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Vaccines cause diseases to mutate?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
This is kind of a spinoff from the poll thread.

I would like to know more about this but I can't find anything relevant using a google search, except for http://www.cidpusa.org/POLIONIGERIA.html.
Does anyone have a good source?

I know the overuse of antibiotics and even antibacterial soaps and things can cause disease resistance and possible mutation, but I didn't think vaccines worked that way. Please help me find info... I want to show my husband.
post #2 of 19
post #3 of 19
A mainstream ped even told us this regarding the pertussis vax.
post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 
Thanks! Looks like all the documented stuff is for the OPV Polio vaccine. Tayndrewsmama, I know you said pertussis, but I can't find any documentation of that anywhere.

If anyone knows of anymore, please post! I'm still researching as well.
post #5 of 19
This is what happens in serotype replacement as well....the bacteria will mutate to step in and fill the void left by the erdaication of the bacteria from the vaccine.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20825107/

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...37725/abstract

Quote:
We noted no reduction of AOM episodes in the pneumococcal vaccine group compared with controls (intention-to-treat analysis: rate ratio 1·25, 95% CI 0·99—1·57). Although nasopharyngeal carriage of pneumococci of serotypes included in the conjugate-vaccine was greatly reduced after pneumococcal vaccinations, immediate and complete replacement by non-vaccine pneumococcal serotypes took place.
bolding mine
post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuzzmom View Post
Thanks! Looks like all the documented stuff is for the OPV Polio vaccine. Tayndrewsmama, I know you said pertussis, but I can't find any documentation of that anywhere.

If anyone knows of anymore, please post! I'm still researching as well.
I am sorry. I will see what I can find. This was told to us about 5 1/2 years ago or so when we had a huge pertussis outbreak and I was asking about the vaccinated kids (since they were the only one who got it) and the doc said that viruses mutate to survive and the 'old' pertussis had to change because of the vaccine to survive. Oh course, he could have said this because he didn't want to believe that a vaccine couldn't work either.
post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama View Post
I am sorry. I will see what I can find. This was told to us about 5 1/2 years ago or so when we had a huge pertussis outbreak and I was asking about the vaccinated kids (since they were the only one who got it) and the doc said that viruses mutate to survive and the 'old' pertussis had to change because of the vaccine to survive. Oh course, he could have said this because he didn't want to believe that a vaccine couldn't work either.
No need to apologize! I'm just looking for something a little more concrete that I can pass on.

Thanks again, all.
post #8 of 19
Vaccines are having an impact on disease evolution. Sometimes directly by mutations, reverting to virulence, sometimes by pressure driven evolution, sometimes by pressure on a specific pathogen, as seen in serotype replacement and disease replacement reduction in one gives room for increase and selection in another. Some of these might be of interest.


1 Vaccine-induced escape mutant of Hepatits B virus.

2 Mutations within the S gene of Hepatitis B Virus Transmitted from Mother to Babies Immunized with Hepatitis B Immune Globulin and Vaccine

3 Vaccine- and hepatitis B immune globulin- induced escape mutations of hepatitis B virus surface antigen

4 Prevalence of vaccine-induced escape mutants of hepatitis B virus in the adult population in China: A prospective study in 176 restaurant employees

