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I bought "Baby Wise" AND a James Dobson book.... - Page 5

post #81 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwayshappy View Post
I would say we have a healthy difference of opinion

I am a very strong supporter of freedom of speech and will - many of which I do find abhorent,
So am I, which is why I support the OP's right to do what she did, even if I don't agree with her reasons.
post #82 of 158
You know, it's an interesting discussion though. Once I was at a Goodwill and there was a Holocaust denial book. I went to the manager, showed her, and she removed it, but if she hadn't, I would have bought it and binned it. And I would have felt absolutely justified in doing so.
post #83 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by moondiapers View Post
Actually, neglect is against the law. There are babies that have died because their prents believed everything in the Ezzo books.
THANK YOU. I'm sorry, but these books are on the side of the spectrum where children have died as a result of someone reading these books and practicing them to a tee. SURELY, you can understand that, and understand why another mother would want to save a new mom the possibility of not only damaging her child for life emotionally, but possibly saving that child from death.

Extreme, yes. But those books are literally an instruction booklet on how to abuse an infant. :
post #84 of 158
OP can do whatever she wants with her money and her beliefs. I personally hate the Babywise books, but TBH I have read a number of Dobson's books and have really gotten a lot of great info from them. I choose not to spank my children, so I understand why some of you disagree with some of his parenting approaches...but his mission is not to promotoe physical punishment. He has a great book on self-esteem, and many others. Just because I disagree with some of his beliefs, doesn't mean he's a horrible, evil person that shouldn't be allowed to give parenting advice.

Even with the Ezzo books, I'm not sure I'd do that form of protest...there are lots of things I disagree with AND that I believe to be morally wrong...but I'm not going to go my thrift store to buy EVERY book I think is wrong.
post #85 of 158
I suppose my biggest problem with this particular form of "protest" is that the 3 (hypothetical) women whom the op stopped from picking up this book at the thrift store have no idea that ezzo books are bad..whereas..I don't know maybe a business type card or ssomething stuck inside each copy would perhaps make those three women aware that there are many experts who strongly disagree with ezzo.

No one is being "censored", the 3 women are (hopefully )educated, and could perhaps pass the info on, and the op is perhaps being more effective in her form of protest.
post #86 of 158
Thread Starter 
Is it not my free will to buy something and do with it what I choose?
post #87 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamilla626 View Post
Is it not my free will to buy something and do with it what I choose?
Well, that's the key for me. It seems like you are being told that you are only allowed to buy these books for certain reasons, when your actions of buying the boook are going to keep others from reading those specific copies, one way or another.
post #88 of 158
I'm still wondering where book purses and book birdhouses fall on the moral spectrum.
post #89 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by radishes View Post
It's pretty clear to me ...
Sorry about that. Thank you for providing an actual study backing up claims about CIO. I hadn't see one of those before and had begun to suspect they didn't exist. I should've have mentioned that in my reply, but got distracted. Everything after the part where I find Dr. Mindell's work is off-topic to this side discussion which is off-topic to the main discussion.

My comments on things I was finding in the study were not intended to be a criticism of you and I apologize that you felt I was accusing you of supporting CIO. I knew you were offering Dr. Mindell as an example of an expert who supported CIO because I had requested that you share the studies you had found for the pro-CIO side of things.
post #90 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
I'm still wondering where book purses and book birdhouses fall on the moral spectrum.
Both more moral than book bookcases.
post #91 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Both more moral than book bookcases.
OK, that's just freaking cool.
post #92 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAU3 View Post
I suppose my biggest problem with this particular form of "protest" is that the 3 (hypothetical) women whom the op stopped from picking up this book at the thrift store have no idea that ezzo books are bad..whereas..I don't know maybe a business type card or ssomething stuck inside each copy would perhaps make those three women aware that there are many experts who strongly disagree with ezzo.

No one is being "censored", the 3 women are (hopefully )educated, and could perhaps pass the info on, and the op is perhaps being more effective in her form of protest.
Oooo, there's the answer to what Kamilla should do with the books. Glue all the pages except the front covers together, "This book can kill babies, but regular breast exams might save your life!" and re-donate them. Then it'd be like triple good work.
post #93 of 158
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
...and book birdhouses fall on the moral spectrum.
They used "To Kill a Mockingbird"!
post #94 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
My comments on things I was finding in the study were not intended to be a criticism of you and I apologize that you felt I was accusing you of supporting CIO. I knew you were offering Dr. Mindell as an example of an expert who supported CIO because I had requested that you share the studies you had found for the pro-CIO side of things.
It's cool. I know this is a heated topic with people, I'm sorry for getting snippy.
post #95 of 158
And Viola, your public library probably has copies.
post #96 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by flower01 View Post
OP can do whatever she wants with her money and her beliefs. I personally hate the Babywise books, but TBH I have read a number of Dobson's books and have really gotten a lot of great info from them. I choose not to spank my children, so I understand why some of you disagree with some of his parenting approaches...but his mission is not to promotoe physical punishment. He has a great book on self-esteem, and many others. Just because I disagree with some of his beliefs, doesn't mean he's a horrible, evil person that shouldn't be allowed to give parenting advice.

