Benefits of intact...

[heamae]

Can someone tell me what the benefits of intact are. Thanks

[robertandenith]

First, if you are a natural mama, how come someone who practice natural and/or organic living would want their son's foreskin amputated? It's total illogical. Circumcision is way invasive procedure to prevent such infections people talk about, infections that may NEVER happen. One proof is that all the male in my family for exception of 2 are intact (mind you, the majority of the people in my family are males - I have more male cousins than females, then they also have their sons that have been confirmed all the little ones are all intact! ) So 3 generations of men w/o infections running around or STD's or HIV. I think the benefits of being an intact male is equally to the benefits of being an intact female, probably more becuase it creates natural intercourse in the male essential for the mechanism of sexual intercourse. This even affects the women.

Anyways, here are some links:

http://www.noharmm.org/advantage.htm

http://ezinearticles.com/?What-Are-t...skin?&id=58669

Benefits of Foreskin Restoration
http://www.norm-socal.org/benefits.html

ITA: My dad is one that is circ because my grandmother didn't know any better and My cousin just got circ'ed as an adult bcoz of ignorance of his doctor! :

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

More nerve endings = more pleasure
No worry if you have enough skin to cover an erection or not
G-Spot stimulation
No pain and healing to deal with
Sex is how it was intended to be
No risk of to much skin being removed
No risk of blood loose when circ is done
No risk of infection
No risk of death
No risk of MRSA through that open wound

[beru]

To me, that just sounds like such an odd question. It would be like someone came up to me and asked, "What are the benefits of not having a nipple ring?" or "What are the benefits of not removing your toenails?" or "What are the benefits of being an intact woman?"

An extrememly radical thing like the amputation of healthy tissue should have overwhelmingly clear and subtantial advantages-with no less-invasive alternatives. That is not the case with circumcision. To me, it is a no-brainer. We don't cut healthy body parts off of our babies. Intact penises don't need defending.

[kiara7]

:

Intact is the default. Circ is amputation of healthy tissue. There are no benefits to removing healthy non-diseased tissue on a newborn baby that is not able to give consent.

[jessjgh1]

Provides protection during the newborn period -- from urine etc. diapers.
Incidences of meatal stenosis are due to circumcision and irritation from being exposed to urine/poop and diapers.

The glans is actually supposed to be an internal organ-- the foreskin protects the glans, provides a covering, and keeps the glans moist and more sensative.

The foreskin has sexual function.... sensitive and sensory

Ah, need to go, just had a second before the kiddos needed me(-;

Jessica

[heamae]

Ok so let me explain better about my situation. I didnt have time earlier. So we found out we were having a boy and avoided talking about circumcision bc dh wants it done and I dont. We argued many times about it. Last argument ended with dh wanting to talk to a doctor about it, leaving me to make the appointment. I kept putting it off. Then I told him that we should just wait till after the baby is born to make any decisions. We were going to have a home birth so we could decide after. Well we ended up at the hospital and I cant tell you how many times we were asked about circ. They were very understanding when I said no, its just that they asked a lot which was just hard bc we werent talking about it. Well baby is a week old and dh has brought it up again. Wants to talk to a doc and get his opinion. So I made an app. for a consultation. Then I asked dh what he thinks he is going to get from this. I dont see it changing my mind. I told him I have looked at all of the reason they say to circ. and dont think any of them are good enough to take something so perfect and ruin it. I kind of went of over the reasons the doc might give as to why to do it and then he asked what the benefits of leaving him intact are. It was an odd question that I couldnt answer. Like they say circ reduces penile cancer but on the other side, it doesnt reduce it enough to say its a benefit. Pro circ. have what they consider benefits so dh wanted to know benefits of being intact. Does that make sense?? I am really not sure what to do at this point bc we are both very set at what we want. So far I have won bc he hasnt been cut but it is causing resentment between us. When I change his diapers I sort of hide the penis from dh bc I dont want him to make a comment about it. He hasnt changed any diapers. I am thinking maybe I should make dh look at it and tell me what is so wrong with it that it needs to have surgery!! I dont know!!

[calngavinsmom]

Good for you for keeping your babe safe Here is a list of benefits from the Mothering article:

What Are the Foreskin's Functions?

The foreskin has numerous protective, sensory, and sexual functions.


http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...cumcision.html

I don't know if that is what you were looking for, but I hope that helps you convince your dh to keep your son whole.

Take care!
Tara

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by heamae

I am thinking maybe I should make dh look at it and tell me what is so wrong with it that it needs to have surgery!! I dont know!!

I'd have a conversation about this, he should know that the foreskin is normal and should know what is son looks like. Contrast it to pictures of the penis after a circumcision
(warning, Graphic medical pictures)
http://newborns.stanford.edu/CircumcisionBasics.html

Also, does he understand that with an adult foreskin, during arousal the foreskin typically moves back and looks pretty much like a circumcised penis?? And that a baby's foreskin needs to be forcibly retracted (adhesions broken) to perform the circumcision... for no medical reason?

