People need to know how important is to research

[ChickFamily]

about making a decision like this. Now I know I do not have to tell you all this but ever since my second son is not circed I decided to do research THEN only to figure out how to care for him (to my suprise nothing really) anyway so I have been showing hubby all the stuff I found and I started expressing to him that Im upset we did it to ds1, he then says you know it is b/c we never researched it, I as in he figured since he was that is what you do and I too thought the same thing b/c well I dont have a penis and my whole family said to do it. I feel bad that we did it to ds1 and to top it off he said we wouldnt of done it to him if we actually researched which then broke my heart even more that we did that. I definetly think it needs to be a requirement to research stuff that like b/c it is a big decision. I know most of you would say its the parents fault for not researching but honestly if you do not know any different then just dont think to question it. I wish the hospital and dr's would be honest and give the info and let you actually think about the decision before doing it, which leads me up to my next point. I think hospitals shouldnt do it at all and that if people want it done they have to go to their peds, WHY you ask? b/c when I went into the hospital with my first born I was scared of everything b/c well it was the first time I had a child so I didnt know what to expect. After I had my sweet boy they asked me if I wanted it done and stood their waiting for an answer and I said yes and that was that, no more talk about it or sharing any info with me or anything. I can bet you that after holding that sweet baby in my arms and given time to think about it I know I wouldnt of done it and then to have to take him to the ped and be there while they were doing it I know it wouldnt of happened b/c dh told me that could never watch that.

So anyway I cant press enough how important is to research!!!!!

Oh and also something that made me feel a little less bad about it, I asked dh what he thought about learning all this and realizing that its not right to do how he felt about himself, He said that he doesnt show any anger or being upset with his parents b.c they just didnt know any better, he doesnt know what its like to be intact and his stuff works well so while he wouldnt do it now it doesnt bother him he is and so I only hope that my son will feel the same way and know that we love him just didnt make a good choice, a choice we should of let him make.

[Quirky]

As Maya Angelou says, when you know better, you do better! You didn't know with your first, and you're right, the hospitals and doctors completely failed to meet their legal and ethical responsibilities to educate you. But good for you for doing the research yourself and making a better choice for your second son. Many, many parents don't have the courage to do things differently even when they do know better, so you can feel really good about that. :

[PuppyFluffer]

ChickFamily, if a stranger came up to you on the street when you were visibly pregnant with your first baby and handed you a card with information about the unnecessary nature of circ and the damage of it and web links to further investigate, do you think you would have looked into it?

As someone interested in sharing this information with people in real life...I wonder how best to do so.

I wonder how well received the info would be if presented to pregnant moms from a stranger on the street with a brief chat and an info card.

[eepster]

Yes it is really unconcisoinable what passes for "informed concent" in US hospitals regarding this.

Any other surgical proceedure and you get a long explanation of the possible out comes (when I had a stone removed from my bile duct the Dr explained about the slight risk of pancreatitis {1%} and a very rare complication that would change the surgery from and endoscopic proceedure one to an open one) but with circ, there is no mention of the 2% risk of severe bleeding, the 10% risk of meatal stenosis, or 70% risk of adhesions, never mind the less common risks like accidental amputaion of the penis.

[tammyswanson]

Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer

ChickFamily, if a stranger came up to you on the street when you were visibly pregnant with your first baby and handed you a card with information about the unnecessary nature of circ and the damage of it and web links to further investigate, do you think you would have looked into it?

As someone interested in sharing this information with people in real life...I wonder how best to do so.

I wonder how well received the info would be if presented to pregnant moms from a stranger on the street with a brief chat and an info card.

That would be awesome to do Puppy Fluffer! Once I get the correct photopaper, I'm planning to be more covert and 'plant' them in maternity and baby books at the Babies R Us stores, and put them on public bulletin boards. If I worked in a hospital or ped's office, I would put them in those 'information' stations they have on walls.

[tammyswanson]

Chick, I really respect you for learning what circ is about and not doing it to your DS2. There are people that won't even consider that circ is wrong, even if they get all the information in the world. Good for you for getting informed!

[tutucrazy]

You are very right that people don't know better and don't do the research. For most women the "research" is asking a few friends what they did with their sons.