Even with the Ezzo books, I'm not sure I'd do that form of protest...there are lots of things I disagree with AND that I believe to be morally wrong...but I'm not going to go my thrift store to buy EVERY book I think is wrong.
It seems to me that this is part of why the Babywise books are so controversial, and the controversy in this thread too. I mean, I don't think people are suggesting we go out and burn Ferber books we buy from thrift stores (I'm sure now that someone will think that is a good idea.)

It's because those books present things in a way that is not safe. And there are ways to get books with unsafe info off the market. Babywise really walks that line, it's not just a difference in philosophy.

OTOH, I would never remove a Holocaust denier's book and burn it. But I would make a book purse with it.
post #97 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by radishes View Post
And again, do you believe in putting warning on everything one group of people believes is bad or wrong? Because if you did that than it wouldn't be a hot minute before Jame Dobson and cronies crap themselves with joy over putting warnings on AP books. Or warnings on Gay and Lesbian literature: Warning, reading this may turn you and your loved ones homosexual. And yeah, they would find some expert to back them up. I'm not big on experts of any kind. Anyone can be paid to say anything. Of course, you don't seem interested in debating the merits of warning people, you just want to point out how bad CIO, which EVERYONE on here already agrees with you on.
This was not addressed to me, but I will address it. I think some warnings are very beneficial. "Smoking causes death" is not going to get a chain smoker to instantly quit, but it will occasionally put a thought about considering quitting in their heads. That, along with lack of tv advertising how great marlboros taste....

Here is something closer to home. Formula. Here in Denmark, all formula is marked. Even the name is not formula - modermælkserstatning - literal translation "mothers milk replacement." And the box has a warning: "give to babies that can't be breast fed. Always talk with your doctor or nurse before using this product. The danish health department recommends only breast feeding for the first six months, and continued breast feeding for a year or longer...." and so on. ON every single box, carton, bottle of formula. The warning does not say you can not use it, or that it is bad or evil. But it also doesn't say it is for babies that you don't want to breast feed ... it assumes that you CAN and should breast feed, and that this other milk product is a substitute for the real thing.

Some warnings do work, and are beneficial. Now, a book is not the same as cigarettes or formula. Parenting books are opinion pieces. Often they are made to look like fact with poofed up, twisted statistics, but they aren't. They are "guidelines" "opinions" and "always ask your doctor blah blah blah...." all of them have a disclaimer. I don't think it is rational to have a warning about an opinion. You want to write a book about under water basket weaving, or how to make a bomb, or baby wise, or co-sleeping.... be my guest. I have a brain. I can chose whether to buy it or not. I might feel bad for a sleep deprived new mom who picks up a CIO book, but I should not be able to censor her option to do so. If I could, then someone could turn around and censor my book, feeling sorry for me, because I was a sleep deprived new mom picking up a book about AP.
post #98 of 158
Looks like my last posted got deleted. Interesting. I have no idea why.

The idea of the OP buying books so others can't read them doesn't sit well with me, but of course she does have the right to do it.

All I know is, if I were looking for a particular book-- ANY book-- and found out someone had bought up all the copies because they disagreed with the contents and didn't want others to read it, I'd be pretty freaking annoyed.
post #99 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by teale View Post
THANK YOU. I'm sorry, but these books are on the side of the spectrum where children have died as a result of someone reading these books and practicing them to a tee. SURELY, you can understand that, and understand why another mother would want to save a new mom the possibility of not only damaging her child for life emotionally, but possibly saving that child from death.

Extreme, yes. But those books are literally an instruction booklet on how to abuse an infant. :
Just wondering if anyone has actually read a James Dobson book? I have read several and I do not recall a recommendation to CIO or recommendations to abuse children (I wouldn't have read the book if these things were recommended).
post #100 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuzzmom View Post
Looks like my last posted got deleted. Interesting. I have no idea why.
No posts have been deleted on this thread. Perhaps it was a snafu on your end?

Quote:
All I know is, if I were looking for a particular book-- ANY book-- and found out someone had bought up all the copies because they disagreed with the contents and didn't want others to read it, I'd be pretty freaking annoyed.
I'd be pretty in awe that someone had the money, time, and inclination to do that.
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