I'm so sorry this is not resolved. Please find out what your dh issue is and then come back for more info. Or just tell him NO WAY and end the strife and enjoy your baby.

I'm so sorry you are going through this now, you should be enjoying your time with your baby.

Jessica

[liseux]

One of the main reasons that the AAP does not recommend circ for all newborns is b/c that even if you count the "benefits" of circ, the complications of the surgery far outweigh any "benefits."

The circs done these days often look nothing like dad. Does he know that they are done loosely now and keep more foreskin than in our generation?

I just had a hospital born babe in April and I thought it was interesting how many nurses and drs were opposed to circ. One nurse told me she saw how "circumcision weakens babies." They have a harder time breastfeeding, cry at every diaper change for a good month and have a highe chance of infection, not to mention adhesions, bleeding problems & urethral issues.

[heamae]

I have told dh that we should let our son decide if he wants it done and to dh there is no question that he will grow up and want it done and then it will be more painful and he would have to take time off from work or school. So it would be "easier" to di it as a baby.

[tennisdude23]

Originally Posted by heamae

I have told dh that we should let our son decide if he wants it done and to dh there is no question that he will grow up and want it done and then it will be more painful and he would have to take time off from work or school. So it would be "easier" to di it as a baby.

I hope you realize the stupidity of this argument. I'm an intact college age guy and very happy that I am normal and not sliced and diced. I suggest that your husband grows a pair and leaves his son's penis the hell alone. If he has a legitimate concern, then let it be addressed. But preposterous arguments and irrational thinking have absolutely no place in such a conversation.

[Night_Nurse]

Please do not allow your son to be circumcised. I just commented on a thread where someone had their baby circed and she spoke of the screaming and pain and the approximately 30 minutes the procedure took. She regrets her decision but she didn't know the facts before she allowed it to be done. You do know. I think if you allow your husband to make the decision that your son will want a circ one day so might as well do it now that you will really regret it forever and then also have resentment toward your DH.

Have the two of you watched a circ video? Has your DH seen the Penn and Teller circ episode? If not, I recommend watching both.
Most males left intact opt NOT to be circed as adults. If he did choose that, it wouldn't hurt him more, he would just be able to vocalize it (while a baby can not). Plus, an adult gets great narcotics for pain control and an adult doesn't pee or poop his pants (that also caused the baby pain - eliminating on an open wound).

My advice, if you do go to the doctor for a "consultation", don't take the baby. Let the baby stay home w/ a family member or friend. I'd hate for your DH to pressure you into circing while you were there. Seriously.

[jessjgh1]

heamae

I have told dh that we should let our son decide if he wants it done and to dh there is no question that he will grow up and want it done and then it will be more painful and he would have to take time off from work or school. So it would be "easier" to di it as a baby.

Originally Posted by tennisdude23

I hope you realize the stupidity of this argument. I'm an intact college age guy and very happy that I am normal and not sliced and diced. I suggest that your husband grows a pair and leaves his son's penis the hell alone. If he has a legitimate concern, then let it be addressed. But preposterous arguments and irrational thinking have absolutely no place in such a conversation.

heama mentioned that her dh believes that his son will want to be circumcised... a opinion that is shared by many, no matter how irrational it may seem.
tennisdude you're perspective is very welcome here (indeed helpful, valid, passionate), but in my opinion your judgement and tone is unwarranted (to me off putting to someone who is seeking help).

Heamae,
I dont' believe it is easier for a baby to be circumcised. Certainly, it is 'easier' on the parents because they cant' be told the pain and confusion of an infant... but it is MORE painful because an infant cannot receive pain relief like an adult can, nor can he understand what is going on.
And an infant cant' take 'time off' from anything like an older person can, he just has to depend on his parents to protect and help him-- which unfortunately, if he has been circumcised, didnt' happen.

Your dh's concerns can certainly be disputed-- there's really no reason NOT to let your son decide. He very well will want to remain intact and if not, then that's his decision.
What other information would likely help your dh? Sounds like he's just pulling whatever he can.

Jessica

[jenniepaige]

I guess for me it just boils down to the fact that I don't believe that it is my right to forever alter my son's body because it's a societal norm. I just don't. So, the benefits can be that you are respecting your sons body and his right to make his decision about it when the time comes. I just don't feel that the parent should have that choice unless there is some health reason for it which, there isn't although some old belief's are very strong about this. It's tough but I just don't see any benefits to it.

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by heamae

Wants to talk to a doc and get his opinion. So I made an app. for a consultation. Then I asked dh what he thinks he is going to get from this. I dont see it changing my mind.