5 Infections by hepatitis B surface antigen gene mutants in Europe and North America

6 Detection of Hepatitis B Surface Gene Mutation in Carrier Children with or without Immunoprophylaxis at Birth
Quote:
These observations indicate that immune pressure exerted by immunoprophylaxis at birth may select for a mutant virus.
7 Evolution of the oral polio vaccine strains in humans occurs by both mutation and intramolecular recombination.
Quote:
In a companion study, some highly modified vaccine-associated case isolates were found to be not only multisite mutants, but also intramolecular recombinants of the vaccine strains.
8
Quote:
The clinical presentations were characterised by fever, myalgia, headache, and confusion, followed by severe multisystemic illnesses. Three patients died. Vaccine-related variants of yellow fever virus were found in plasma and cerebrospinal fluid of one vaccinee.
Quote:
The clinical features, their temporal association with vaccination, recovery of vaccine-related virus, antibody responses, and immunohistochemical assay collectively suggest a possible causal relation between the illnesses and yellow fever vaccination.
9 Examination of the selective pressures on a live PRRS vaccine virus
Quote:
The cDNA sequencing of the 20 vaccine virus revertants identified two single nucleotide mutations located in ORF5 and in ORF6 that we suggest are involved or at least linked to the attenuation of the vaccine virus and to the subsequent reversion to virulence.
10 Avian coronavirus infectious bronchitis attenuated live vaccines undergo selection of subpopulations and mutations following vaccination

11 Natural Selection for rash-forming genotypes of the varicella-zoster vaccine detected within immunized human hosts

12 Effects of Vaccine Use in the Evolution of Mexican Lineage H5N2 Avian Influenza Virus
Quote:
Though clinical signs were not observed with these LP viruses in experimental conditions, the shedding of H5 subtype LP viruses is of concern because of the potential for transmission to naïve flocks and the possibility of mutation to the HP form of the virus...Our study confirms the previous finding that chickens can be protected from clinical disease resulting from HPAI challenge even with a high degree of antigenic difference (Table 5). However, the level of virus shedding in the trachea correlated with the antigenic differences of vaccine and challenge strains. This discrepancy likely reflects the fact that vaccines for AI do not prevent infection but that antibodies in the bloodstream may effectively prevent the systemic phase of disease caused by HPAI viruses.
13 Polymorphism in the Bordetella pertussis Virulence Factors P.69/Pertactin and Pertussis Toxin in The Netherlands: Temporal Trends and Evidence for Vaccine-Driven Evolution
Quote:
These results suggest that vaccination has selected for strains which are antigenically distinct from vaccine strains.
14 Imperfect vaccines and the evolution of pathogen virulence
Quote:
Vaccines rarely provide full protection from disease. Nevertheless, partially effective (imperfect) vaccines may be used to protect both individuals and whole populations1, 2, 3. We studied the potential impact of different types of imperfect vaccines on the evolution of pathogen virulence (induced host mortality) and the consequences for public health. Here we show that vaccines designed to reduce pathogen growth rate and/or toxicity diminish selection against virulent pathogens. The subsequent evolution leads to higher levels of intrinsic virulence and hence to more severe disease in unvaccinated individuals. This evolution can erode any population-wide benefits such that overall mortality rates are unaffected, or even increase, with the level of vaccination coverage. In contrast, infection-blocking vaccines induce no such effects, and can even select for lower virulence. These findings have policy implications for the development and use of vaccines that are not expected to provide full immunity, such as candidate vaccines for malaria4.
15 Microarray analysis of evolution of RNA viruses: Evidence of circulation of virulent highly divergent vaccine-derived polioviruses

16 Mapping the Antigenic and Genetic Evolution of Influenza Virus
Quote:
Further, this approach offers a route to predicting the relative success of emerging strains, which could be achieved by quantifying the combined effects of population level immune escape and viral fitness on strain evolution.
17 CDC-
Quote:
In The Netherlands, as in many other western countries, pertussis vaccines have been used extensively for more than 40 years. Therefore, it is conceivable that vaccine-induced immunity has affected the evolution of B. pertussis. Consistent with this notion, pertussis has reemerged in The Netherlands, despite high vaccination coverage. Further, a notable change in the population structure of B. pertussis was observed in The Netherlands subsequent to the introduction of vaccination in the 1950s. Finally, we observed antigenic divergence between clinical isolates and vaccine strains, in particular with respect to the surface-associated proteins pertactin and pertussis toxin. Adaptation may have allowed B. pertussis to remain endemic despite widespread vaccination and may have contributed to the reemergence of pertussis in The Netherlands.
18 Variation in the Bordetella pertussis Virulence Factors Pertussis Toxin and Pertactin in Vaccine Strains and Clinical Isolates in Finland

