I bought "Baby Wise" AND a James Dobson book.... - Page 8

[Super Glue Mommy]

I, like Lisa, know a few children who beat up their parents (my husband, my brother in law, and a friend - girl - in middle school) All of whom where physically disciplined. Then you see on the news a child who shot and killed his father for spanking him (it was a predetermined thing, something like once he reached x amount of spankings he was going to kill him, then he did) anyway, not saying people who aren't spanked are never violent, but I just haven't had that personal experience yet - so far my personal experience has been that people who hit their parents are teens who finally "snap" after years of being hit themselves. That being said, I was spanked and I never hit my parents - in retrospect though, I do wish I had... I don't think physical discipline alone is the cause for a child to do that, but I find it even less likely that not being violent with your child will cause them to be violent. I think there was something else going on there... or perhaps Dobson is just full of it.

[KestrelDream]

There are a lot of people who where spanked as kids. We didn't kill or beat up our parents. I think there is more to it than being spanked. Plus, the point Dobson was making in his book was that she didn't discipline her kid. It would be interesting to know how this kid was raised, why she had so much anger.

[Super Glue Mommy]

yep that was Dobsons point. I didn't see where anyone missed that...

[annettemarie]

Actually, Dobson's point is the same mysonginistic crap that's been flung at women since time began-- kids mess up? It's gotta be the mother's fault. Obviously she didn't (discpline him enough, love him enough, feed him enough, clean up after him enough, fill in your blaming tactic here).

[KestrelDream]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

yep that was Dobsons point. I didn't see where anyone missed that...

Geesh! Well I did. I don't know if it was your post or not...since you edited.

Scratching my head wondering why that comment was posted.....sarcastic much?

[Super Glue Mommy]

no not sarcasm, just trying to figure out if I was the one you were misunderstanding. my post was edited to add the "that being said..." part, in case it was me who you possibly misunderstood.

ETA for clarification: nothing was REMOVED from that post. I only added to it.

Well put annette!

[angelamariebee]

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I'm kind of on the "non-censorship"-"slippery slope" side of the fence. Reading this thread, and talk of burning books makes me nervous no matter how much I hate what is written inside.

I really, really like the "ezzo.info" warning/card-slipped-inside idea. I think that's probably the most effective solution since the CIO mentality is so prevalent among parents, they are bound to hear it from someone sooner or later. At least this way we are countering with the right information, instead of leaving them with none at all.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by jackie75

There are a lot of people who where spanked as kids. We didn't kill or beat up our parents. I think there is more to it than being spanked. Plus, the point Dobson was making in his book was that she didn't discipline her kid. It would be interesting to know how this kid was raised, why she had so much anger.

Maybe one day, I'll read the book (although I doubt I could stomach it).

In any case, I was spanked, and I've never had any desire whatsoever to hit my parents (okay - once - but only to get through mom to beat my sister to a pulp...and I didn't do it). None of my friends who were spanked ever hit their parents, either. The kids I knew who did that were beaten - badly. What I'm wondering is who this woman was, and whether Dobson actually knew whether the child was disciplined/spanked/beaten/whatever. Or, was he just jumping to conclusions that fit his "you have to spank them" philosophy? I've also known people who weren't spanked/physically disciplined...and none of them beat up their parents, either. (A couple of them were disrespectful and somewhat verbally abusive, but never physical.)

Incidentally...imo, spanking a child for crying because they were spanked goes past spanking and into physical abuse. (I don't share the general MDC belief that spanking is inherently abusive...but it certainly can be, and that's a perfect manifestation of that.)

[1littlebit]

ok first.. i think any book the aap actually bothers to warn people about should have to have a warning on its cover.. there are lots of books that contradict the AAP and they dont put out warnings about those books... yk?

and i dont consider hitting your children with a switch a parenting choice.. i consider it child abuse.. and conveniently enough so do most judges. i think comparing it to comfort nursing, extended bfing, and un schooling is absurd and demonstrate a lack of understanding on all three subjects. since there are studies that show CIO may lead to brain damage that may one day be considered child abuse as well.

lastly every single advertisement on the left hand side of this page is for focus on the family, and has been ever sense i opened this thread. apparently google thinks that if i am reading this page i would enjoy that one.. i think google might need an upgrade.

[jitterBug mom]

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

ok first.. i think any book the aap actually bothers to warn people about should have to have a warning on its cover.. there are lots of books that contradict the AAP and they dont put out warnings about those books... yk?

Well.. again, I wish to point out that the AAP has made very strong statements against cosleeping (and directly blame it for infant deaths). The AAP has also published a journal article in Pediatrics attacking the Sears alternate vaccine schedule. The AAP officially condones certain levels of CIO - just not Babywise. As someone who delays vaccines, cosleeps, does not believe in CIO etc., I do not want to side with the AAP on rare instances that I agree with them, and I certainly don't want warnings showing up on AP books.

