaning towards. do you think we are being incredibly naive to consider a 'bully' breed? i know there is a lot of fear surrounding them but it seems like a lot of that is because the owners of the dogs did not understand how to properly care for a dog who is physically powerful, highly intelligent, and has a high prey drive.

it also seems like people are intimidated by their size.. which i am not. people were scared crapless of our lab (he was really freaking tall for a lab even the vet was perplexed) and he was the sweetest dumbest dog in the world.. he was also terrified of my cat who regularly helped herself to his water bowl while he cowered next to my mom. they are also afraid of my parents great pyrenees who is like 8 yrs old, only has three legs, and is whose greatest goal in life is to herd every living thing in the house into one room. shes more likely to stand up and sing the national anthem then she is to bite someone. newfoundlands and great danes are not consider aggressive breeds but they also need strong leadership and boundaries to feel secure. i know that they are to intelligent to mindlessly follow commands for a treat, i know they need to be properly socialized and will probably always need supervision when around other animals, i know that they are very rarely aggressive towards humans esp. when they are quite sure that humans are dominant and not the other way around. i know they need quite a bit of exercise and most dont like to be bored.

i have talked to a few people who work with and own breeds like rotties, APBTs, and german shepards who have recommended some books to read and seemed pleased we were starting to prepare two or so years in advance. they said it will give us a chance to make a very informed decision about which breed is best for us, whether to buy from a breeder or adopt from a shelter, get good trainer recs from people with the same type of breed etc. one also said she recommended volunteering somewhere that works with these types of breeds to get more experience before committing.

[ChristyMarie]

I will say this...the strength a lab has, even a large lab, will not compare to the pure muscle strength of some of the breeds you are thinking of. They are just different. And they get to the point where you cannot physically control them so training is a must. A big lab can be controlled - and I'm a whimp. LOL. But you get a p!$$ed off or excited Great Dane and um...he's gonna do what he wants to do unless he's trained well. Here's a story, my St Bernard once got on the trail of some critter and started pulling. Well I had him and no command was stopping him and since he outweighed me I wasn't doing much physically. My mom (all 225 pounds of her) came over and got the leash with me. That dog pulled us both about 25 feet through woods until the leash got stuck on a tree. They are strong. And determined. And they think they are lap dogs.

I would see if you could spend some time with the breeds you are seriously considering to get an idea of their strength and how it is to handle them. Perhaps a local breeder or rescue organization? Sounds like you have time before making a decision so take some time to research and experience the breeds and see what will work best for you and your family. Also know that the larger breeds suffer from some serious health problems and tend to live much shorter lives. And their upkeep (food, vet bills, etc) are much more than taking care of an average size dog.

If you do go for a rottweiler or such, make sure to get a good breeder who is breeding for the right reasons. They can be fabulous dogs but in the hands of a breeder looking to get a mean dog, yeah, not so good.

[1littlebit]

yeah i know they are definitely stronger and need a very different kind of 'training then one might give to lassie. from the research we are doing it seems like the most important thing is to establish and forever keep alpha dog status and set very clear consistent boundaries and make sure their physical and mental needs are being meet.

the vet bills i know can be bad esp. in giant breeds like great danes and newfoundlands plus they have a shorter life span. that is one of the things we are seriously considering as well. i think we would get pet health insurance because of their tendency towards health problems. and i think health problems are more common in pure bread dogs then in mutts. if we do go for a bully breed we would probably go with a breeder over a shelter and we would definitely do our research and make sure we find a very reputable breeder.

ETA- apparently the other reason it is good that we are looking early is because many very reputable breeders have very long waiting lists. i suppose this makes sense though.

[Ola_]

I think there is the personality of the breed, and the temperament of the individual. The strong breeds get a bad rep because people don't train them and an unruly large breed is more scary than an unruly toy breed. So I think what you are describing is a great plan for a large/powerful breed of a sound temperament. I don't think that it is enough to contain an aggressive dog safely KWIM?

That sucks about your apartment though. Would renting a house be an option? They can be more lenient since you're not in close proximity to other neighbours or your landlord.