19 Imperfect vaccination: some epidemiological and evolutionary consequences.
Quote:
An aim of some vaccination programmes is to reduce the prevalence of an infectious disease and ultimately to eradicate it. We show that eradication success depends on the type of vaccine as well as on the vaccination coverage. Vaccines that reduce the parasite within-host growth rate select for higher parasite virulence and this evolution may both increase the prevalence of the disease and prevent disease eradication. By contrast, vaccines that reduce the probability of infection select against virulence and may lead more easily to eradication. In some cases, epidemiological feedback on parasite evolution yields an evolutionary bistable situation where, for intermediate vaccination coverage, parasites can evolve towards either high or low virulence, depending on the initial conditions. These results have practical implications for the design and use of imperfect vaccines in public- and animal-health programmes.
20 Origin and evolution of Georgia 98 (GA98), a new serotype of avian infectious bronchitis virus
Quote:
Together with virus neutralization data, it appears that GA98 arose from immune selection caused by DE072 vaccine use.
21 Evolution of Streptococcus pneumoniae Serotypes and Antibiotic Resistance in Spain: Update (1990 to 1996)

22 The out of Africa model of varicella-zoster virus evolution: single nucleotide polymorphisms and private alleles distinguish Asian clades from European/North American clades

23 Selection of Virus Variants and Emergence of Virus Escape Mutants after Immunization with an Epitope Vaccine

24 Impact of the Pneumococcal Conjugate Vaccine on Serotype Distribution and Antimicrobial Resistance of Invasive Streptococcus pneumoniae Isolates in Dallas, TX, Children From 1999 Through 2005
Quote:
Conclusions: In Dallas, heptavalent pneumococcal conjugate vaccine reduced the incidence of IPD from 1999 to 2005 by reducing the incidence of vaccine-type disease. NVT serotypes, particularly 19A, were prevalent and more resistant to antimicrobials in 2004 and 2005.
25
Quote:
Conclusions.http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/na1...ities/2003.gifIntroduction of PCV7 into the routine infant immunization schedule in a community with a high prevalence of antimicrobial‐resistant pneumococci appears to reduce transmission of PCV7 vaccine serotypes and COT‐NS pneumococci but has no impact on overall carriage of pneumococci or carriage of PCN‐NS pneumococci.
26
Quote:
Conclusions: PPE in the post-PCV-7 era is more common, representing one-third of the IPD in children in UT. PPE is associated with significant morbidity and mortality. Serotype 1 remains the most common cause of PPE, but serotypes 3 and 19A are emerging.
27 Levofloxacin-Resisitant Invasive Streptococcus pnuemonaie in the United States: Evidence for Clonal Spread and the Impact of Conjugate Pneumomoccal Vaccine
Quote:
In conclusion, our study found a higher proportion of fluoroquinolone-resistant isolates related to the international clones than has been described in other studies (3, 9, 20). The introduction of the conjugate pneumococcal vaccine in 2000 and the demonstrated impact on the pneumococcal population and distribution of serotypes in adults (40) may have changed the course of an upward trend in fluoroquinolone resistance among invasive isolates, leading to the observed decrease in resistance in 2002, by reducing the absolute numbers of levofloxacin-resistant isolates within vaccine serotypes. Among vaccine serotypes, however, we found a continuously increasing resistance rate reaching 1.0% in 2002. Ongoing surveillance is needed to closely monitor the further evolution of fluoroquinolone resistance in this era of conjugate pneumococcal vaccine use.
28 Incidence of Pneumococcal Disease Due to Non-Pneumococcal Conjugate Vaccine (PCV7) Serotypes in the United States during the Era of Widespread PCV7 Vaccination, 1998-2004
Quote:
Widespread use of pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV7) resulted in decreases in invasive disease among children and elderly persons. The benefits may be offset by increases in disease due to serotypes not included in the vaccine (hereafter, “nonvaccine serotypes”). We evaluated the effect of PCV7 on incidence of disease due to nonvaccine serotypes.
29 Increased Antimicrobial Resistance Among Nonvaccine Serotypes of Streptococcus pneumoniae in the Pediatric Population After Introduction of 7-Valent Pneumococcal Vaccine in the United States
Quote:
Conclusions: The proportion of S. pneumoniae isolates from U.S. pediatric patients covered by PCV7 decreased substantially in the 4 years after vaccine introduction. However, resistance to commonly used antimicrobials, including β-lactams and macrolides, as well as multidrug-resistant strains increased significantly among respiratory tract isolates of NVS.
30 CDC-
Quote:
In contrast, pneumococcal conjugate vaccine studies show considerable evidence of serotype replacement, as measured by nasopharyngeal carriage of nonvaccine type organisms. Increases in the carriage of nonvaccine serotypes have occurred in three major ongoing clinical trials of pneumococcal conjugate vaccines. In Gambia, carriage of nonvaccine serotypes was 79% in children receiving three doses of a pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (compared with 42.5% in controls) (5). In trials of a 9-valent vaccine in South Africa, carriage of nonvaccine serotypes increased from 21% in controls to 39% in vaccine recipients (6).
31 Strain replacement in an epidemic model with super-infection and perfect vaccination