I do not like Babywise or Dobson at all. Never read them, because I read about them beforehand and knew to stay away. But I feel like there is a lot of misinformation in this thread that reminds me too much of how the "other side" reacts to MY parenting. That is why I never think it is a good idea to resort to book banning, warning labels and so on, because it could just as easily go the other way.

[1littlebit]

Originally Posted by jitterBug mom

Well.. again, I wish to point out that the AAP has made very strong statements against cosleeping (and directly blame it for infant deaths). The AAP has also published a journal article in Pediatrics attacking the Sears alternate vaccine schedule. The AAP officially condones certain levels of CIO - just not Babywise.

thats the thing though they make statements against tons of things i do.. in fact by their standards i sort of suck as a parent. their thoughts on CIO and scheduled feedings are basically 'to an extent' so they condone it on some level. but babywise takes scheduling and CIO to such an extreme that it can lead to Failure to thrive ... i think people have a right to know that.

do they actually have good research about co sleeping contributing to infant deaths? b/c all of the research i have read says that co sleeping may help prevent infant death as long as you go about it safely. the article in the washington post that made me throw things called the dangerous kind of co sleeping 'chaotic co sleeping' i think it was the only actual fact in the whole article since the rest of it was about how horrible co sleeping is and how only poor people do it.. it was awful but thats besides the point. man 3 months ago and i'm still mad about that. the last sentence basically contradicted the rest of the article it was weird.

[nerdymom]

OK, the aap is kinda nuts, so that wouldn't deter me. However I think OP is totally awsome for doing what she did. FYI paper makes great weed block in a flower garden. As a child of radical Dobson-ites, I can appreciate what this mama did. I know women who pick up parenting books at thrift stores, stockpile them, and give them to new parents-to-be.

Also, I now want a book bookcase!

[1littlebit]

it never occurred to me to buy a book telling me how to parent my child.. is that weird? i had pregnancy and birth books but no parenting books. now i probably wouldnt have done CIO either way ... my family is very anti spanking and CIO but CIO never occurred to DP until someone actually told him to do it. this makes me think that if left to our own devices people would respond to their childrens cries b/c not responding to them seems sort of stupid. why wouldnt you respond? yk?

its when people hear all this crap about training and independence that things get messy. DP's friend told him about it and how her sister never let her kids cry and always held them and they are spoiled brats now. he absolutely hates hearing ds cry and ds is the sweetest kid in the world so mostly he just ignores her.

[hrsmom]

OP, I think that's kinda neat that you did that!

[OakBerry]

Originally Posted by rachel616

Dr. Sears has never caused failure to thrive.

I wouldn't know about that, but Dr. Sears recommends co-sleeping, which is often mentioned as contributing to SIDS.

I'm not saying I agree with that, as I co-slept myself. But it could be a reason why someone might want to buy up or hide his books to "protect" new mothers.

That's what I meant in my original statement.

I know from reading all the posts that most of you don't agree, and I don't mind.
I just think that buying books to prevent other people from reading them is wrong. Even if you are within your legal rights to do it.

[SaraMum]

At least one less person will read Babywise

[kalimay]

"I haven't read the whole thread yet but I'm kind of on the "non-censorship"-"slippery slope" side of the fence. Reading this thread, and talk of burning books makes me nervous no matter how much I hate what is written inside."

I agree with this.


"At least one less person will read Babywise "

What if it was the one person who was so disgusted by Babywise, who had the resources to do something about getting a warning on the cover or taking the author to task in court, they did something about it.

[boysmom2]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I just thought I'd add this idea: I have a friend who carries post-it notes with her. When she finds a book like that, instead of hiding it or buying it to burn or whatever, she writes a note and sticks it inside. She recommends other options depending what the book is: the No-Cry Sleep Solution, Gentle Discipline, etc., for Baby Wise, The Thinking Woman's Guide to Birth for mainstream pregnancy/birth books, etc. That way someone can still buy the "bad" book if they want, but maybe they've been given another possible resource that they otherwise would never have known about.

Sometimes when I'm in a bookstore, if there are enough copies of a book I like, I'll stick one in front of Babywise or some other awful book. That way, Babywise is still there, where people can find it, they just have to move another alternative out of the way to find it. Again, maybe they didn't know there were other options out there and maybe someone will consider reading Sears instead.

I think it's more important that people be exposed to other ideas so that they can make informed decisions. If you don't know any better and your MIL and best friends and ped are all telling you that you NEED to follow Babywise, why wouldn't you? But if you read that AND some more gentle resources, you might be more likely to not blindly follow the Babywise advice. Sadly, I think a lot of people just don't know what else is out there.