[apmmidwife]

Dog

I have a Rottweiler and he is the best dog I've ever owned. We bought him from a reputable breeder and began good training classes when he was 4 months old. These dogs need socialization and obedience classes to be good members of your family but once they do, they are amazing. He is so gentle and loving - he'll sit between our legs and lay his head in our laps to get loved on. They are very protective of their families and are great at scaring off marketers and unwanteds knocking on the door. If it's a Rotty you're interested in, research the breeds history and you'll find they were once the number one family dog in the US. Overbreeding and bad ownership followed by the Omen movies have given these dogs a bad rep. A powerful animal in the wrong hands spells disaster no matter what the breed!

[Alyantavid]

I don't think there's anything wrong with owning one of those breeds if you're completely prepared, which it sounds like you will be.

We have a big dog, he's a Chesapeake and he's the best dog I've ever had. He's tall for a Chessie anyways and he's just big all around. He's completely harmless, but he's so big most people are scared of him anyways. Chessie's are very loyal and protective of their families and he's definitely that. I know that if someone came up and I needed some help, he'd be right there.

He's definitely benefitted from all the training we've done with him. He outweighs me but I can easily control him. We originally got him as a hunting dog but his bad hips make it impossible for him to do much retrieving. He's seriuosly the greatest dog ever but the amount of work we put into training him makes me weary of getting another Chessie, but I can't imagine not having one.

[angie7]

There is absolutely a bias against big dogs. I have Great Danes, have been heavily involved in the breed for years now. A few years ago my neighbors and I got into a fight b/c "my dogs were barking all nite" I kindly explained to them that my dogs are inside dogs and sleep in their own room (yea, they had their own room complete with doggie paw paint and lined with dog beds). As my 175 lb loveable male Dane was leaning on my neighbor, he said "you don't let this big dog in your house" My dh asked if he wanted to see his room. We have had nothing but problems with our neighbors and it seems that the trouble started after the Danes moved in. It's sad really. Just b/c they are huge doesn't mean they are loud, vicious, destructrive, etc. One reason we are moving to the country and getting away from neighbors.

[oneKnight]

My dog barely qualifies as "big" or large, definitely not in the same class as the dogs that the OP is considering, but she's 60lbs and part Chow so she would be banned. She's the quietest dog in the neighborhood. I would much rather be neighbors with my quiet big dog than with the next door neighbor's miniature Doxie that barks so high pitched that it sounds like it's in pain!!

[SquishyKitty]

We own a Rottweiler and she's over 100 lbs right now, and she's still got some growing to do. I really have no way to describe the amount of strength in her, which is why training is so incredibly important for the bigger dogs. She just went through her first heat, and afterwards she gained about 15 lbs in a week. Her chest is massive, and her neck and head are huge. Her mother was about 120 lbs, so we're expecting at least that. DS tried to play tug of war with her once, he's 80 lbs, and he went flying across the yard. And she was only playing. I think the biggest issue with the big strong dogs is that they can be very playful, but they don't realize how big and strong they are. That's why it's very important that you train them early to respond to one or two dominant adults in the home. I say two because if your DH establishes dominance, but nobody else does, how can you control her when he's not there?

She's got a wonderful temperment, and does require tons of exercise. We walk her two miles every morning, and in the afternoon we play hard with her out in the yard for about an hour. Rotties are also big babies, and need lots of love and physical contact. No matter where we are, she's always close by.

They are on most states' dangerous breed lists, but there are things you can do to alleviate problems with that. Canine Good Citizen courses, and the certificate, are a great way to show that the dog is not aggressive and has basic training. Continual training also helps quite a bit. Search and Rescue leagues, which we're considering for our dog when she's full grown (too much walking isn't good for the larger breeds' hips until they're full grown, plus she still has a few things to work on in her training), and multiple other things you can do to "Prove" that the dog is not aggressive, and well trained.

Unfortunately, there are just some things we can't get around. We live in Germany, and if we take our dog out of our area and into a couple of other areas nearby, she'll have to be muzzled. We wiggle around that with a "Gentle Leader", which looks like a muzzle but still allows her to open her mouth and sniff and stuff. It's part of owning a large breed.

The neighborhood we'll be moving into next year won't be a problem though, one neighbor has Bull Mastiffs and St. Bernards, and several other neighbors have large dogs like Labs and such, so she'll fit right in.

The key with any dog is to keep them well socialized with people and kids, and never leave them alone with either. We actually found in our training classes, that there is even a proper etiquette for allowing the dogs to greet each other on the leash.

So, there is a lot to consider, and having a big dog I think is a lot more work than a smaller one. It's almost like DS has gained a sibling some days.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Definitely seek out a very reputable breeder.