32 Vaccine-induced pathogen strain replacement: what are the mechanisms?
Quote:
Vaccination, which intensifies and modifies selection by protecting hosts against one or more pathogen strains, can drive the emergence of new dominant pathogen strains—a phenomenon called vaccine-induced pathogen strain replacement.
33 Commensals Upon Us
Quote:
A battle to control and curtail bacterial infectious diseases is being waged in our hospitals and communities through antibiotic therapies and vaccines targeting specific species. But what effects do these interventions have on the epidemiology of infections caused by the organisms that are part of our natural microbial flora? Gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria appear as new disease agents from among commensal flora. These include vancomycin resistant enterococci (VRE), community-associated methicillin resistant Staphylococcus aureus (CA-MRSA), non-vaccine invasive serotypes of Streptococcus pneumoniae, new strains of non-type b Haemophilus influenzae and multi-drug resistant Escherichia coli. These examples illustrate how clinical improvements and widespread use and misuse of antibiotics have pushed evolution, allowing normally non-pathogenic strains to become infectious disease threats to human health.
34
Quote:
Introduction of Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) conjugate vaccines in late 1980s–early 1990s made a dramatic effect on the incidence of invasive Hib disease among children in many industrialized countries with routine Hib immunization programs. However, cases of vaccine failure and an increased susceptibility to invasive Hib as well as non-type b H. influenzae disease have been consistently reported among individuals with various congenital and acquired immunodeficiencies. Remarkably, in the 21st century, diseases due to non-type b strains of H. influenzae are becoming relatively more frequent than before. Despite the overall successful immunization against Hib, some indigenous populations, i.e. Australian Aboriginal and North American Indian children still experience increased rates of invasive H. influenzae disease. In order to monitor the evolving nature of invasive H. influenzae disease, carefully documented surveillance data is required to capture the true magnitude of the problem. Developing new vaccines against non-type b H. influenzae is a potential solution to protect some vulnerable populations against the invasive disease.
35 Effect of Community-Wide Conjugate Pneumococcal Vaccine Use in Infancy on Nasopharyngeal Carriage through 3 Years of Age
Quote:
Conclusion.http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/na1...ities/2003.gifCommunity‐wide PnCRM7 vaccination in infancy reduces the prevalence of vaccine‐type carriage and increases the prevalence of nonvaccine‐type carriage through at least 3 years of age.
36 Human polymicrobial infections
Quote:
Recently, Gili Regev-Yochay (JAMA 2004; 292: 716—20) and Debby Bogaert (Lancet 2004; 363: 1871—72), and their colleagues, suggested another interaction: microbial interference—the ability of Streptococcus pneumoniae carriage to protect against Staphylococcus aureus carriage, and the inverse effect of pneumococcal conjugate vaccination on the increased carriage of Staph aureus and Staph-aureus-related disease. Strep pneumoniae carriage protected against Staph aureus carriage, and the bacterial interference could be disrupted by vaccinating children with pneumococcal conjugate vaccines that reduced nasopharyngeal carriage of vaccine-type Strep pneumoniae.
post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 
OMG! You are a superstar. This is perfect, THANK YOU!!
post #10 of 19
Happy to share. If you go on google scholar and search for vaccine + mutation or vaccine + evolution or even get more specific with certain diseases and vaccine combos you're sure to find more.
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuzzmom View Post
This is kind of a spinoff from the poll thread.

