The 'ol Classic Excuse

[Rhiannon77]

We've all heard it. I know someone who knows someone that had to have a circumcision as an adult b/c of "problems". I'm curious, do you think this was largely due to the misinformation that doctors gave to the seldom few that used to choose not to circumcise? Push it back. Clean under the foreskin. Etc, etc. Of course, there were going to be problems if it's mistreated like that. Sheesh.

[BamaDude]

I'm sure that's a contributing factor, but we as humans also love a good gruesome tale of woe, particularly if it includes lots of gory details.

Compare the tales of adult circumcisions to how we frequently hear in lurid detail about the epic labors that took 36 hours (or longer) and necessitated a last-minute episiotomy or C-section, but we almost never hear about the babies that more-or-less just popped right out with no complications.

99 intact guys who lived their whole lives without ever having a foreskin-related problem don't make for very interesting stories, but the one guy who did have a problem with his foreskin and had to get circ'd as an adult usually does.

[MommytoB]

my grandpa was circ'ed as an adult in WW2 he had no issues with his foreskin but the miltary doctor said it would be better for him - he said it was painful. He believed in the babies don't feel pain myth he said if you don't end up circing don't circ at all because it's too painful. he said if i wanted to circ to circ my son when he was a baby .

Many parents don't realize the habbits of the past caused many older generations problem with their foreskin by making it too dry out and too full of scars vs a non messed with unscarred foreskin .
Remove the scarred out foreskin of course those people would feel better for awhile until their penis started to get dry out by the time they get older end up with a severe buried penis by the time they get into the late 70's.

[Sasharna]

The only man I know who had to be circ'd as an adult (for medical reasons) was from a country where almost nobody does so. I doubt he lacked information about how to care for an intact penis. I'm not sure if he was misinformed by the doc regarding his options though.

[eepster]

As bamadude points out "everything is fine" is a pretty unmemorable story.

I'm sure that many of those who did need it though, did suffer from improper care. On top of that, you will have many who were "treated" for thing which aren't actual problems (balloning, not being retractable by X age, dribbling, etc.) And ofcourse, those who do have genuine problems (yeast infections, true phimosis) are almost never offered effective less invasive treatments for their problems, Drs tend to jump straight to circ for anything.

[Monarchgrrl]

All three of DW's brothers are uncomfortable being intact. One circed his son because of it. All of them have said that they want to get it done but are too scared of the pain. (and of course none have actually researched what life would be like with a circed penis or talked to any doctors about the issue!) They haven't exactly explained their issue in detail to me. Something about something pulling and painful stretching of something...er sorry I don't have any penile experience. Anyway, DW always thought that if we had a son that we would circ because of that, until I quickly changed her mind on that one. But I think that her brothers issues might be genetic or something.

[tutucrazy]

This one comes from both improper care and from foreskin-ignorant doctors.

I've heard of countless boys that were circed around age 5 because "their foreskin did not retract". Well gee no duh, it isn't supposed to. People don't seem to get that retraction can take up to adulthood. The only thing a child's penis needs to do is pee. Retraction is something that comes with sexual maturity. Sure some young boys retract but most don't until between 10years of age and adulthood.

The other common "problems" are really mostly just separation symptoms that are totally normal processes that don't need any treatment. Both boys' and girls' genitals develop throughout childhood. With boys the changes are more obvious simply b/c they are not as internal as girls. With the process of separation of the foreskin there are going to be symptoms at least 97% of the time. Doctors that don't understand/recognize these symptoms confuse them with problems that need medical attention.

[Bm31]

Originally Posted by Monarchgrrl

All three of DW's brothers are uncomfortable being intact. One circed his son because of it. All of them have said that they want to get it done but are too scared of the pain. (and of course none have actually researched what life would be like with a circed penis or talked to any doctors about the issue!) They haven't exactly explained their issue in detail to me. Something about something pulling and painful stretching of something...er sorry I don't have any penile experience.

This could also be a case of "the grass is greener...." Suggest to them a too-tight circ or maybe some circ-caused adhesions and then they'll really experience some painful pulling and stretching. They've bought into the myth of the perfect, trouble-free, low maintenance cut penis.