My dh and I were undecided at the time my son was born too.
I was able to call our pedi and asked him a lot of information over the phone. You could certainly call ahead and see what information you find from the differnt doctors around you.

Unfortunately, it really varies. If you poll 10 doctors you'd probably get 10 answers and they will be split between circ is fine and unlikely to cause problems, neutral, and there's just no reason to circ. So if you feel strongly that circumcising is wrong, don't let your self get pushed into a corner if you do go and set up a consultation with a doctor.

I feel very fortunate that by luck I had picked a pedi that was neutral-- which is odd considering he is likely intact and happens to serve a predominantly intact culture (Chinese within a community with a high Asian population)-- even so he was very 'even' in his information and probably so because my dh and I were in disagreement and he KNEW that. He didn't want to offend my dh, for example, so he stuck to a very basic: "well I tell my clients that it is really not necessary, no medical reason, not recommended by AAP etc, and that many of my clients are intact... but if you decide to circumcise, there are rarely problems and I can recommend a doctor who does a nice job" (barf). So even someone who doesn't perform circumcision, mentioned he would leave his sons intact... etc, didn't really come across with a strong case. He didn't mention 'benefits' of intactness, etc. Doctor just don't talk this way... they don't learn this way... and in our culture most of them are going to be just as biased as your husband is.

However, the team of midwives that assisted my sons birth and followed up with me afterwards were also very supportive....and gave stronger answers supporting intactness (such as mentioning to dh that they do see problems with breastfeeding, etc....) I think what they really helped my dh see was that it was really affecting me... because I was trying to protect my son and there just was no medical reason to do it-- all I could see were the risks of circumcision.

Everyone weighs risks and benefits based on the information they have at hand.... but also we start with what is normal and natural.... There's no reason to 'justify' intactness.... it just 'is'.

Please keep coming back with questions and update... so many mothers have been in a very similar circumstance and come through with their husband's support after getting him the information that he needed to feel comfortable.

It isn't really about the 'dads' but often this issue is very personal to them, perhaps w/o really realizing it. Its difficult to separate that and realize why they might feel attacked... and that's often an angle to keep to yourself, to help you understand why he might seem resistant (or even unwilling to discuss).

Jessica

[jenniepaige]

Oh, and Dh and I had the same debate and I only had 2 people who actually agreed with me-my mom (we are very close) was very pro penis cutting.
I just told DH that if he could come up with some valid medical reason to get one done other then for looks then we would discus it. I also told him that he would need to find a doctor (at the time we were planning a home birth) and that I wanted nothing to do with it and refused to be there when they cut him. Needless to say, he opted not to cut him. BUT it took SEVERAL months for him to come to the decision. I do however feel that it is important for him to be on board with you because it could be a source of contempt in the future.

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by calngavinsmom

Good for you for keeping your babe safe Here is a list of benefits from the Mothering article:

[I][COLOR="Purple"]What Are the Foreskin's Functions?

The foreskin has numerous protective, sensory, and sexual functions.

That's a great summary, Tara.... I think for me, realizing that the foreskin is a biological important body part was eye opening. Sounds crazy, but circumcision was just so 'usual' that I hadn't really thought about the foreskin just being, well, normal, harmless, just there. A normal body part... why would you remove it?

Being able to list actual biological functions, in addition to realizing that, no matter the opinion, removing the foreskin alters the sexual functioning of the penis, and realizing the risks of circumcision... it just made me fight to keep ds intact. Even before i figured everything out.
Learning most of the world leaves their sons intact, and the US is leaving more and more boys intact every year (now quite close to 50/50) also just made it so much easier to feel confident about my decision.
I'll say that my son is over 5 now and I just keep finding more and more reasons to support intactness and more and more risks of circumcision.

Jessica

[tennisdude23]

My point is that the argument, "he will have it done in the future, no matter what," is absolutely ridiculous, and everybody knows that. If you are going to try to back your side, you have to do a better job than saying basically, "well i want it done, just because." There is no basis whatsoever behind the husband's claim in this case. I suggest that the OP's husband does a semblance of research before coming back to this issue.

[rabbitmum]

I'm sorry you have to deal with this! I'm sure if you stand your ground and refuse to let it, happen eventually your husband will be ok with it, hopefully even come to realise that it was the right decision.

It's so weird to read about all you people who have to defend your sons from circumcision. Coming from a culture that doesn't circumcise, it seems just as strange as if I should have to argue against having my daughter circumcised! I mean, where do you even start? It's just so obvious that those body parts shouldn't be cut off, under any circumstances.

I hope you manage to show him that your son's penis is perfect as it is - I wouldn't come with him to the doctor if I were you, it will only give him hope that he will get his way. It's like saying to a toddler "No, we're not buying any ice cream today, I can come with you to the kiosk if you like but we're not buying anything." That's just setting yourself up for a bigger argument!