I would like to know more about this but I can't find anything relevant using a google search, except for http://www.cidpusa.org/POLIONIGERIA.html.
Does anyone have a good source?

I know the overuse of antibiotics and even antibacterial soaps and things can cause disease resistance and possible mutation, but I didn't think vaccines worked that way. Please help me find info... I want to show my husband.
The WHO website I read about polio mentioned that it can happen with the Oral Polio Vaccine (OPV), the drops. That was also the vaccine that could cause polio in a child, because it uses live but weakened virus. If they still offered it in the U.S. when DS was being vaxxed, I would have refused the OPV and insisted on the IPV (injected) instead. The IPV uses dead virus and does not pose the risk of causing polio.

What I was reading indicated that the mutated polio happened when children were undervaccinated, meaning that they began a course of vaccine and did not finish it out (much like stopping antibiotics too early).

OPV was discontinued in the U.S. because of these risks somewhere ~2001 or so, for many of these reasons. It is still used in some developing countries, but I don't remember whether it was for cost, distribution, or some other reasons.
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstar View Post
The WHO website I read about polio mentioned that it can happen with the Oral Polio Vaccine (OPV), the drops. That was also the vaccine that could cause polio in a child, because it uses live but weakened virus. If they still offered it in the U.S. when DS was being vaxxed, I would have refused the OPV and insisted on the IPV (injected) instead. The IPV uses dead virus and does not pose the risk of causing polio.

What I was reading indicated that the mutated polio happened when children were undervaccinated, meaning that they began a course of vaccine and did not finish it out (much like stopping antibiotics too early).

OPV was discontinued in the U.S. because of these risks somewhere ~2001 or so, for many of these reasons. It is still used in some developing countries, but I don't remember whether it was for cost, distribution, or some other reasons.
My understanding is the virus can mutate in the gut of the vaccinated and then be shed in the stool. It doesn't have anything to do with being undervaccinated, though they are blaming those not vaccinated for the virus then circulating and sometimes further mutating.