Also some of these stories are old wives tales. I recently had a convo with my great aunt who said my great grandfather "had" to have it done when he was in his 60's. It didn't take her long to really think about it and decide that, as far as she knew, he really hadn't had any problems with it (somehow he managed to father 9 children!), and that they probably just talked him into it to grab some extra $$$ while they were treating him for prostate issues. :

[Sasharna]

Originally Posted by Monarchgrrl

All three of DW's brothers are uncomfortable being intact. One circed his son because of it. All of them have said that they want to get it done but are too scared of the pain. (and of course none have actually researched what life would be like with a circed penis or talked to any doctors about the issue!) They haven't exactly explained their issue in detail to me. Something about something pulling and painful stretching of something...er sorry I don't have any penile experience. Anyway, DW always thought that if we had a son that we would circ because of that, until I quickly changed her mind on that one. But I think that her brothers issues might be genetic or something.

This sounds like what my ex described. He believed DS1 would be better off with a circumcision. And I certainly didn't know any better at the time. Figured it was best to listen to the dude with the penis, y'know? (DS2 is intact.)

FWIW, the ex was happier after he himself was circumcised (I mean the problem was resolved)... or so he claimed. We were already separated when it happened so I have no idea if it was true. Generally nothing he said ever was.

I hope you'll post if you ever find out exactly what the condition is.

[BugMacGee]

I get this at work when I discuss it. The "I once took care of an intact 4 year old that had urinary problems" or "I know so many people that hadto have it done later...."

Ugh. Seriously. Remove your breasts. Remove your cervix, etc because I guarantee you've known someone who eventually got breast/ cervical (insert any organ here) cancer.

Why is this issue so difficult to see that way???

[KaylaBeanie]

I think it's largely from forced retraction from birth.

Another thing I'd like to touch on are all these men who supposedly want it done as adults and wish their parents had done it to them as infants. I always wonder when I hear that. My guess is that the boy was raised in an anti-intact family. Let's say one of three boys is intact because they couldn't afford to circ him as an infant. Obviously he'd grow up thinking that he had the weird, bad penis. My friend's boyfriend was like that...he wished he'd been cut. I'd guess that an intactivist woman could change any adult man's mind on wanting to voluntarily circ though After all, my circ'd ex was shocked that someone(me) would find a natural penis more appealing than a cut one, and he never let the subject drop after that.

[Claire and Boys]

Living in an intact culture, you just don't hear of people "having" to be circumcised, or people who are intact wishing they were circed. Here it'd be like wishing you had your appendix out, because most people just think of it in similar terms to that OR they think it's solely a religious issue. You'd only want it removed if you had a problem with it.

IMO, intact men only wish they are circumcised if they live in a circumcising culture - because they have it ingrained in them early in that cut is normal, better, etc from peers, family, whatever.

This is what always bugs me when I hear this. Men wishing they were circumcised is not an issue with the foreskin, it's an issue with the culture they are growing up in.

[needhelpplease]

Living in an intact culture, you just don't hear of people "having" to be circumcised,

I wish! Unfortunately I know of 2 people "having to" be circumcised in the UK, diagnosed by UK doctors, done on the NHS. One was only about 4yo and this was fairly recently.

I do think it's mostly due to the doctor being unaware of other options, and/or the problems being caused by improper (usually over the top) care in the first place. It's just sad it seems to happen in intact cultures as well (though possibly not Scandinavia) because it is still seen as an appropriate way of dealing with things.

[Claire and Boys]

Originally Posted by needhelpplease

I wish! Unfortunately I know of 2 people "having to" be circumcised in the UK, diagnosed by UK doctors, done on the NHS. One was only about 4yo and this was fairly recently.

I do think it's mostly due to the doctor being unaware of other options, and/or the problems being caused by improper (usually over the top) care in the first place. It's just sad it seems to happen in intact cultures as well (though possibly not Scandinavia) because it is still seen as an appropriate way of dealing with things.

Yeah, I know it happens, my husband is one. What I'm trying to say (And probably not doing very well) is you don't hear of countless people talking about it - while I get the impression on American message boards that everyone and his dog knows "someone" who had to have it done and using it as an excuse to circ. Everyone knows someone who's had their appendix out, but no one is rushing to have their kids appendixes out at birth. It's only a big deal in a circumcising culture.