The one thing I can encourage you to do is to help your sons understand the importance of genital integrity so that they won't just assume that they should do it to their children. Make genital integrity a part of your discussions as your children grow so that they adopt your newfound knowledge about circumcision.

Now there are people that you can share info with until you are blue in the face that still decide to circ. This is always very upsetting to me especially when it is someone who I am very close with. My SIL and brother are having a boy in July. I have sent countless things to them to educate them but they have never said a peep to me about the dvds, books and emails I send. I assume that they just don't want to be educated.

[ChickFamily]

Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer

ChickFamily, if a stranger came up to you on the street when you were visibly pregnant with your first baby and handed you a card with information about the unnecessary nature of circ and the damage of it and web links to further investigate, do you think you would have looked into it?

As someone interested in sharing this information with people in real life...I wonder how best to do so.

I wonder how well received the info would be if presented to pregnant moms from a stranger on the street with a brief chat and an info card.

Most definetly and you want to know why? b/c if I would of read something like that that would of got my brain going which in turn would led me on to learn about it. When I was pregnant with ds1 I ASSUMED that is how a boy should be, no questions asked anything and even more so since dh was we both just never talked about it and when we were asked at the hospital I just said yes.

As another poster pointed out, if the nurses and dr's would of went on as well with the risks (even though low) about what could happen from a circ I wouldnt of done it. The thought of knowing something bad could of happened I definetly wouldnt do it. I wish too they would of at least said, it is not medically necessary but if you want to you can, something b/c all that was ever said was "do you want him circed?" and when that time came "by we are taking him to be circed"

Im begining to feel not as bad about what we did to ds1 (I will always feel bad but before it was eating me up) b/c I know that both dh and I have learned and I will also teach my boys too and others.

[fruitful womb]

Originally Posted by ChickFamily

Most definetly and you want to know why? b/c if I would of read something like that that would of got my brain going which in turn would led me on to learn about it. When I was pregnant with ds1 I ASSUMED that is how a boy should be, no questions asked anything and even more so since dh was we both just never talked about it and when we were asked at the hospital I just said yes.

As another poster pointed out, if the nurses and dr's would of went on as well with the risks (even though low) about what could happen from a circ I wouldnt of done it. The thought of knowing something bad could of happened I definetly wouldnt do it. I wish too they would of at least said, it is not medically necessary but if you want to you can, something b/c all that was ever said was "do you want him circed?" and when that time came "by we are taking him to be circed"

Im begining to feel not as bad about what we did to ds1 (I will always feel bad but before it was eating me up) b/c I know that both dh and I have learned and I will also teach my boys too and others.

Hi Chick,

Re: your hospital experience, what would've been your reaction if no one asked you if you wanted to circ your ds? Instead, they properly informed you on how to care for your intact newborn, "Never retract the foreskin, wipe like a finger - any questions?"

btw, this is called the 'Sleeping Dog's' policy. Notice how there isn't much wiggle room for soliciting unwarranted surgery.

I hope I don't seem rude, where are my manners? Welcome to MDC Chick! There are many mothers like yourself here. I am one of them, first ds circ'd the others are not. I didn't have the info then. But since knowing better I've done better, just like you.

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by tammyswanson

Chick, I really respect you for learning what circ is about and not doing it to your DS2. There are people that won't even consider that circ is wrong, even if they get all the information in the world. Good for you for getting informed!

:

[leila1213]

Originally Posted by tammyswanson

Chick, I really respect you for learning what circ is about and not doing it to your DS2. There are people that won't even consider that circ is wrong, even if they get all the information in the world. Good for you for getting informed!

Ugh, not to diss my friend or derail the thread, but what would you say to someone who 'knew better' before having her second son and thought b/c the first was done the 2nd needed to be too? She is prego again, don't know the sex yet...

[ChickFamily]

another thing if ONE person just one would of put any thought in my head as why it shouldnt be done I would of looked it up at that time but no one ever talked about or if they did it was all for it. You have no idea how ONE person can impact another.

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by leila1213

Ugh, not to diss my friend or derail the thread, but what would you say to someone who 'knew better' before having her second son and thought b/c the first was done the 2nd needed to be too? She is prego again, don't know the sex yet...

this is exactly what happened to my (ex) friend.