This link has more info on vaccine-derived polioviruses. And using the opv instead of the ipv is because eradication wouldn't be possible with ipv, and cost, and the fact that any volenteer can administer the opv, while the ipv has to be given by a health care professional. The global polio eradication people are very proud they've had two million volunteers deployed at once to go door to door vaccinating children. If two million people from another country swooped my neighborhood and came knocking at my door to coerce a vaccine into my child I would not be happy. Would you?
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen View Post
And using the opv instead of the ipv is because eradication wouldn't be possible with ipv, and cost, and the fact that any volenteer can administer the opv, while the ipv has to be given by a health care professional. The global polio eradication people are very proud they've had two million volunteers deployed at once to go door to door vaccinating children. If two million people from another country swooped my neighborhood and came knocking at my door to coerce a vaccine into my child I would not be happy. Would you?
If I lived in the era where I watched children go on iron lung machines due to the disease, and they were able to prevent it, I surely would. Due to forum rules, I will leave it at that.
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstar View Post
If I lived in the era where I watched children go on iron lung machines due to the disease, and they were able to prevent it, I surely would. Due to forum rules, I will leave it at that.
Yes, I understand this, but this isn't the time of iron lung machines. If I were a parent to young children then I may just have been one of those parents clamoring for the vaccine too. I'm sure it was a very worrisome time. We all want to protect our children the best way we know. According to the CDC less than 1% of polio cases are paralytic, most of those less than 1% recover completely. The CDC estimates that the ratio of inapparent (asymptomatic or flu like symptoms) to paralytic illness vary from 50:1 to 1,000:1 (usually 200:1). Children in other countries who contract polio aren't living in iron lungs, this is a thing of the past. Don't get me wrong, I do not want my child or any child to suffer, of course. Who does? But the Global Eradication Initiative bothers me on an ethical level. The are trying to eradicate a virus. Any harm done in the process is made okay by the rationalization that perhaps in the future no child will ever get polio virus again. They are forcing vaccines on children. They are giving children 4-5 vaccines + whenever possible. If they were going over to educate and give choice and distribute vaccines to those parents that want them, sure. Their efforts have caused mutant polio virus which is much more virulent, causing an increased # of parylitic vs inapparent cases. They blame the not vaccinated. This is not okay.
post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen View Post
But the Global Eradication Initiative bothers me on an ethical level. The are trying to eradicate a virus. Any harm done in the process is made okay by the rationalization that perhaps in the future no child will ever get polio virus again. They are forcing vaccines on children. They are giving children 4-5 vaccines + whenever possible. If they were going over to educate and give choice and distribute vaccines to those parents that want them, sure. Their efforts have caused mutant polio virus which is much more virulent, causing an increased # of parylitic vs inapparent cases. They blame the not vaccinated. This is not okay.
What I read blamed the partially vaccinated. Point being, if you choose to get a vaccine, finish out the course for that disease if you can (no severe reactions). Each disease ought to be an all-or-nothing thing. Choosing none is a valid option.
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstar View Post
What I read blamed the partially vaccinated. Point being, if you choose to get a vaccine, finish out the course for that disease if you can (no severe reactions). Each disease ought to be an all-or-nothing thing. Choosing none is a valid option.
Do you remember the source of this information? I just haven't seen this anywhere. If it is true, it would be an important thing to know. I'd really appreciate any links or websites to search if you remember where you read it.
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstar View Post
What I read blamed the partially vaccinated. Point being, if you choose to get a vaccine, finish out the course for that disease if you can (no severe reactions). Each disease ought to be an all-or-nothing thing. Choosing none is a valid option.
Most people who do not finish the series of a vaccine stop due to a reaction, or to educating themselves about the possible dangers. I don't know anyone who says gee let me give my LO half of the series and then stop. I believe when parents set out to make a choice they see it as an all or nothing thing. No parent sets out to get 1 dose of something and then stop, They stop for a reason.
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen View Post
Do you remember the source of this information? I just haven't seen this anywhere. If it is true, it would be an important thing to know. I'd really appreciate any links or websites to search if you remember where you read it.
It's the WHO page, "What is vaccine-derived polio?"
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstar View Post
What I was reading indicated that the mutated polio happened when children were undervaccinated, meaning that they began a course of vaccine and did not finish it out (much like stopping antibiotics too early).
They indicate the spread of circulating vaccine-derived polio is because of under or not vaccinated children. Btw, as an aside, do you know what exactly qualifies as undervaccinated? This varies by country, but in some countries they are expecting 5+ doses by 12-18 months, with some children receiving as many as 10-20 doses between the routine vaccines and the pulse doses. The mutation can occur with any dose of the vaccine, but they are saying the first dose probably carries the greatest risk. I don't know the truth of this. The child receives the dose of oral polio, then the weakened virus replicates in the gut and is shed in the stool, sometimes contacts will contract the weakened virus also. But sometimes the virus reverts to virulence in the vaccinated's gut and can cause paralytic polio in the vaccine recipient (but not necessarily) or a contact. And then there are the circulating vaccine derived polioviruses cVDPV, the Sabin-like, the immunodeficient iVDPV, and the AVDPV of ambigous origin, I'm sure I'm probably leaving something out here, it's late. This link has a little bit more detailed info.
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