[hakunangovi]

Although improper care in childhood, as a result of improper instruction from a doctor, probably accounts for a few of those cases that result in a circumcision later on, there seem to be lots of intact men that survived just fine in spite of being retracted early on by their well meaning parents.

I believe that most of those who "had to be circumcised" are victims of a woefully ignorant medical system. There have been two cases in my family. My grandfather, who grew up in Ireland, had to be circumcised at 12 because "his foreskin got so tight he couldn't pee", according to my mother. That made no sense to me, but at the time I did not question further. I have since asked my aunt about it, but she says she has no idea, that people just did not talk about things like that in those days. I suspect that he may have suffered a case of paraphimosis, as a lot of the literature recommended a circumcision rather than methods to simply replace the foreskin foreward again.

The other was about 16 years ago. He got an infection at age 11, and quickly recovered with antibiotics, but the doctor noticed that he was not retractable at all (even though he had been at a younger age) and he was circumcised because of that. The urologist did not offer any less invasive procedures. With the advent of the internet parents (and doctors)are now in a position where information is readily available to them, and circumcisions should not "have" to be done any more. The website posted in another thread - www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2490/8/6 offers a solution for even the worst cases of phimosis. There are still many doctors who think that a foreskin should be retractable by a certain age, and just as many that only know how to whack them off for any "problem", be it real or percieved. Medical schools seriously need to update what they teach !!

[MegBoz]

Originally Posted by Rhiannon77

We've all heard it. I know someone who knows someone that had to have a circumcision as an adult b/c of "problems". I'm curious, do you think this was largely due to the misinformation that doctors gave to the seldom few that used to choose not to circumcise? .

Personally - I had one boyfriend who was intact (European) & he had problems & was considering have a circ as an adult. So it's not a total myth & I didnt' hear it from doctor's giving bad advice.

[calpurnia]

Originally Posted by Claire and Boys

Yeah, I know it happens, my husband is one. What I'm trying to say (And probably not doing very well) is you don't hear of countless people talking about it - while I get the impression on American message boards that everyone and his dog knows "someone" who had to have it done and using it as an excuse to circ. Everyone knows someone who's had their appendix out, but no one is rushing to have their kids appendixes out at birth. It's only a big deal in a circumcising culture.

i agree - i have never ever had a conversation about circumcision in the UK. all the mothers i know (oddly) have boys, they are all intact, it's absolutely never been a topic of conversation.

i do however know someone who "had" to get circumcised at about 10. because it's such a rare thing to hear i do believe that it was necessary in his case

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by calpurnia

i agree - i have never ever had a conversation about circumcision in the UK. all the mothers i know (oddly) have boys, they are all intact, it's absolutely never been a topic of conversation.

i do however know someone who "had" to get circumcised at about 10. because it's such a rare thing to hear i do believe that it was necessary in his case

Originally Posted by MegBoz

Personally - I had one boyfriend who was intact (European) & he had problems & was considering have a circ as an adult. So it's not a total myth & I didnt' hear it from doctor's giving bad advice.

It's certainly not impossible but the incidence should be few and far between. I am very skeptical when I hear about it from an American, less from someone in the UK and even less from places like continental Europe. But there are cases from time to time, like other body parts and when there is a need we treat it as conservatively as possible.

[hakunangovi]

Considering that the rate of necessary circumcisions being performed in Scandinavia is something of the order of 1 in 60,000, if I recall reading that correctly, then I still believe that in the U.K. more boys are being circumcised than need be. There are articles at www.cirp.org that testify to this. The author was Rickwood.

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by hakunangovi

Considering that the rate of necessary circumcisions being performed in Scandinavia is something of the order of 1 in 60,000, if I recall reading that correctly, then I still believe that in the U.K. more boys are being circumcised than need be. There are articles at www.cirp.org that testify to this. The author was Rickwood.

So I hear. I vaguely recall hearing that the NHS had scolded doctors for having a clearly unnecessarily high rate of medical circumcision. They pointed to the statistics of other countries when asking why it was like 10x higher in the UK. So it's still a problem being worked on there. Which is why I would still be mildly skeptical.