[tammyswanson]

Originally Posted by leila1213

Ugh, not to diss my friend or derail the thread, but what would you say to someone who 'knew better' before having her second son and thought b/c the first was done the 2nd needed to be too? She is prego again, don't know the sex yet...

My so called best friend (who I try to not talk to much/email anymore) did this to her first DS, even though I told her about it, showed that my DS is perfectly normal (he's intact), sent her links to videos of circ, even bought her Dr Paul Fleiss's book "What the doctor may NOT tell you about circ", and she did it anyway (AND she was a nurse!).

I find I can't have a decent relationship with her anymore, seeing as she let that happen to her son and she had plenty of information at her disposal to look at! I didn't get heavy with her either, I just sent her the facts. Now she's trying to 'make up' with me since I am obviously ticked and am ignoring her, but I can't help feeling completely different about her.

We have limited contact, but if she got pregnant with another boy, I would tell her that if she has this one circumcised too, that I will never talk to her again. I then pray that if she has another one it is a girl and no more boys! Right now she's having such problems with her DS as far as him being rambunctious (like all boys, ha ha) that I wonder if she'll have any more since she's getting older now.

[jenP]

Originally Posted by fruitful womb

Re: your hospital experience, what would've been your reaction if no one asked you if you wanted to circ your ds? Instead, they properly informed you on how to care for your intact newborn, "Never retract the foreskin, wipe like a finger - any questions?"

btw, this is called the 'Sleeping Dog's' policy. Notice how there isn't much wiggle room for soliciting unwarranted surgery.

Wouldn't this be wonderful? Is there such a place anywhere in the US?

Jen

[fruitful womb]

Originally Posted by jenP

Wouldn't this be wonderful? Is there such a place anywhere in the US?

Jen

Yes, it really would be wonderful if our American Medical Establishment practiced on ethical grounds regarding unwarrented genital surgery.

&

There absolutely should be a sleeping dog's policy here in America


There is one in New Zealand. Before that went into effect, the circ rate was high. Overnight, after it took effect, **the circ rate plummeted to near zero and to this day the circ rate is still that low.



Every country that respects the integrity of their male members do not ask parents if they want their son circumcised. They might hold their breath and hope to God that an American parent or parents that come from a cutting culture doesn't ask THEM (the doctors) to circumcise the newborn's healthy penis. These are usually military families who choose to give birth off base.



When asked that dreaded question, "Do you desire to circ?", it sends the message that circumcision "must be a good thing". I mean, "The doctor wouldn't ask if it wasn't a good thing right?"



**Here is more info on the Rise and Fall of New Zealand's circ rates.

[ParisApril]

Originally Posted by ChickFamily

So anyway I cant press enough how important is to research!!!!!

Knowledge is power!

When I was pregnant with DS my DH came to a check up with the midwife with me. The first question the midwife asked was, "Are you going to circ?"

DH said yes and I said no at the same time! LOL DH "had" to be circ'd at 5 because of a problem. Most likely due to improper care and treatment of his penis. He was born in '76.

I turned to DH and said we will not be circ'ing DS. I have read all the info and we will not be doing it. I will show you all the info at home.

I am very lucky to have a DH who trusts my judgement. When we got home I got out all the articles and he asked me for my summary and was okay with not circ'ing after hearing all I had to tell him.

[hakunangovi]

Chick, congratulations on educating yourself and having the courage to not fall into the same trap that was set by the doctors and nurses when your first son was born.

Quite a few years ago I was waiting for my car in a tire store along with a very pregnant lady. We were the only ones in the waiting room. I screwed up the courage to ask her what the current concensus on circumcision was. She said that in prenatal class they had been shown a video, and after watching what was done, there was no way they were doing 'that' to their son. I congratulated her on her wise decision and wrote down a couple of websites for her (like www.mothersagainstcirc.org & www.cirp.org ) in case she needed some info to back up her decision. I truly believe that if most people are exposed to the facts, that they will choose to leave their sons intact. As someone else pointed out, many people consider research to be asking a couple of friends what they did. Not exactly a source of accurate info !!

Of course if the medical establishment would live by by their oath "First, do no harm", and actualy had the ethics to adopt the "sleeping dog" policy ,as mentioned above, we probably would not be having this discussion at all !!

[Treece]

~naking~

Well, as long as American doctors are paid by procedure, this will continue.

ongrats chick and welcome